Shock Collars

Discussion in 'Homesteading Questions' started by JM, Dec 3, 2004.

  1. JM

    JM Guest

    We have a dog that is 1/2 lab and 1/2 Jack Russell Terrier. He isn't quite a year old. He has developed a really bad habit of chasing cars. We live near a hunting club and this time of year there are quite a few cars that go by. He will not listen to us at all when it comes to chasing the cars - he just goes after them and chases them for quite a ways. I hate that he chases cars because I hate to have a dog jump out while I am driving and chase along side of me. I am terrified that he will get hit. We have tried penning him up and he always digs/jumps out. We have tried everything we can think of and are to the point of considering buying a shock collar. I was curious how many of you have tried shock collars and were you sucessful with it? What are the pros and cons of shock collars? Which brand/size would you recommend? Where did you purchase yours from? I am trying to as much research as I can as they are a bit expensive. I would appreciate in and all info/advise you might have! Thanks!
     
  2. DreamingBig

    DreamingBig Well-Known Member

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    I don't know much about the collars, but a supposed cure for the chasing is to have someone drive by with a water pistol (or a big water gun would probably be better) filled with diluted ammonia. Diluted--you don't want to permanently damage his eyes! Also, have you seen the show "The Dog Whisperer"?

    My mom has the electronic fence for her dog and is very happy with it. The more expensive kind that is professionally installed. The DIY type is worthless, I learned the hard way.

    Your dog sounds adorable but he's extremely high-energy and needs something to do. Agility training is really great for dogs like that. http://www.dogpatch.org/agility/

    I hope you find a solution quick!
     

  3. moopups

    moopups In Remembrance

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    Simple car chaseing training, tie the dog near the road with an unbreakable collar, add aspring so it will not break its neck, everytime a car passes the dog will give chase only to be 'thethered back' by the collar, in the future it will allways remember the collar means it will snatch it back, hiney kicked tothe curb,problem solved. Not awake fully yet, will review tomorrow.
     
  4. indypartridge

    indypartridge Well-Known Member Supporter

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    We bought a shock collar for our golden when we left our fenced city yard and moved to our cabin. About a $100 at PetSmart, I think. We don't have any "invisible fence" buried, just the remote so we can zap Marmalade when she starts to wander and doesn't come when called. We used it fairly successfully so she could learn the boundaries of our new property - of course that required us to be there watching her. She learned that when the collars is on, stay in the yard, when it's not, she can go into the woods, but overall, I think it was effective for what we wanted. A lot cheaper than fence!
     
  5. Tracy

    Tracy Well-Known Member

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    Invisible fencing is well worth the $$ if the dog is trained to it. We have 3 large dogs [2 Gret Danes and a chow cross] and all three of these dogs have run of the property but will not cross the perimiter. www.radiofence.com has the wire, collar and transmitter. It took us less then a day to install about 3 acres. If you have a tiller with a edging attachment this works great for doing the cut to bury the line. Again, training is the key. You must teach the dog, it took me 2 days to train my dogs.

    Good for you for looking into options to keep your dog contained. It irrates me to see dogs loose and running the streets. It is the responsibility of the pet owner to keep the dogs in their own yards.
     
  6. painterswife

    painterswife Sock puppet reinstated Supporter

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    We just got the radio fence but the one that has no wires. They have a 90 foot circle from where the base station is. I have two Aussies who had decided that visiting all the neartest neighbors was fun!

    It is working great. Not cheap but better than an injured dog and the Vet bills

    Jill
     
  7. Ozarks_1

    Ozarks_1 Well-Known Member

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    Shock collars work "fairly well".
    The invisible fencing or radio fence would be much better than the training collar with the remote - which has the drawback of someone having to watch the dog and administer a corrective shock when the animal misbehaves. Probably not an efficient use of your valuable time.

    Depending on the thickness of the dog's coat, you might have to shave the neck area where the collar electrodes will normally rest. A heavy coat will lessen the efficiency of the collar.
     
  8. HilltopDaisy

    HilltopDaisy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    My dear friend used the collar on her big male lab and is 100% happy with it. She only had to actually push the button a few times, and he now comes EVERY time she calls him. Would I use it? No, but only because I believe in fences, and I don't mean the underground kind. I fence to keep critters/people OUT, as well as keeping my dogs IN.
     
  9. Nette

    Nette Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I have reluctantly used a shock collar to keep a few stuborn dogs from going to the highway (we live quite a ways off the road). I must stress, reluctantly. They work, but you need to read carefully about the proper way to them. Also, to get the range that you want, expect to spend some money. If memory serves, mine cost about $500 ten years ago. I had originally bought a less expensive model, and had to send it back because of its low range. The brand name of mine is Tri-Tronics. I only had to use it about two or three times to get the dog to quit going to the road.
     
  10. Thumper/inOkla.

    Thumper/inOkla. Well-Known Member

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    I LOVE our shock collar, I have the trasher by innotek, the web site on the box is www.sportingdog.com the only thing I don't like is that the batteries are so small.
    We raise blue heelers and this collar gets the message across, and I don't have to be the bad guy, ....zap, yelp,..and I am "ooh, poor baby ..what happened?!?!? to you are you ok, did that mean ol' chicken bite you?!?!?!"

    This one works over the entire area of our farm, even down into the ravines, (30ft deep at some places and 1/4 mile or more away)

    The newest dog only need one zap, and no more chickens have died, the timeing on the zap is important and I never act angry after a zap. There are times when a hard zap is much better than the alternative.

    Over time the dogs need to be reminded, with the collar being put back on, and I have to rotate it amongest 4 adults, but it is way cheaper than fenceing 60 acres.
     
  11. RedneckPete

    RedneckPete Well-Known Member

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  12. Corgitails

    Corgitails Well-Known Member

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    I think an invisible fence is worthless with anything but the LOWEST drive dogs. Most strong-willed dogs (ie, anything with the word terrier in the name, most herding dogs, and anything that's a hunter if it's got sight or scent of something to chase) will just run through it- it shuts off after a zone of about 10 feet.

    I'd recommend keeping the dog indoors, or chaining him. A shock collar COULD work, but please, get a trainer to show you the CORRECT way to do it.
     
  13. Maura

    Maura Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I agree with Corgitails. While an invisible fence or independent shock collar will work on a low drive dog IF YOU ARE THERE TO TRAIN HIM, a strong drive dog will quickly learn that he can charge through the barrier with a quick zap then do as he pleases. Some dogs, while in a calm mood a zap will put them right on their bellies crying, but when that rabbit/bird/car is seen, they become totally focused and nothing will stop them.

    I don't think a shock collar will work for your dog. It sounds as though your dog is lacking in basic foundational training. Go back to square one. Have him sit at the door before you open it for him, then wait until you tell him "out". Have him sit or lie down before putting his dinner dish down, then have him wait until you release him. Do not allow him on the furniture. Do not give a treat or toy unless he earns it (sit, down, shake, high five,...). Pick up all of his toys and give him a toy/bone at your choosing, then take it back when he's done with it. This is basic respect foundational training. It not only teaches your dog that you're the benavolent dictator for life, but it gives him extra positive attention, and helps him to learn self discipline.

    In addition, you need to work him on all of the commands that he knows: come, heel, sit, etc. Work him on each command in every room of the house. Work on every command in the back yard, the side, yard, and the front yard. Dogs do not generalize, and this may be why he obeys you in the living room, but not outside. He doesn't understand that "sit" in the living room is the same as "sit" in the kitchen, or "sit" at the curb. With this in mind, and with your dog on leash, walk him all over your property having him sit for you here and there and everywhere. Reward with a small treat and praise each time. Work him on sitting three feet away from you, then six feet, etc. You get the idea. Put extra time in the area that is the worst (between the house and road). I would also suggest that you train him to look at you when you whistle. A whistle is heard much better than words and travels further. When you are out with him, let him get ten/twenty/thirty feet from you, whistle, then call him back (sit, down). If you can get him to respond to a whistle, it could save his life. It worked very well with my high strung field bred Irish Setter when nothing else would. I've since trained all of my dogs to the whistle, and my donkeys.

    To test, have dog on long lead, and have a friend drive down the road, pay close attention to your dog, and when the dog notices (preferably before he breaks into a run) tell him to sit. When he does, praise mightily and give treat. With your dog, you may want to play a favorite game when he sits for you in the front, off lead. This helps to further refocus him off the car. Your dog needs to be successful many times. When you are at the point of working him in the front yard, try to do it for five minutes at a time, several times a day, always being very happy with him when he sits at a distance. I know this all sounds time consuming, but your dog will be much more reliable than if you depend on pain from a collar. Best case scenario, your dog will sit whenever he sees a car coming up the road, even when you don't tell him.

    If you use clicker training with your dog, training will be much faster.

    Woof :yeeha:
     
  14. BCR

    BCR Well-Known Member

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    I'm with Maura. Training will help him, you and tire him out. We trained our husky/shepherd mix to run on a leash out the driver's window of the car on our deadend road. He would go about 1.5 miles twice a day at speeds to 25 mph that way, plus our training time, plus walking to the mailbox, etc. I also rode a bike with him beside me on leash. This takes patience and attentiveness on your part. It took all that to tire him out. I don't know that your dog ever satiates his need to run currently. Labs can be like that. We once tried to see how long a friend's lab would chase a ball into a pond. After over threee hours the human participants were pored and tired...she could have gone on longer. Find out what it takes and do it every day. This will take time and commitment and there is no magic fix, such as a shock collar.

    Have you been to obedience classes? Do you work on his training every day? What is his job? What is the variety of toys/challenges he has each day? He is apuppy and needs to correct this now for his future safety.

    If you aren't willing to invest the time to train him find a family who is. This happens sometimes, don't feel bad about it.

    Otherwise build a kennel with a concrete base, anchored sides and a cover to keep him from climbing out.

    Edited to say that what Maura describes is called "status reduction" which is important to be certain your dog knows you're the alpha. Read the Monks of New Skete books for some help in understanding your puppy.
     
  15. Bob Mc

    Bob Mc Member

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    Shock collars are the greatest training aid to come along in years IF USED PROPERLY. If used improperly, they can ruin a good prospect as quickly as they can correct improper behavior. As far as brands, I have just 3 words. Tri-tronics, Tri-tronics, Tri-tronics.
     
  16. Tracy

    Tracy Well-Known Member

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  17. Thumper/inOkla.

    Thumper/inOkla. Well-Known Member

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    Exactly! if my dogs are not loose, the coyotes and other wild animals will come with in 20 ft of the house while we are still up and making noise....last time I found headless chickens was while my stud dog was confinded for breeding,

    And the coy's yap from different loctions to find if he is able to follow them, if his responce location doesn't change they know where to approch from.

    A working dog is useless,....if it can't reach the work site. All of our dogs can open the doors by pulling the door open toward themselves with their feet, and come in and out of the house as they please.

    A well used shock collar serves to change the dogs idea of what the consequences are for a behavior, yelling, repetition, tieing, confinement, never where a deterant to running off, but ahh, the value of some full power zaps, while he was away from my sight or on track to attacking something I didn't tell him to and he DOESN"T leave the farm any more, he stays in calling range, 98% of the time. a couple times a year he needs a reminder, but just one or two zaps now.

    And I can TRUST him to be there, loose 24/7 goats, sheep, chickens, horses all running loose,
    My Jacob runs this farm, he is the one that has to figure out what he needs to do most of the time. Until the collar as used, he figured running the country side was a good idea. Now he agrees staying home is the best way to go.

    The consequence of not 'hearing' me, cost him more freedom with one zap, than I ever could by repetition or etc, etc. for many working dogs, repetition is boring, a bored working dog is a distructive dog, a distructive dog is a worthless dog.
     
  18. BCR

    BCR Well-Known Member

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    With training my dogs know their limits and are loose when it is their turn to work (one is loose at all times). It can be done, it takes patience and perserverance...maybe more for the dog than me. They make their rounds on the property as well. I just don't see boredom exhibited.

    I think there are some breeds that can handle that responsibility better than others. Maybe a Jack Russell/Lab mix isn't one of them.
     
  19. Corgitails

    Corgitails Well-Known Member

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    As a trainer, I would honestly consider Danes fairly low drive as a whole. They were ORIGINALLY bred to hunt wild boar. They haven't DONE it in many generations though, and there is an INCREDIBLE difference between a dog breed with a working history, and a individual dog with a working pedigree. (I'm seeing this right now with an Aussie I'm training. She's a 10 week old pup, and mentally she's about as mature as my corgis and paps are around 18 weeks. Obviously she's not physically there, but her focus and attention is.)

    Thumper, I'm not getting the sense that the JRT/Lab IS a working dog- and while I can understand that, if the dog chases cars, it's not going to be on the property in any case.

    I think a shock collar COULD be used as a training tool BY THE OWNER to fix this- but an invisible fence won't do anything at all.

    Maura, I *am* a clicker trainer, and I'm not sure I'd recommend clicker training to correct this problem. I think it could be used to help improve the dog's obedience over all, but for a dog that already has a sucessful history of chasing cars... to break a habit like that that the dog is enjoying frequently takes more negative methods.
     
  20. babetteq

    babetteq Well-Known Member

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    the best thing I ever saw for stopping car chasing was a length of rope from the dogs collar to almost it's knees, and a cut off broomhandle . When he runs, the broomstick bounces on his knees and is quite uncomfortable. I saw it stop a year old lab in 3 days. this dog was so bad you had to slow down to about 3km/h just to get past it without squishing it.

    babs