Scours in adult goats

Discussion in 'Goats' started by lasergrl, Jan 19, 2012.

  1. lasergrl

    lasergrl Lasergrl Supporter

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    I have 4 nigerians, one buck and three does. one doe is 2 years old, one is 3, the other 4. The 2 and 3 year old both had kids 2 months ago, 3 year olds was pulled for bottlefeeding at 3 days. the youngest had a perfect doe kid but she never cleaned it out of the sack and I found it dead, fluid filled lungs. She developed dark pudding scours about 4 weeks ago. She had been acting totally normal otherwise. eating, drinking, temp 101.8 I do not feed anything other then alfalfa/grass hay and nothing had changed. I assumed parasites, since eyes were a medium to pale pink. Gave her quest, copper bolused, and bose injection (I actually couldnt catch her to give it before kidding, she is WILD). She continues to have scours, and she is looking rough, but still, acts normal. I gave her ivermectin plus in case it was flukes. She got probiotics today.
    Today I noticed my 3 year old hiding in the shed. She wont eat. I gave her a few pellets of grain feed and she did take them, but then wouldnt a few hours later. gave her probios. She has pudding scours now too but didnt this am. She has nice pinkish red eye membranes. Her temp 101.5. I had dewormed her with quest a month ago. Today I gave her some albon, and plan to give kaolin in an hour or so after albons digested. All goats up to date of cdt and were copper bolused about a week ago. They got a handfull of multigrain cheerios last night as a treat, have had before, but not everyday.
    I can drop off a fecal sample on monday. Untill then is there anything that stands out that I could be doing? The one not eating is alarming. I havent any idea what to do. Should I go to the store and get cd&t antitoxin for the one not eating? I have some lightly expired fortified b complex. Would that help?
     
  2. Alice In TX/MO

    Alice In TX/MO More dharma, less drama. Supporter

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    It would help if you would add how much of each dewormer you administered. If you went by the label, it's not enough.

    Do they have access to baking soda?
     

  3. lasergrl

    lasergrl Lasergrl Supporter

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    I gave 1/2 cc each of quest. I cant rember the dose on the Iver plus but it was what dairygoatinfo had listed. I have actually never used plus before so cant remeber what the dose said. I have baking soda and minerals out but they never touch either. I leave it out in case but they literally never take any. Should I drench her with baking soda?
    I am thinking maybe acidosis, from the cheerios?

    Oh and looking back at my calander of when i dewormed the younger one has been scouring 2 weeks not 4.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2012
  4. mpete

    mpete Well-Known Member Supporter

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    With the 3 year old: I would think off-hand that you need to give them CMPK pretty soon... This is the link given in another thread...
    http://www.dairygoatinfo.com/index.php?topic=22.0
    Definitely give her lots of B. If you can, get some both orally and injected... The rumen is what keeps the goat warm... the probiotics definitley will help. Run a fecal, but I am guessing that you may have something else going on...
    The ploppy poops itself isn't too much to worry about...
    With the other and the 3 year old this is still possible: Have you considered cocci? Make sure you specifically tell them to look for it in the fecal because they will not always tell you if they see them. You can give goats pepto if it gets real bad.
     
  5. lasergrl

    lasergrl Lasergrl Supporter

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    Why the cmpk? I have it, but she has been dry for 2 months.

    I gave her albon today in case. I got it for the younger one with ongoing problems but panicked. I work at a small animal vet but wont be there untill monday. The fecals are sent out to a lab and they check for cocci as well. they will even pick up giardia cysts. I really dont thinks its parasites but I guess I wont know untill then.

    I will be off to the store to get fresh baking soda and pepto. What about milk of magesia? I read thats treatment for acidosis.
     
  6. lasergrl

    lasergrl Lasergrl Supporter

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    Daisy the one not eating is grinding her teeth now if that helps id problem.
     
  7. mpete

    mpete Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I didn't realize she was dry... then I wouldn't worry about the CMPK.

    This is copied off of http://www.jackmauldin.com/health/acidosis.htm


    Clinical Picture:

    Simple indigestion may be the first indication of a feeding problem. The goat backs off her feed, usually only for one feeding. If longer than 24 hrs then something else is wrong. Chronic feeding problems will manifest as variable appetite, depressed milk fat and chronic laminitis. Acute laminitis shows up as painful feet. What is more common is the chronic form in which the toes grow abnormally fast with "rings". The quality of the horn is poor and flaky. Goats may be lame and prone to foot abscesses. Milk
    fat is depressed because fibre is necessary for the rumen flora to produce the correct volatile fatty acid to make milk fat (acetate). With more severe lactic acidosis, the protozoa die, the rumen becomes static and the goat becomes depressed and dehydrated. The rumen is fluid filled and "sloshy". Diarrhea smells acidic and is yellow in colour. In very severe cases, there is no diarrhea because of total gut stasis. The
    goat may appear "drunk" and ataxic. She will go down and will look very similar to milk fever, i.e. cold with dilated pupils. Rumen examination (pH and examination of flora) need to be done to confirm a diagnosis.
     
  8. mpete

    mpete Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The b will help her with her appetite
     
  9. mpete

    mpete Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The CD&T antitoxin is not the same as C&D antitoxin...
     
  10. lasergrl

    lasergrl Lasergrl Supporter

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    Huh,

    Well I dont know then! I was out trying to give her the fortified b. I was successfull at giving her about 2 cc, the rest sprayed all over the shed as she fought me more then I expected. She is depressed when not being forced to do something but she can sure argue with me still. I have her kaolin pectin and she loved it. I am used to giving it to dogs that froth and fight. She swallowed it down. I gave 30 cc.
     
  11. mpete

    mpete Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Grasping at straws, but here's another thing that can cause diarrhea:

    Entero symptoms:
    The Subacute disease is more apt to occur in older kids and adults. They may be ill for several days or weeks and show anorexia (refusal to eat) and intermittent severe diarrhea occasionally with epithelialshreds in the feces. They will occasionally eat and with time and appropriate treatment, they will usually recover.
    Subacute or chronic cases could resemble coccidiosis, salmonellosis, rumen impaction. Fecal examination, culture and smears would aid in diagnosis of the first two and abdominal palpation, the latter.
     
  12. lasergrl

    lasergrl Lasergrl Supporter

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    was out there and temp is 100.1. not herself but alert and standing. Fighting me tooth and nail. Got more fortified b into her. Gave her banamine for the teeth grinding. She jumped and got about 1/2 cc I.M. instead of sub q. Hope that is ok.
    Still not eating. She is nosing through the hay and pushing it around but not mouthing it.
     
  13. Backfourty,MI.

    Backfourty,MI. Katie Supporter

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    I don't use Quest but I still don't think 1/2 cc is enough for an adult goat. Hoe much about do your goats weigh?

    Also for entero I believe you give the C & D Antitoxin. The CD & T Toxoid is what you give for their vaccine which is different than the one used for Entero. If you have the Antitoxin it won't hurt to give it to them. The dose is 20 cc SQ but Antitoxin not the Toxoid.
     
  14. Backfourty,MI.

    Backfourty,MI. Katie Supporter

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  15. lasergrl

    lasergrl Lasergrl Supporter

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    40 and 50is pounds
     
  16. lasergrl

    lasergrl Lasergrl Supporter

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    Just got the c& d antitoxin. Should some be orally given?

    eta: she was still not interested in hay or alfalfa pellets. gave her the antitoxin sub q. It apparantly stings. I drenched her with baking soda. Guess I can just wait untill am and see how she is doing. She wasnt cold or shivering, for the first time the goats were cuddling together keeping each other warm. They dont usually lay by each other.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2012
  17. Ranger

    Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Do you have, or can you get, activated charcole? For that size you would need to give about 30cc's twice a day until her poop firms up. You can get it at TS. It comes in a big tube, and it's easier to put it into a big syringe or drenching gun to give it. Be prepared to be very black!! They always seem to get almost on you as they swallow. It will absorb toxins in the system, and help to flush them out.
     
  18. JBarGFarmKeeper

    JBarGFarmKeeper Well-Known Member Supporter

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    My guess is Cocci!! It can and does affect adults. I found a product this past year that I will NEVER be without again!

    http://www.horseprerace.com/toltrazuril-200ml-p-29.html

    Google it. Read about it. I have used it in kids and adults. 3 cc orally once in kids and 5 cc orally in adults will save a goat. It is a cocciocide that kills all stages of cocci. It is amazing. The literature says it is never too late. They like the taste it may seem expensive but compared to the repeated doses required with other products and their side-effects, I think it is worth every penny!
     
  19. JBarGFarmKeeper

    JBarGFarmKeeper Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Another thing that I have used for scours in adult goats that will NOT hurt them is Oral Neomycin. I give 5cc on day one and 3cc on days 2-5. Just recently I have mixed it with 15cc of pepto-bismol to help coat the stomach. They don't really care for the taste of either but they improve...quickly!
     
  20. Backfourty,MI.

    Backfourty,MI. Katie Supporter

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    Last time I had to give the antitoxin to a couple of my girls that got into a bush they shouldn't have(it is now gone) they never even jumped when I gave them the shot. Guess they just felt that bad they didn't notice.

    I hope someone that uses Quest gives the correct dosage for goats at the weight of yours. I don't use Quest so I can help there but 1/2 cc I bet is still way too little.
    I usually use Cydectin & Ivermectin.

    I know when using Ivermectin horse paste you give the goat 3 Times the dose for a horse of the same weight. So if the goat is 100 pounds you would give them the same amount that you'd give a 300 pound horse. Wonder if the Quest is the same.

    I hope they pull through.