[travlnusa]

Good evening,

I need some help with a Septic problem. As you know the solid tank flows into the liquid tank. In our liquid tank, there is a sump pump that pushes the liquids strait up to just under the access lid , bends 90 degrees for 2 feet, and then bends 90 degrees back down. There is a 90 degree bend near the top of the liquid tank that heads off to the drain field.

Tonight our alarm went off. I pulled the lid and saw that the PVC pipe elbow that heads to the drain field is broken off.

I waited for the pump to start to run again and held the two broken parts together. The liquid would flow into the pipe for about one minute until the backpressure forced the liquid back into the tank.

The pipe going to the drain field is either plugged or frozen. I am 1 hr direct east of the twin cities, so the low temps have not that been that low for me to believe that it is frozen.

Is is safe for me to rent a long gas powered snake, put a ladder down into the tank, and climb down and try to auger the pipe out?

If this is not safe, am I looking at a $200 or $20,000 repair?

I am grateful for your help.

Thanks

 

[MELOC]

i would think that is condsidered a confined space and it may be dangerous to work in there. not only could you run out of fresh air in an empty tank, but you probably have lots of nasty gas from the sewage in that space. if i were to do it on my own, i would be sure i had proper ventilation...and a buddy or two...and a line attached so i could be pulled out without anyone needing to enter.

 

[AR Transplant]

sounds like you'd better get a pro to look at this one. Sometimes you can save money by getting someone who knows what they're doing. Then there is the rub, be sure to hire someone who does know what they're doing, not the ones who just pretend that they are pros. (ask me how I know)

 

[Beeman]

WOW! you know how to have fun on Thanksgiving. We get excited over pumpkin pie with whipped cream.

Any septic tank with alarms is way beyond my abilities.

 

[Ken Scharabok]

It sounds to me like there is a stoppage in the field pipe somewhere. The pump is filling it up, then you get the back pressure.

I suspect you have the two tank system with a remote drain field or mound. Essentially settled water goes from the large tank into the one where the sump pump is located. The sump pump then does its job of carrying off the water as it is triggered. This type of sump pump typically has an alarm on it if the water level rises above where the pump should kick in.

Have you recently had any heavy equipment or trucks go over your line which may have crushed it?

Were it me, I'd do a temporary repair to necking down the pvc from the pump to a garden hose coupler and then running the water in various places in the yard until the problem can be found. However, you may have a problem with the garden hose freezing on you.

The county health department should have a copy of your approved septic system. It would be very handy when you get a professional out to look at it. They may be able to dig out the outgoing line to see if they can find a problem. For example, they push through wire and it stops X feet away. Knowing where the line is they can then come close to being over the potential problem.

 

[travlnusa]

Ken,

You have described my system prefectly.

I have set up a temporary system to keep the alarm off.

Nothing heaving has been in the area. There is my house, with the tanks about 15 feet out, then a run through a tree wind breakline line and then another 15 feet to the drainfield mound.

Based on what I am hearing here, this is not a diy project.

Thanks for the ideas and guidance.

 

[Cabin Fever]

I agree with the others that this is a job for a professional. I assume you've used your septic system other years without it freezing, so I doubt that it would have frozen this early this year. However, the set up you describe sounds like wastewater is not allowed to flow back into the pump tank after the pump has turned off. In other words, the sytem should be designed such that after the pump has gone thru its cycle and emptied the pump tank, water left in the pipe (the pipe that goes to the mound) should flow back into the pump tank. This water HAS to flow back or it will freeze in the pipe going to the mound. With all the 90º elbows in your design it sounds to me that the pipe going to the mound would stay full of water after a pump cycle. On the other hand, if freezing hasn't been a problem in the past I'm not sure why it would be now.

When was the last time you had your septic tank pumped? If it was a long time ago, there is a chance that sludge has flowed into the pump tank and then pumped up into the mound. This occurnece would probably not plug the distribution piping in the mound, but rather plug the interface between the sand and rock distribution bed in the mound.

A professional should be able to clear any sludge or frozen effluent in the piping. But if sludge has been pumped into the mound, the plugging of the sand/rock interface is generally not repairable. If the septic guy can reapir the problem, have him install an "effluent filter" at the same time.

 

[agmantoo]

With the exit 90 degree elbow broken will any floating fines be able to carry over into the drain field? If so, it could be clogged with "silt" The first thing I would determine is if there is excessive water going into the drain field. Pour some food coloring into the water closet on the toilets and observe for a color change in the toilet bowl. The best septic system cannot tolerant continuous water being added to the drain field. Should you find a toilet leaking, fix the leak and just wait a few days and see if the system can self correct.

 

[travlnusa]

To bring all up to date, I called a professional and while he is booked up today, he has given me lots of advice.

I went the far end of the mound and dug until I found the end of the pipe that runs along the top of the rock on the mound.

I then went to the other end, and dug until I found where the pipe comes up from the ground, on its way from the liquid tank.

I cut the end of the pipe off, and cut out the elbow where the mound pipe starts to run.

After my hoses thaw (thought I drained the better) I will try to backflush the pipes.

If I am lucky, I can clear out the clog.

If that does not work, I will at least know what part of the pipe the clog is in, and the guy I called says that will cut his bill in half if he needs to come out here Monday.

I have the tanks pumped out every three years.

Cabin, there is no "backflow" system as you describe.

The system froze up one year. That was the first year I moved my beautiful wife out to the farm from the suburbs, and she made sure to mow the grass each week on the mound, thus there was nothing to insulate it. Yes, we are still married.

For the record, the ground is only frozen down about 3/4" as of today.

I do have one other problem. After I get all of this done, I still need to fix the 90 degree elbow that is in the liquid tank going out the the drain field. My problem is that the elbow is in the concrete tank, so I can not just cut off a chunk of pvc and put in a new elbow.

Any ideas on that one?

THANK YOU ALL VERY VERY MUCH

 

[agmantoo]

Is there no inspection or clean out door above the 90 degree elbow. My precast conventional tanks have a door on each end.

 

[travlnusa]

And so the story ends........

The Septic guy stopped by as he was in the area, just to see what I was talking about on the phone.

Cabin - The first thing he saw was a lack of any back flow system. The next thing was how shallow the drainfield pipe is under the ground.

He also pointed out a few other things that were skipped over when it was installed. He could also tell me exactly who installed it based on the work.

To make my Thanksgiving all the better, he will come by some day next week, pump both tanks, fix all the stuff that needs to be fixed or corrected. The estimate is $275-$325.

I am a very happy guy.

Again, thanks to all of you for leading me in the right direction.

Take care

 

[Cabin Fever]

....I do have one other problem. After I get all of this done, I still need to fix the 90 degree elbow that is in the liquid tank going out the the drain field. My problem is that the elbow is in the concrete tank, so I can not just cut off a chunk of pvc and put in a new elbow...

For future reference, what is typically done is the pump, float tree, and pipng are all assembled outside of the pump tank. Then the entire assembly is lowered into the tank by use of a chain or plastic or nylon rope. So, to fix any problems, the pump, float tree and piping must be removed from the tank as one unit by lifting it all up at once with the chain or rope. Of course, in order to do this the piping must be disconnected first...either by cutting or at a union coupling...before lifting the unit. Pay attention to the electrical wiring and connectors when doing this.

Glad to hear that the septic guy has you up and running. He sounds like the kind of guy that I would keep track of his phone number in the case of future problems.