Slipform Stone walls

18268 Views 33 Replies 14 Participants Last post by kennyb79, Nov 20, 2010

Sparticle

Discussion Starter · Nov 30, 2008

We are working on the plans for building our house next spring. We want to do the slipform stone wall method with insulation board sandwiched in since we have rocks and time. I searched on here and found people that have built outbuildings or greenhouses, but not an actual house. I'd love to hear about the length of time it took and any problems you had.

Yes, I know it is going to take a long time, maybe 2-3 months or more just to get the walls up and I don't want to hear that poured concrete walls are so much faster. I also don't want to do stack block because I can only comfortably pick up 50 lbs, plus I don't want to use all that concrete.

We've seen the videos, read the books, but don't know anyone personally that has done it. If the code inspector allows it, this is the method we want to use.

I think we are going to have about 7 months of weather that will permit building. It's a simple rectangle house about 1,400 sq feet. In addition, there are 3 small interior walls that might be built the same way to function as sheer walls along the bermed North wall, but without the insulation sandwiched in.

I'm guessing 3 months for the walls with two of us working on it and friends coming to help when they can? I'd like to say 6 weeks, but I know weather and problems happen. Other people take years to finish their homes, but both of us will be able to work on the building full time. Do you think in 7 months we'd be able to get the foundation, walls, roof and floors done (floors are earthen and I'd rather not do in the winter)? Then we'd have the winter if we needed to finish the interior.

Also, I can't find any natural building forums that aren't cob related. Know of any?

oh, has anyone done a slip form stone wall and then bermed up to it with earth?

update: we have also considered doing the insulation to the outside, slipform stone wall to the inside. Then finish the outside with board and batten since we have a guy right behind us with a saw mill that could cut the wood.

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21 - 34 of 34 Posts

artificer

· #21 · Dec 13, 2008

Sparticle said:
...I didn't know if there is a certain "stone saturation" point where the wall is weakened by too many stones and too little concrete. But, I do want to stretch that concrete out as much as I can since the stones are free.

There is no "stone saturation point". As long as the spaces between the rocks are filled with cement, you're good to go. You don't have to do the flat face rock in the form. The highest percentage of stone you can used is flat dressed stone, and mortar them together like bricks.

Normally aggregate is added to the cement. It adds strength, and takes up volume. The maximum size of the aggregate is based on the thickness of the stab/structure being poured. You don't want the aggregate to bridge, and leave voids. What you need to do is to manually add the large aggregate (rocks) as you go. I would lay a thick bed of cement, drop in the rocks, and tamp them down until they hit the bottom/earlier rocks. They should bed themselves, and squeeze out the excess cement. You should get good contact between the cement and the rocks. Add more cement, and then more rocks. Repeat ad nausium...

Michael

Sparticle

Discussion Starter · #22 · Dec 13, 2008

Thanks Michael.

I heard back from Mr. Ilpel and he mentioned that his video had not gotten good reviews on smartflix. I went and checked it out, he was right! Some really bad reviews. I really enjoyed the video, no I can't build a house watching it. It was just an introduction and he says that, he says it's to accompany his book. One reviewer even made fun of how he spoke. He does talk differently than I do, but I live in a different region of the world than he does.

Beaners

· #23 · Dec 13, 2008

I wish we were closer, I'd love to work on this project!

Kayleigh

texican

· #24 · Dec 13, 2008

Sparticle said:
Thanks Michael.

I heard back from Mr. Ilpel and he mentioned that his video had not gotten good reviews on smartflix. I went and checked it out, he was right! Some really bad reviews. I really enjoyed the video, no I can't build a house watching it. It was just an introduction and he says that, he says it's to accompany his book. One reviewer even made fun of how he spoke. He does talk differently than I do, but I live in a different region of the world than he does.

Well, heaven forbid, if someone talked funnysome, I wouldn't take his advice either... NOT! Some crazy people in this world. I'll have to look at his video...

Sparticle

Discussion Starter · #25 · Dec 13, 2008

******* said:
I wish we were closer, I'd love to work on this project!

Kayleigh

Well we'd love to see you again if you are ever back in this area. We have a guest room and there's an RV on the property. So if you are ever inclined, we are here.

Lucky Dog Farm

· #26 · Dec 22, 2008

Sparticle: Where in NY are you located? Never posted here before, but I'm also planning on slip form this summer. Will start building forms after the new year. Besides Elpel site, we also have a book by Karl Schwenke called build your own house which is all about slip form, and the Nearings book. We are dealing with backfill on the north side as well. I think Dani Gruber dealt with that on Elpel's site. We are trying to incorporate some design elements from thenaturalhome.com We were going to do drystack, but decided against it use the rocks we have. Bought all our southfacing windows at an auction last week for 82 dollars. We live in Steuben County. If you near maybe there are some things we can collaborate on. Trying to get a big work party set for the weekend around the summer solistice.

Best hopes

Ed

Sparticle

Discussion Starter · #27 · Dec 23, 2008

Hello Ed, I'll send you a PM with our location. We were also going to do dry stack and after speaking with an engineer who does bridges we decided not to even though rob roy doesn't have a problem with it. We like the slip form method better now too.

I've got 2 more books coming, hopefully this week; but I think I have the design down. I finished drawing the elevations for the engineer to review, but have to start over because I had another idea on the inside and that changed the windows.

The south facing windows I"ve got to 11% of the total square footage of the house, I believe the target is 7 - 12% (going off of memory)

This will be our first time building a house, we'd love to work together with you guys if we are close enough. we're both probably going to need help getting the roof up!

ok, i'll PM you now.

Lucky Dog Farm

· #28 · Dec 24, 2008

Sparticle:

Didn't receive any e-mails. I'll catch up with you in a couple of days, since we are going out of town until around the 30th. Would be more than happy to help with the roof if you are close enough. There is another couple near us that I talked about slip form with and they are conisdering it.

Talk to you soon,

Ed

Live Simply So Others Can Simply Live

Sparticle

Discussion Starter · #29 · Dec 24, 2008

Lucky Dog Farm said:
Sparticle:

Didn't receive any e-mails. I'll catch up with you in a couple of days, since we are going out of town until around the 30th. Would be more than happy to help with the roof if you are close enough. There is another couple near us that I talked about slip form with and they are conisdering it.

Talk to you soon,

Ed

Live Simply So Others Can Simply Live

I sent you a private message on this board. Sorry I may have said email. Look up at the top of the page here and you should see it.

Just got my Living homes book in the mail today along with "Design for water" and "The stonebuilders primer". I'm going to try to get through these books in the next two weeks.

Sounds like we might have a little slip form building group forming!:clap:

Lucky Dog Farm

· #30 · Dec 24, 2008

Duhhh. Got it and looked at your blog real quick. Lots of similarities. Root cellars, maple syrup etc. I think we're closer than two hours. Takes me about 40 minutes due east to get to Ithaca. Our town has no code enforcer, so folks pretty much just do what they want. We are going to call our place seasonal, which makes for lax standards. We won't run electric which makes things even more lax. Before you commit to buying anything for your place check with us. Some of our local friends are really really good at finding building materials for next to nothing. Stuff like doors, trusses etc.
We are actually heading to PR this afternoon. There are plantations down there that run on nothing but hydro and since we farm full time, this is the only time of the year we can get off.

Currently we have The Good House Book, Building with Stone, and Stonework Techniques and Projects in addition to the others already mentioned.

There's also a pretty good permaculture group in Ithaca that we know, which may be of help. I know last year they had a summer program and part of the whole deal was they were up at eco-village helping them build there root cellar.

Yeah this may work.

Best hopes

Ed

Live Simply So Others Can Simply Live.

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Sparticle

Discussion Starter · #31 · Dec 24, 2008

Lucky Dog Farm said:
Duhhh. Got it and looked at your blog real quick. Lots of similarities. Root cellars, maple syrup etc. I think we're closer than two hours. Takes me about 40 minutes due east to get to Ithaca. Our town has no code enforcer, so folks pretty much just do what they want. We are going to call our place seasonal, which makes for lax standards. We won't run electric which makes things even more lax. Before you commit to buying anything for your place check with us. Some of our local friends are really really good at finding building materials for next to nothing. Stuff like doors, trusses etc.
We are actually heading to PR this afternoon. There are plantations down there that run on nothing but hydro and since we farm full time, this is the only time of the year we can get off.

Currently we have The Good House Book, Building with Stone, and Stonework Techniques and Projects in addition to the others already mentioned.

There's also a pretty good permaculture group in Ithaca that we know, which may be of help. I know last year they had a summer program and part of the whole deal was they were up at eco-village helping them build there root cellar.

Yeah this may work.

Best hopes

Ed

Live Simply So Others Can Simply Live.

It's go to hear that we are relatively close. It'd be good to find out more about the permaculture group. We know of a green building group though we've had little contact with them.

DH is very interested in hydro since we live on a creek and we've gotten some old articles from a friend of ours that has been collecting over the years on these types of topics. He's the only person I know with more books than me! right now my couch, floor and end table look like a home building library.

We drove out to see an earth bermed house today but it was McMansion-ish and didn't impress me at all.

It's exciting that there are several of us starting up in the spring. I know Mr. Elpel will want to hear about our progress as he's said as much.

kennyb79

· #32 · Nov 9, 2010

I am new to this site, but I was wondering if anybody built their own slipform house like it said in the beginning of the post. I started mine in 2005 and finished it and moved in 2008. .it took a while between working a full time job and spending time with my family, but I loved it and would offer any tips, advice or questions from anybody else on this post.

silverbackMP

· #33 · Nov 10, 2010 (Edited)

I personally don't like the way slipform looks (sloppy). Why not just lay the rock up in a traditional rubble pattern (always returning to the level every few courses) using either lime or cement motar?

I've considered doing something similar to what the OP was talking about--from the inside out: 4-6 in of veneer (not thin veneer), 6" cement block, ties and 3-4 in of closed cell spray foam, 1 inch air space, 6" cement block, 4-6" of of veneer.

The two inner blocks would be tied together with double wall masonry ties and the 1 in of air space would have weep drains to the outside.

Also, copious amounts of concrete and/or motar and rebar in the two cement block courses.

With a basement, I would go with 12" block on the outside both for strength and to provide a brickledge up to just before grade. Also, don't forget drainage--weep tiles and plenty of crushed stone (river rock pebbles would be preferable) and landscape fabric.

I would probably do a couple of interior walls in masonry as well to provide more stability (i.e. butresses).

I doubt this would save any over stick frame (probably be alot more $) but it would be hell for stout.

Roof would (ideally) be timberframed rafters and purlins with Insulated Stuctural Panels and standing seam metal roofing.

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kennyb79

· #34 · Nov 20, 2010

I have to agree with you that most slipform masonry walls seem rather
messy. But I did find one book that recommends putting a small bead of
sand against the face of the stone after you put it in the form, the
sand fills the front voids and keeps the concrete from oozing out,
making it a lot neater. Also, many of the books seem to use the stone as
just the face, this makes for a lot of concrete and rebar added, which
isn't cheap. When I built my house, my wall were 12" thick, I tried to
use rocks that were at least half as thick as my walls, that way I had a
combination of a "traditional" stone lays and the slipform technique. It
worksed out quite well. I did spend a fortune on rebar that I wouldn't
have needed if the walls were traditionallt layed up, but I just didn't
know if I had enough knowledge and skill to lay them this way. One thing
I will add, is the when I had all the outside walls done, I realized
that I was going to walk into a stone house externally, that had nothing
but druwall or wood on the inside. So I created a huge rock wall in the
center where my stairs are...I spend many an evening sitting on the
couch marveling at the work involved in that wall...I find it very
relaxing, now.

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