Should this dog be bred

Discussion in 'Homesteading Questions' started by sancraft, Mar 1, 2005.

  1. sancraft

    sancraft Well-Known Member

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    My german shepherd female is just mean. She's wonderful to us, very, very protective, but not good with any other animal or people that she decides she doesn't like (usually men only she doesn't like). She wasn't always this way. She turned mean after she viewed our house being burgularized and couldn't get out of her pen to stop it. Some people have suggested that I breed her to settle her down. I am seriously considering spaying her. Originally I wanted to breed her, as her conformation is great, but I don't want to pass along undesirable traits to her offspring. Would you breed this dog or would you spay?
     
  2. moonwolf

    moonwolf Well-Known Member

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    Not a good idea to breed a dog with temperment problems. What reason would you want to pass on this trait?
     

  3. longshadowfarms

    longshadowfarms Well-Known Member

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    Please don't breed this dog! The aggression may or may not be linked to the burglery and might also have come on anyway if that had not happened. There are way too many aggressive dogs out there. IMO temperament should be THE MOST IMPORTANT issue in ANY breeding program with ANY animal! I have lived through life with an aggressive dog and ended up making the heartbreaking decision to put him down. Please don't put someone else through that. It is a horrible thing to have to do.
     
  4. GoldenMom

    GoldenMom Well-Known Member

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    SPAY SPAY SPAY! Make your appointment for YESTERDAY!!!! The buglary may have just set off what is a temperment fault that was already present (though dormant). Decreasing the hormones may help decrease (but not by any means eliminate) the aggression. Breeding the dog to "calm it down" often has the reverse effect. The female dog can get really protective of the pups and may never recover from that. Breeding to correct a temperment fault is the worst reason I have ever heard to breed a dog! Good luck with her!

    Sarah
     
  5. frogmammy

    frogmammy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Spay! Why would you want to possibly end up with one grown dog and 10 puppies that bite? What good is a dog that looks great but could put someone in a hospital? And maybe cost you your home in a lawsuit?

    Mon
     
  6. Orville

    Orville Well-Known Member

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  7. jeannie242

    jeannie242 Well-Known Member

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    We have a aggressive Golden Retriever. She has a quick temper and has bit 3 times.
    She’s 4 years old. The first time she bit, my husband reached for her Elk bone to move it . She was a year old. The other times she bit she was going into heat .
    After the first time she bit, I went and spoke to the breeder. I was then told her parents were both a Bit snippy and had bit once or twice.
    I have no doubt that it was bred into her. I also think she was taken from her parents and siblings way too young. (5 weeks). We were so clueless that a good breeder would have never let this happen.
    We figured she was the breeder and she knew what was best for her Golden’s.
    She really missed out on lessons she needed to learn from her Mom.Such as the pecking order.
    So to answer your questions, Don’t breed an aggressive dog !
    My husband and I have our hands full. We can’t and don’t trust her around any child . Thank God ours are grown or we would have had to make the heartbreaking decision to put her down. We also live in the boonies and there is seldom any one around except family.
    She is a wonderful dog 95% of the time. She’s our baby and we love her to pieces .
    The times she’s bit, You can tell she just snaps and then she feels so horrible afterwards.
    I know people will say we should have put her down but its only us and we have learnt her personality and what honks her off.
    So we pick our battles, but I would never ever breed her. Good luck. Jeannie
     
  8. vickiesmom

    vickiesmom Well-Known Member

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    Please spay this dog...it is sad it wasn't put down a long time ago.
     
  9. Quint

    Quint Well-Known Member

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    Do not pass on bad genetics.

    We have far too many genetic trainwrecks running around causing havoc and mayhem as it is.
     
  10. doodles

    doodles Well-Known Member

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    Is this dog agressive to you and your family?
    German Shepherds are actually bred to be protective. If she is uncontrolable, that is your responsibility to have trained her. If she was not being a guardian as her breed standard dictates that would be just as much a fault as a LGD that would not protect its flock. It is a great responsibility to potential pet owners to research the breed that they are interested in and know its traits. Experiences mold the temperament and genetics contribute too but the way that you handle crisis is also a factor. You mentioned that she was very loving to you and your family. She seems to need more socialization and training for control. I am a breeder/trainer and know this breed very well.
    SOmetimes what is at first glance a vicious animal is a overly protective dog that needs to be trained and desensitized.
    As far as breeding-it won't help. Unless you are prepared to find good solid homes for 8-10 pups and know that they will have proper training -don't do it.
    The German Shepherd is one of the finest breeds of dog. If she is not being agressive to family members and is just being overly protective she just needs to be guided in to a more controlable mode.
    If she is agressive to you or other household members,she has a pack order problem and training can be more complicated. You must be respected as Alpha in your home.
     
  11. sancraft

    sancraft Well-Known Member

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    She's not aggressive to us at all. She is very protective of the girls and me and that's the only reason I didn't take her out for a long walk after feeding her beef laced with sleeping pills. I felt I'd be a better shot with a sleeping dog if you get my drift. I put a lot of training hours into her. She is very obedient and very smart. SHe trained quickly and easily. I gave her to a friend that owns a tree service and needed a lot dog. She was good at her job of guarding his equipment, but he wasn't taking good care of her, so I took her back (part to the agreement was he had to keep her shots current and keep her on premium food, which is what she was raised on.) I raised toy poodles for years and never bred any that had undesirable traits, physical or behaviorable. Those were always spayed or neutered and if the behavior problem was severe, the dog was culled. I didn't know if this trait in her was more environmental than hereditary. Her mother and father were wonderful animals, sweet and loving. Her mother, who had never been around cats, came to visit and one of my cats who thought she was dog walked right up to her and started rubbing around her legs and she just stood there, wagging her tail. Her father was a LGD and had a flock of sheep that he was responible for. All of her litter mates have turned out sweet and loving. It wasn't until after the robbery that she turned bad. Now she doesn't like men that looked like the one the robbed our house. Any white man with a full beard or white men in baseball caps is not okay. But she also will never be a LGD as she prefers to kill livestock rather than protect them. I guess I'll spay, which is the way I was leaning. She will be 5 on March 17th. The only reason I keep her is that I know she would protect us with her life. My youngest likes to go solo camping and with the dog, I feel she is safe. I also know she'll keep the coyotes a bay on the new land. We have bunches of them out there.
     
  12. longshadowfarms

    longshadowfarms Well-Known Member

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    Jeannie, there may be medications that can help control your dog's problem to some degree (if it is what it sounds like). The medications are the same as what is used on humans with bipolar disorder and take some work to find a dosage that works well. The problem will probably get worse as she gets older. I hope you will take into consideration the times others are around and will make plans to crate her or contain her when that happens. Good luck! It is a heartwrenching thing - you love the dog to pieces but recognize that she is a danger. I've been there but we had kids and the dog was 150 lb. We HAD to put him down.
     
  13. sancraft

    sancraft Well-Known Member

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    We put up warning signs galore. She is never, never, never off lead, unpenned or untied (using 2 chains with test weights of 450 lbs. each. one to collar and one to harness). Anytime she is in public, she is muzzled and at the vet, we wait in the car and bring her through the out door and directly into an exam room. And she loves the vet, go figure. She lays down and turns over and gives him kisses. All my other dogs and cats hate the vet. She also loves the postman. I think because the lady postal worker at out old house used to bring her doggie chocolates. :)
     
  14. MorrisonCorner

    MorrisonCorner Mansfield, VT for 200 yrs

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    I would spay her, because it is a myth that dogs "calm down" after having puppies. In my experience, it does exactly the opposite, and now you've got a 100 pound plus animal in your home who has young she is willing to defend. It is just asking for something bad to happen.

    And too, I agree with the poster who said you need to have 8-12 homes ready (like you have cash in hand) for those puppies. People who won't back out when the idea of getting a puppy turns into the reality of getting a puppy.

    The last thing is... you only have 1/2 of the equasion. You only have the female dog. Now, it is true, all it takes is one unneutered male.. but you already have a potential personality issue to pass on, so obviously you need to choose the mate very carefully. And you want a good rock solid male, with hip clearances and eye clearances. Someone who has such a dog, vetted by those tests, is probably a reputable breeder in her own right.

    And probably won't allow her male to breed with your female knowing that your female has issues because she won't want her kennel name appearing in the pedagrees.

    Besides... for all that it seems like a good idea on paper, raising 10 puppies to 8 weeks is a royal PITA. By 8 weeks golden retriever puppies are eating 3 cups of food a day, plus. That's 30 cups of food. Food goes in... food goes out... Not only are you buying expensive puppy food in 50 pound bags, you're shoveling the results off of every surface the puppies have access to.

    When we bought our puppy from one of the east's best breeders we looked at her set up which basically covers her entire house with zones, pens, gates, chain link fences to protect the dogs (against theft)... looked at each other and said "no WAY are we willing to work that hard!" And cheerfully paid her price.. cheap at twice the cost!

    Puppies are work... and they won't settle a dog at all.
     
  15. jeannie242

    jeannie242 Well-Known Member

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    Gotta disagree on this one...Its not her fault and we work with her daily on this issue.
    We are working with her on NILF and as I said 95 % of the time she is the sweetest thing.
    We love her like a child.
    If we had children around at all our decision would have been different, but its just the hubby and I and our nearest neighbor is miles away.
    We are getting her spayed and would never breed her, but I would never kill her.
     
  16. mightybooboo

    mightybooboo Well-Known Member

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    I think if she is aggressive,she should not be bred and pups sold to the general public.Breed for law enforcement?Heck I dont know about that,but for homeowners,nope.
    IMHO

    BooBoo
     
  17. Wags

    Wags Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Spay! For so many reasons it is the right choice. Raising puppies responsibly is not a money making deal. And the world already has too many unwanted or abused dogs without you potentially adding to that number.
     
  18. mightybooboo

    mightybooboo Well-Known Member

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    I dont think she needs to be put down,but breeding I wouldnt,but thats just me.I really dont know the dog.I do know good training sure goes a long way with a GSD.I had one that was pro trained to protect a business.Put him behind a gate,he would surely harm you if you came in.Open the gate,or let him free,a baby could ride him and pull his ears,and he could care less.Training sure goes a long way when dealing with large animals and safety.

    BooBoo
     
  19. QueenB04

    QueenB04 Well-Known Member

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    I have to agree with spaying, however the belief that spaying 'calms' a dog is not true. You may see some, although very minor, behavioral changes afterwards it is more like when she isn't in heat, so you're not really correcting much in the behavioral dept. Have you at all thought about maybe taking her to an obedience class? Not for sit and stay but just to socialize and familiarize her with other animals, and people. Dogs respond to trauma, emotional or physical, and to her being helpless to the break in is traumatic to her and she's trying to 'make up' for not being helpful at that time, to her anyways. Some guardian dogs that are unable to help family/animals tend to lash out. We had a great pyr. come to the animal clinic who had severe issues with sheep, now he was raised with them on the farm since he was a puppy he was 4 when he came to us. Well what happened was they lost lambs to a pack of dogs, the dog was in the barn at the time, saw it, and when the owner returned home said he had cut himself raw trying to get out of the stall in the barn. Since then he would attack the sheep if they ever showed signs of fear, and if any other dog was around the farm he would absolutely go balistic and would attack the sheep if he was in the field with them when the dogs would come around. They brought him to us to put him down, well the vet I worked for is a homepathic practitioner as well. He gave the owner a suppliment called Calmplex which we usually gave to animals that were car sick(works wonders) and people with anxiety problems, which I can say works well, I've used it when I tend to have my stress issues every couple of months. As well as combined obedience class the dog recovered fine, and to this day is a wonderful work dog that has shown to be an excellent breeder, none of his puppies have ever ever had temperment issues. I recomend this course.
    Do I think you should spay her? yes I do. I think she should live out her days as a companion animal. With her temperment issues you cannot assure the safety of the puppies or how she will act toward you as well with the puupies. I would talk to your vet see if he can get the Calmplex for you if you are willing to try it, or if you would like I would be happy to send some your way. Let me know. But I would spay her and take her to obedience, let her get socialized again and see if she will re-learn her role as the family dog, and help her understand what happened is not her fault. If you want more info let me know you are more then welcome to PM me.
    I will comment that I disagree with the person who said it's sad that the dog wasn't put down already. We don't kill people with PTSS. If the dog was viscious for no reason and has actually had a bite account or multiple biting accounts, especially the owner as I saw one post, I would consider this. However in this case it is a behavior issue from an event and not in the genes. I would try alternative help first before resorting to euthanasia.
     
  20. hatwoman22

    hatwoman22 Well-Known Member

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    All right this might seem an odd suggestion,,
    But has anyone ever heard of post dramatic stress in a dog?
    The symptoms described reminded me of that instantly.
    go figure, but dogs get depressed so why not stress.

    And if thats what it is I can imagine breeding would pass it along, but I dont think adding puppys to the mix would help either. Nor does spaying seem to calm them down, just makes em fat, and a bit lazy. At least in my expeirence

    Good Luck