Shifter adjustment

Discussion in 'Shop Talk' started by swamp man, Dec 31, 2006.

  1. swamp man

    swamp man Well-Known Member

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    I have an '01 Mazda B2500 with manual tranny,and a while back,it started giving me some problems shifting into 2nd gear.......not a BIG problem,but just not dropping in nice 'n easy,like it should.Over the course of a coupla' weeks,the problem got a little worse,and now,it appears to be happening with 4th gear,as well.Sometimes the problem is present,and sometimes it ain't.Engine/tranny temperature don't seem to make any difference,and neither does RPM level at the time of the shift.I have been unable to establish any pattern as to when it'll give a problem,and when it won't.
    The resistance feels like it's right at the bottom of the stick.I replaced the clutch recently(had the same issue before the clutch install),and it's adjusted properly.
    Most of my wrench-turnin' experience is on automatic transmissions,so I'm kinda' lookin for some ideas on where to start.If anyone has some tips before I start takin' stuff apart,I'd appreciate hearing them.
    Oops,forgot......Clutch cylinder is flushed,full,and bled out.Other than the shifting issue,the tranny and clutch seem tip-top.
     
  2. agmantoo

    agmantoo agmantoo Supporter

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    Try pushing the clutch a couple of times prior to shifting and report here if the situation changes.
     

  3. Herb

    Herb Well-Known Member

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    I don't think there is any adjustment to be made on a hydraulic clutch. Try double clutching it like agmantoo suggested.
     
  4. Beeman

    Beeman Well-Known Member

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    Shifter most likely doesn't have any adjustment. The end of the shifter that goes in the trans is just a flat piece that picks up the shifter forks. Nothing to be afraid of, just remove the shifter boot and then remove the bolts retaining the shifter. The shifter itself might be worn, this would cause it not to move the fork all of the way. Also be sure to check the fluid level and the quality of it and be sure it's the proper fluid. You can drain the fluid and then just pour the new in thru the shifter hole while you have it off. Shifter pretty much only install one way and unless you force things it will go right back together.
    Clutch shouldn't have any effect as you should be able to shift without using the clutch if you time it correct and it should fall right in.
     
  5. swamp man

    swamp man Well-Known Member

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    Okay.Tried it,and no difference whatsoever.Fluid is topped off,and the system is freshly bled,so I'm thinkin' that it aint a hydraulics problem.
     
  6. swamp man

    swamp man Well-Known Member

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    That's more along the lines of what I suspect the problem might be.This truck has been a work truck from day one,so just about anything could be worn out.
    It drops out of first gear just fine,but the resistance comes up between the "neutral" and 2nd gear position.
    Are there any indications of wear that I can look for on the shifter?
     
  7. agmantoo

    agmantoo agmantoo Supporter

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    I would drain the trans through a sieve or into a clean white bucket and look for fragments of metal.
     
  8. Beeman

    Beeman Well-Known Member

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    i'm sure it has plenty of miles so wear should be obvious. you might have wear inside the trans which is binding or not allowing the inside mechanism to move smoothly. if you remove the shifter simply look at the business end of it. You might have so much wear that it's obvious. also while the sifter is out you can move the sliders with a screw driver in and out of gear and watch and feel to see what is worn. I have seen it be nothing more than someone left the bolts out or loose when they installed a clutch as the shifter must be removed in order to remove the trans. Case is alum so be careful tightening the bolts.
     
  9. Columbia,SC.

    Columbia,SC. Thats MR. Redneck to you

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    I had a dodge d-50 that kinda had this trouble, mine was bad news, sycronising? gear had to be replaced. Hope not, if it is you may look at the junk yard for a used one, mine was $125 I installed it myself, with a helper. PS should be the same Mitsubishi engine/drive train
     
  10. Oldguy

    Oldguy Well-Known Member

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    Chances are that you haven't gotten all of the air out of the slave cylendar. Those hydraulic clutches are a pain. The other thing is that your master or slave cylendar could be worn out and need replacing, you will know if the fluid starts dropping in the cup.

    The reason why its hard to shift is because the slave cylendar isn't depressing the fork enough to disengage the clutch. It will take some tapping on the slave cylendar with something, to get the air bubble to move, you could also jack up the back of the vehicle about a foot or two and then bleed the slave. That should get the air out of it.
     
  11. agmantoo

    agmantoo agmantoo Supporter

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    I would be interested in knowing how far off the floor the clutch pedal is when the vehicle attempts to go forward when in first gear?
     
  12. fixer1958

    fixer1958 None of the Above

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    That would be my first question, how does the pedal feel? How much free play?
    I would drain the fluid and see how many different colors of black it is. Look at the drain plug magnet and determine how much of the innards are on it.
    They are ford ranger tranny's and are known to self destruct. It may be something else but I've seen alot of it.
     
  13. agmantoo

    agmantoo agmantoo Supporter

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    I drive Ford products and I too am aware of how troublesome the clutches are. There are many transmission problems that stem from the erractic clutch behavior that results from the inconsistent hydraulic linkage performance. Some days my clutch(es)[ I have more than 1 of these trucks] may release immediately from almost no movement of the pedal off the floor and on other days there is almost no freeplay at the top of the stroke. This erractic performance leads to synchronizer problems if the driver is unaware of the behavior. I am thinking there may be a lot of brass colored shavings in the transmission since the truck has already had a clutch replacement.
     
  14. swamp man

    swamp man Well-Known Member

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    Well,that makes some sense.I knew that the ranger line and at least some of the b serise mazdas used the same parts,but still dont know on what engine options they have any commonality.Except for an old RX-7 I had a few years ago,I've never owned a Ford or Mazda,so I'm a bit unfamiliar.
    The thing is still being very erratic,but the clutch play is consistent,at maybe an inch and a half.It has shifted perfectly the last few days,so I'm thinking that there IS some air in the hydraulics,and that it has setteled somewhere that is causing less of a shifting problem.
    I'm changin' oil and filters this afternoon,but there is nothing stamped on the fill cap,and I don't have an owners manual.Anyone have any suggestions on viscosity?It almost never gets cold here,and I pull a trailer about half the time this thing leaves the house.
    I appreciate yalls responses.This forum truly is a fine source if info. :)
     
  15. agmantoo

    agmantoo agmantoo Supporter

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    When the clutch is correct you will have the impression that there is no free play. It is the design of the beast.
     
  16. BobK

    BobK Well-Known Member

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    Some of those trannys don't take gear lube but use automatic transmission fluid instead....look for the ID plate on the tranny or find a diagram of the various trannys used to ID which one you have.....

    My ford ranger, 5-speed, had a problem like you mentioned and it turned out that the mounting plate for the shifter inot (onto?) the tranny had broken allowing free-play in the shifter itself.
     
  17. swamp man

    swamp man Well-Known Member

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    Well,now there's a new problem with the same truck.Everything has been working just fine,but I got in it this morning to go run some errands,reversed to turn around,but when I pressed the clutch pedal and brake to stop and shift to first,the clutch didn't disengage,and I had to press the brake hard to stall the truck.The clutch pedal now has a ton of freeplay,and is obviously not disengaging.I've tried (with engine off) puttting the tranny in fifth gear,and rocking the truck back and forth,to get whatever is stuck "unstuck",but no dice.
    Any ideas?
     
  18. agmantoo

    agmantoo agmantoo Supporter

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    Check to verify the linkage going to the clutch master cylinder on the drivers side is still made up. Sounds like something came loose, probably a result of the recent work. I am unaware of anything in the slave cylinder that could cause this situation.
     
  19. Oldguy

    Oldguy Well-Known Member

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    You have a bad slave or master cylendar.
    Not the brake master cylendar but the clutch master cylendar. it is attached directly to the clutch pedal through the firewall via a metal rod. the slave is down on the belhousing both are connected with a metal line.

    Either the line has a leak, the slave cylendar has blown its seal or the master has blown its seal.
    IF it is the slave, you will get brake fluid inside the bellhousing usually. It will make it look oily.

    it only takes a few min to remove it and look at it. the master takes about 30 min to get to and remove.

    for my pickup a master costs around 40 bucks a slave is 38 bucks.

    BTW if you do replace them, you have to bleed the line as well as prime the cylendars. You can prime the cylendars by taking a piece of brake line with a screw fitting that will fit the master cylendar bleed valve. unscrew the valve, screw in the brake line tubing to it, and attach arubber hose to that then the other end to a bottle of brake fluid with a graduated tip. turn brake fluid upside down and press the rod into the cylendar and slowly let it spring back out. IT will draw in the fluid without letting air into the cylendar. unscrew the jig and screw in the fitting and close it off. install it. pour brake fluid into the resivoir and allow it to drain down and drip out of the end of the line, then insert into the line fitting and tighten. then bleed the thing.
    it will take a while but you will get pressure built up as you bleed all of the trapped air in the line. IT doesn't take but a half a CC of air to screw up your clutch. that ain't much just a air bubble or two.
     
  20. swamp man

    swamp man Well-Known Member

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    Thank you Agmantoo and Oldguy for your responses.
    It's a sad day in America when a man has to call his ex wife to come help work on his truck,so lower yer flags just a little.
    I am utterly confused.I can bleed the clutch once,and get some pressure,but it still aint adequate.When I follow up with another bleed,I'm back to no pressure at all.I've been through this process at least 10 times today,getting the same results every time.I've been fightin' with this thing all day,only taking a two-hour break to retrieve the reservior cap from where I dropped and lost it,between the fender and fenderwell.
    I think the linkage is intact,and I can find no leaks in the line.
    I don't know if it's the slave or master cylinder,but the valve I'm bleeding from comes out of the driver side of the tranny,just a coupla' inches above the inlet line.The tranny numbers read as such.....
    F87A
    AB
    D631482
    Oldguy,yes,there is what appears to be dot 3 leaking from the seam in the bellhousing.
    It's a funny angle,so I can't see too well,but it's lookin like the clutch or slave cylinder(whatever it is)is inside the tranny case.Somebody say it aint so.If that's the case,can I just remove the crossmember,unbolt the bellhousing,and tilt the tranny downward enough to get to it,or will I need to disconnect the driveshaft,and pull the tranny entirely?
    I'm tired and frustrated,and it's gettin' cold and dark outside,so I'm gonna' spend the rest of the afternoon with a cold beer or ten,'cuz of I turn one more wrench on that thing today,I'm going to have to take my shotgun outside,and put that SOB out of my misery.I'll start fresh in the morning.