Sheep ram has bottle jaw, UPDATE>>>>>

Discussion in 'Sheep' started by Cashs Cowgirl, Aug 27, 2006.

  1. Cashs Cowgirl

    Cashs Cowgirl Well-Known Member Supporter

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    My UPDATE>>> Well my little ram still has bottle jaw (when will that go away anyways? I'm presuming after he is not so anemic, right). He is eating more now. Up more throughout the day, he even put up a little more bob and weave effort into being caught for meds today! I've been giving him amino acids as a drench until I can get the sheep drench-it should be here tomorrow, he's had 2 vitamin B12 shots. I would like to give him more, but I've already given him 4 cc's over the last 2 days and I can't find anywhere in 4 sheep books I've browesed over on a dosage schedule or amounts not to exceed...maybe someone could give me a suggestion on that.

    He is really hanging in there. I don't even think I'm gonna want to eat the little bugger when all is said and done. I've grown kind of attached to him...think he knew of my plan? I will worm him in another week. Many of the things I read and a couple of the sheep people I talked to said not to worm them too heavily too close together. I will also use a different wormer so that I can kill some other things that the Ivomec doesn't cover. I wrote down many of the kinds and what they kill after doing some research in the library on Saturday on ways to help him and boost him. I did find a really cool veterinary book for sheep owners. It's HUGE! Quite informative. Reminds me a lot of the green one for horse owners that I have. I'll have to purchase it on our next paycheck. Any thoughts would be appreciated on how to boost my little guy back up. I've also picked up some lamb show and grow, but my little lambs are way picky! They are picking at it, but not really eating it. They snubb their noses at just about everything right now except the muscadines and only Willow really likes those. TIA!
     
  2. Ross

    Ross Moderator Staff Member Supporter

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    Not sure you can erally OD Vit B (well undoubtablely you can OD anything) but I doubt you're close. Maybe a more complete B Complex shot would be better, get some thiamin into him. I'd look for injectable Iron if he's still anemic. David C henderson's Veterinary Book for Sheep Farmers? yeah it's handy, one of my fav's but it's UK and they have some unique problems so watch for that. Laura Lawsons' books are more useful day to day in N America IMO
     

  3. Cashs Cowgirl

    Cashs Cowgirl Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Thanks Ross. Actually the shot was a Vit B complex. I really should have written that instead of just B12. I was talking to a friend while writing the post-I shouldn't do that really, but she needed some help about a horse (now those I can handle really well!). I'll look for the injectable iron tomorrow when I get the drench. So should I continue with 2cc's a day of B complex this week to help him out. He's only been on 2 days worth as of today...also the iron, how much should I give him....thanks!

    I hadn't seen any Laura Lawson books so I'll check that out as well.
     
  4. Sue

    Sue Well-Known Member

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    The dosage of B complex I have had most success with is 10 ccs per 100# twice a day until the bottle jaw disappears. I use the fortified B complex with the higher amount of thiamine ~ 100 mg per ml. I also orally drench with amino acids at the rate of 150 ccs per 100# at least twice a day until the bottle jaw goes away. I have only had a couple bottle jaws over the years but I've never lost one with this dosage which a vet gave me.
     
  5. Cashs Cowgirl

    Cashs Cowgirl Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Thanks Sue! That gives me great info! This morning there was only a small area of the bottle jaw left. It was more towards the front of his jaw. I'm presuming that we are on the tail end now. I will be picking up more Vit B, the drench and I'll pump up his amino acids. Thanks!
     
  6. Shazza

    Shazza Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You must worm 7 days after the first worming so you kill the cycle of the worm....the worms that cause bottle jaw can go through the walls of the stomach...when the drench kills whats in the stomach they come back in through the wall so you must worm again in 7 days to kill the worms.....and then in 7 days again IF THE JAW SWELLING IS NOT GOING DOWN. He will die if you dont keep worming him.
     
  7. Cashs Cowgirl

    Cashs Cowgirl Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I did worm 7 days later at the suggestion of my vet (this past Monday-last worming was the Monday before). His bottle jaw went away, but showed back up though smaller in size. He is right now getting: 3cc's of B Complex once a day injected, 10 cc of amino acid concentrate, and Geritol twice a day at 10cc, the later two by mouth and twice a day. He is perking up, but I really don't think he'll be ready for the freezer in November. He is too thin and I can't keep him much longer than that with my two ewes since I don't want them bred till next fall.
     
  8. Shazza

    Shazza Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Hi Cowgirl...if it came back I would say he still has the worms. If it has been 7 days since the last worming then do him again....if it hasnt then wait till 7 days and if it still hasnt gone down then do him again.
    I had a cow die this year, just a few weeks ago, of Bottle jaw....even though I wormed her twice they must have been too bad. Others that had bottle jaw that werent as bad are looking great now....as soon as the swelling goes they really pick up.
    I am presuming that cattle react the same as sheep with this particular worm...none of our sheep have ever had bottle jaw, but they dont graze the same paddocks as the cows.
     
  9. Cashs Cowgirl

    Cashs Cowgirl Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It came back on Sunday I believe....trying to keep everything straight with this guy :rolleyes: . I wormed him again (was 7 days later anyways) the next day-Monday the 28th. I'll most likely do him again the next Monday. I was hoping to get them into a different area, but our store is out of some of the things I needed for the new electric fence so I wasn't able to finish it and put them in. I am picking up hog panels instead (for our hogs that aren't here yet) and I'm gonna make them a pen with that so I can move them out of where they are.

    As of today the bottle jaw is down to a small swelling under his chin and it's puffy around, but not largely swollen like it was the last 2 times....
     
  10. mawalla

    mawalla Well-Known Member

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    The Barber Pole worm, which is probably what your ram was invested with, secrets a chemical that prevents the blood from coagulating. Even though you have wormed the ram and the worms have died, the areas at which the worms were attached continue to bleed for awhile after the worm is gone. The bottle jaw is a sign that this animal had a pretty bad infestation as the red blood cell count was low enough that the blood thinned enough to allow the fluid to pool at his lowest point,the tissue in his jaw as he grazed. It didn't happen overnight and it won't clear up over night. Your ram has to build up red blood cells again. The bottle jaw is a symptom not a diagnosis. Once you have eliminated the source of the anemia, and provide ample food, water, and rest to the animal it may recover provided not too much internal damage has been done. If you don't like the looks of the bottle jaw, and no one does, put some hay up high for him to eat so that he doesn't have to graze. It is not a cure but it will make him look better.

    Through the years I've missed the first signs of infestation many times on my sheep and have had to deal with bottle jaw. Worming them is the first thing that I do. Then I give them time, and usually another worming at 5 days after the first. Though I don't use supplements on mine for this problem, they probably won't hurt and might help! I just have never found the need because, usually, in about two weeks time they are doing OK again. But, that is if I catch the bottle jaw early. I've procastinated treatment a time or two early on in my sheep keeping days and have lost animals due to it. Bad me. Poor sheep that paid the price of my tuition.

    I, too, live in a warm and humid climate in which parasites thrive. I feel your pain.
     
  11. Cashs Cowgirl

    Cashs Cowgirl Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Unfortunately I think his time is almost done here....he was clearing up the bottle jaw 2 different times. I wormed him twice 7 days apart, pumped him full of stuff that should have helped and I think temporarily did since he did get perkier and acted much better...he has since gone downhill as of yesterday afternoon. I still gave him alll the stuff I've been giving him, but he has not moved from the spot in which he lay yesterday under a big tree. He feels bloated, he has the runs, although they are semi soft and not liquidy. I can hear his insides just a rumbling and he doesn't seem to be able to get up. He did try to move this morning, but he only moved his head over some. He didn't seem to have the strength to do much more. I've been sitting with him and stroking him...he seems relaxed by us now after two weeks almost of caring for him. There's really nothing more I think I can do. I thought for sure he'd be gone this morning, but he is still alive out there....unfortunate for me (and him) that I was out of town at the onset of his symptoms...
     
  12. Shazza

    Shazza Well-Known Member Supporter

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    :( Sorry to hear about your little ram....I know how you feel.
     
  13. Cashs Cowgirl

    Cashs Cowgirl Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Thank you Shazza. He is still hanging in there. I want to put him down because I don't think he's doing anything, but suffering. I can't right now though since the people I know that could do it for me are not home and I guess I just don't want to, thinking he's held on this long that maybe he'll be ok, but I really should know better...
     
  14. kesoaps

    kesoaps Well-Known Member

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    So sorry, CC. Tough call, when you'd really like to make them better, but then again there is a limit to the money one can spend on livestock when they're just not thriving. Best of luck to you!
     
  15. Cashs Cowgirl

    Cashs Cowgirl Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Unfortunately we did have to make the decision to put him down. He went down on Friday afternoon. I thought for sure he would be gone by that evening. Nope...he sure hung in there. I left for two birthday parties and I thought for sure he'd be gone when I got home (once again everyone I knew that could help me were at work!), well he was still alive!, but weak and breathing pretty labored. It was almost 6 pm by then and I called a friend over then to put him down for me. I was sad to have to and so was he (my friend), but I was so relieved for my 'Lambchop' that he was no longer suffering. We buried him next to our goat. Another homesteading lesson learned at the expense of my poor sheep....
    Rest in peace Lambchop:
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