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Just saw this movie (please... I am NOT a fan of Micheal Moore, watched it on a friends insistance) and I would like to hear from those that live outside the USA. Especially from those that MM held up as an example of free medical, france, England and Cuba. Is your medical really "free"? Is there a lag time between needing medical help and actually getting it? Do you have to wait months for needed sugeries? MY DH seems to think that this movie is propoganga for Hillary Clinton should she make it into the WhiteHouse. And he could be right, MM definately fawned and drooled all over her in the movie...
 

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I am from Canada but live here. My family is there.

My father and aunt both had colon cancer and passed in the last few years. They did not like going to the doctor so they got treatment to late.

They did however get wonderfull and timley treatment after diagnosis. Both had several stays in the hospital. Never a wait getting treatment or operations. I think they had a small daily fee for the hospital stays( 15.00- 25.00)other than that no out of pocket expenses. My father was brought home to die( his choice) and had daily nursing care and all the medical equipment support he needed. He had semi private rooms.

If I had the same treatment here I think we would lose our home.

You do have to wait for non life threatning surgeries but you also are not paying for it for the rest of your life.
 

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I'm from England and all of my family (aside from DH and our sons) are still there. The care isn't free as we pay taxes to cover it, but it is freely available to everyone (even visitors). My mother has colon cancer and has received top notch care at a first rate hospital - never a wait for anything. My sister is the only family member who has ever had to wait to get an appointment to see her doctor - she chose a very busy practise and sometimes couldn't get an appointment until the next day - that never happened to the rest of us. Both of our elder sons were born in England, the youngest was born in the US - if I found myself pregnant again I would be on the first flight back to England!

For dental care and prescriptions there is an additional cost to the patient (unless unemplyed, retired or under 16) but the cost has always been lower than the deductibles we have paid under our insurance in the US and the cost of that insurance has always been higher than the difference between taxes in the US and the UK.

I don't know anyone who has had elective surgery, I hear there are waiting lists for that, but people can avoid the waiting lists by going private. I have heard that in other countries you do not have that choice, which may or may not be true, but in England you always have that choice.
 

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painterswife said:
I am from Canada but live here...

...You do have to wait for non life threatning surgeries but you also are not paying for it for the rest of your life.
Actually, you are paying for it for the rest of your life. So is every other taxpayer there. Even the ones who never need to go to the doctor their whole lives. "Free" health care is not free. It is simply another burden placed on the backs of the tax payers.
 

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"Actually, you are paying for it for the rest of your life. So is every other taxpayer there. Even the ones who never need to go to the doctor their whole lives. "Free" health care is not free. It is simply another burden placed on the backs of the tax payers."

Yes that is true, but I do believe you end up paying alot less than you do here. No one stated it was free.
 

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Another good thing about the Canadian health care system is that you can not be denied coverage or lose your coverage because a "for profit" company has decided you are too expensive to cover.
 

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One of my horse trainers is from Ireland. Her family had this happen. Her father was in hospital and to be released that day, his name was confused with a patient scheduled for surgery and he was given anesthesia and died. Because of socialized medicine, they lost their main family bread winner, but recieved no compensation for the malpractice. While I don't agree with ridiculous insurance settlements, their family went from middle class to near poverty due to a gross error. I would worry about quality of care if there is no reprecussions to poor care.

Dianne
 

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buspete said:
Actually, you are paying for it for the rest of your life. So is every other taxpayer there. Even the ones who never need to go to the doctor their whole lives. "Free" health care is not free. It is simply another burden placed on the backs of the tax payers.
I don't know what the answer is to the health care issue, but it seem to me that the burden lies on our backs here in the US as well. Low income patients with medicare or whatever are supported by our tax dollars and uninsured patients, who cannot or do not pay, are supported by increased medical costs that are paid by our insurance or our out of pocket medical expenses.
 

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lynpea said:
Just saw this movie (please... I am NOT a fan of Micheal Moore, watched it on a friends insistance) and I would like to hear from those that live outside the USA. Especially from those that MM held up as an example of free medical, france, England and Cuba. Is your medical really "free"? Is there a lag time between needing medical help and actually getting it? Do you have to wait months for needed sugeries? MY DH seems to think that this movie is propoganga for Hillary Clinton should she make it into the WhiteHouse. And he could be right, MM definately fawned and drooled all over her in the movie...
Hi! I live in Finland, which is a socialist democratic country.

Our medical isn't free at all, but it is cheaper than American healthcare. I pay a 22 euro fee to use the doctor per year. Unless it's a women's health issue, you get those visits for free. 10 euros per lab fee when they take out blood and run tests.

I had a terrible infection in my wisdom teeth and it took me 3 months and 3 weeks to get an appointment for dental surgery. Heart surgery can take 6 months. It was 6 months for my FIL to get a leg surgery so he could move without being in pain. It takes 6 months to get a MRI here too.

I am able to get into the dentist (normal visit) within a week because I live in a small village. People who live in Helsinki have to wait up to 6 months to get a cavity filled in. They can't even book appointments to have their teeth cleaned.

My surgery was 110 euros and 15 euros for the meds.

It is true, you get what you pay for.

Katrina
 
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We're already paying for health care here. We're just not getting anything in return.

We already fund medicad and medicare. Wouldn't a more efficient system thats not backed by for PROFIT health insurance companies LESSEN our load? The health insurance lobbyist sure have one pulled over on us. Did you know that the big donor to several presidential candidates are the AMA and health insurance companies? Which back is the candidate going to scratch when they get elected?


Medical mistakes happen here, too. You can sue if you can convince a lawyer to take it on contingency. But that's another rant.
 

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I agree there Alaska!

I think the root of all of this is lawsuits and beurocracy. I am self employed and just recently bought insurance for myself and my daughter. My wife is unensureable because of preexisting conditions.

It was a tough decision, based on how much risk we percieved of a catstrophic injury or illness as I don't go to the doctor unless I really, really need to (last time they brought me in a wheelchair), and we had to calculate if it was better to just put the money that would otherwise go towards overpriced insurance aside and just pay for the doctor if I ever go to one or to pay for inurance that I may never need.

The last time I went to the doctor, I had injured myself with an axe. At the time I had insurance (from a "real" job LOL - group insurance is the only thing I miss about working for someone else). The bills for that incident were easily in the $15k range, but they managed to save my leg. That was 5 years ago, and if I had been on my own hook, I would have just been paying it off now. If this were a socilized medicine country, would it be fair to expect every other American to pitch in their hard-earned money to pay for my medical bills because I was an idiot and hit myself with an axe?

Private sector funding tends to mean better care (or at least better technology). People who need cutting edge life or death treatment come to Boston from all over the world. They only go to socialzed medicine countries for cheaper medication.
 

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"If this were a socilized medicine country, would it be fair to expect every other American to pitch in their hard-earned money to pay for my medical bills because I was an idiot and hit myself with an axe?"

Right now people with no children pay for education for others children. We pay for roads we don't drive on, for people who build homes that are flooded because they built next to the river, it goes on and on.

Would you rather pay a little for somene to go to the doctor early on in a illness when it is curable ( or less costly) or alot to try and save them when there is no hope?

No system is perfect but I always believed if we work together on the life and death issues, it would be a better world.
 

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Healthcare should be a right, not a privilage. I know hard-working people who don't quite qualify for govt assistance and who also can't afford insurance. If they get injured or sick, all they have worked for would be gone. That's not fair.

I myself have been personally screwed by my insurance company because of a stupid technicality. What would have been a $15 copay turned into $3000. They also refuse to even acknowledge my midwife's existance, even though they said they would cover her care before i sought it from her. I hate insurance companies and the insurance industry.
 

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largentdepoche said:
Hi! I live in Finland, which is a socialist democratic country.

Our medical isn't free at all, but it is cheaper than American healthcare. I pay a 22 euro fee to use the doctor per year. Unless it's a women's health issue, you get those visits for free. 10 euros per lab fee when they take out blood and run tests.

I had a terrible infection in my wisdom teeth and it took me 3 months and 3 weeks to get an appointment for dental surgery. Heart surgery can take 6 months. It was 6 months for my FIL to get a leg surgery so he could move without being in pain. It takes 6 months to get a MRI here too.

I am able to get into the dentist (normal visit) within a week because I live in a small village. People who live in Helsinki have to wait up to 6 months to get a cavity filled in. They can't even book appointments to have their teeth cleaned.

My surgery was 110 euros and 15 euros for the meds.

It is true, you get what you pay for.

Katrina
Katrina--here, you don't get it at all no matter how long you wait, unless you go into serious debt in the many $1000's of dollars.

You have it better. Believe me. At least you get care eventually.
 

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suburbanite said:
Katrina--here, you don't get it at all no matter how long you wait, unless you go into serious debt in the many $1000's of dollars.

You have it better. Believe me. At least you get care eventually.
That just isn't true - sorry. I had a little toothache last week that turned out to be a plaque tag at the root of the tooth. Called the dentist (who I hadn't seen in four years :nono: ) on Thursday morning, got an afternoon appointment. Theye examined me and arranged for me to come back Monday afternoon for a scaling. Now the work is done, and my insurance covered everything except possibly an antibiotic shot at the site (about $50 if it turns out my dental insurance doesn't cover it).
 

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My mom is a widow. My dad retired from one of the large 3 car companies. My mom gets SS and dads pension. About $2000 a month to live on total. She also gets medical from the company my dad worked for. She has Medicare and another insurance that picks up some of what Medicare doesn't pay plus meds with a copayment from my mom. Some is taken out of her pension check to cover some of this.

Next year they are changing their plan. Next year she will get $1800 from the company dad used to work for and she will have to pay all her med costs with that. She will still have Medicare since she is over 65. She will have to purchase whatever upgrade in Medicare we decide is best for her. Plus she will have to pay any copays that Medicare doesn't cover. If she wants dental coverage she will have to purchase that also.

My mom is 76yo. She is diabetic, has congestive heart failure, and is blind in one eye from glacoma. She has a balance problem and falls often. She lives on her own but it is getting to the point where she really shouldn't be living alone. I'd move her in with us but we still have 6 kids at home and no extra room right now. I'm her next of kin. She has no other children. (Well, I do have a sister but no one knows where she is. Another long story) As soon as my 20yodd and 19yodd move out I could move my mom in. But my daughters are going to our local community college so it will be at least another year before they can move out.

My mom takes 18 different meds a day, some of them taken more than once a day. She sees different doctors and all of them have said she needs everything she takes. Right now with the extra insurance she is keeping her head above water but I really don't know what will happen next year. I have heard that medicare only covers drugs up to a certain amount and then you are on your own.

Mom has been in the hospital 3 times already this year. She has been in rehab twice. I don't know about the hospital but with the rehab there is a copay of about $100 a day that Medicare does not pay. Her other insurance has picked up that extra $100 a day but next year there will be no extra insurance to do so. If this should happen again next year, where she needs to go from the hospital to rehab she can not! There is no way she could afford that copay and we are not in a posistion to help. We'd do it in a heart beat if we could!

I don't know what the answer to this is. I have always thought others shouldn't have to pay for our medical costs. I have always thought we should not rely on government. Now that I am being faced with it through my mom, I just don't know what I think any more.

Debi
 

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I read recently that the reason France's gasoline costs are so high is because a good portion of that cost goes to their "free" health care.
 

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The real "Sicko" is Micheal Moore, that clown is the worst sort of liberal/socialist. The movie was full of 1/2 truths, distortions, and plain lies, whole point of that "movie" is to push for a Federal, tax supported, one payer, health care system.

Do any of you really want the Feds in charge of, and the final arbiter of your health care needs and decisions? I darn sure don't. Before you answer that, ask yourself " what is the one thing the Federal govt. does really really well". Or at least well enough that you want to totally trust them with your health care?

Can you even start to imagine the huge, bloated, grossly inefficient bureaucracy that would be, or soon become?

Think about the political pandering that would take place, every candidate promising more and more, better and better care, anything to get elected.

Would you want to help pay for some gals face lift, or some convict's sex change operation? Between the pandering pols, the inevitable law suits by idiots wanting outrageous things, and wacked out judges don't discount the possibility of it happening. I feel certain in saying that soon, everyone, regardless of citizenship status or anything else, would be covered for anything they want.

And, if you think we've got immigration problems now, it ain't nothin compared to what it will shortly become if that abomination that Moore and other nutcases want comes to fruition.

Simply put this country can't afford it.
 
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