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Discussion Starter #1
Hello,
We have had two saanens for the past three weeks. This is my first time with goats. One in milk.

I would say that her milk supply has been decreasing over the past few weeks, and it seems to me that after i gave her the dewormer (rumatol) that she was less hungry the next day and also had about half as much milk as normal. Is this normal for them to go through?

In order to increase her supply I have been giving her an extra milking during the day, which also means for pellets and alfalfa.

This is the first time she has been dewormed, the previous owner didn't think it necessary because of their housing situation. However, i thought her eyes weren't as pink as i'd like them.

So my basic questions are....
Why the decrease in milk?
Is a reaction normal after worming?

we really love having goats and look forward to learning more! They are very sweet creatures and I want to take good care of them and continue to provide great milk for my family.
 

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STILL not Alice
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My gal's production goes down when she's coming into heat. IIRC, Saanens are seasonal - at least the one I had was. ;)

I am not familiar with the dewormer you mention. The only thing I found (probably the same as Alice) is an herbal medication for humans.
 

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Dairy goats are typically milked for 2-3 months into their pregnancy. They need at least 2 months off from milking to rebuild udder tissue and allow their nutrition go to the fetuses inside.
 

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Rumatel , not too far off. Not a very effective dewormer in any case. Fecal first and deworm accordingly. How much in volume of milk has decreased. Is this over the past few weeks, or definitely attributable to the deworming?
 

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Went back and reread your post. Very likely your doe could have been at the end of her lactation and you weren't aware of it when you got her. That might be normal, or you could have been sold a low producer.
 

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The stress of move in late lactation could very well dry off even a good doe. Moving a doe in lactation is usually bound to lower lactation, and later in season more likely to cause them to dry off.

She should be going into heat this time of the season, and every 21-ish days until she is bred or until late winter. Most dairy goats lactate for 10 months a year, and kid every year. Does are bred in the fall to kid in spring, but usually not dried up until mid/late winter. The DUEDATE determines the dry up date, NOT the length of lactation. ALWAYS dry a doe 2 months prior to kidding for optimal production, udder health, and body condition at kidding. This means she will be milked for 3 months into her gestation.

If her appetite is low, perhaps she's having some switch-over problems from the move, or acidosis. Do they have free choice baking soda? LOOSE Minerals?

If you do need to deworm, use a product that works better. Products and dosing and the target worms (if you use the wrong product you may not kill the worms you need to) listed here at this site: http://www.dairygoatinfo.com/f28/worming-worms-wormers-21389/
 
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Discussion Starter #10
Went back and reread your post. Very likely your doe could have been at the end of her lactation and you weren't aware of it when you got her. That might be normal, or you could have been sold a low producer.
She was producing 2/3 gal a day at her prime, but when i got her 2 qts and 1/2 per day. Now, barely 2 qts.

What wormer do you all use and have success with? I want to worm them now before breeding...
 

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I use ivermectin plus, cydectin pour-on, quest, and also keep prohibit on hand. I use all of these ORALLY at the doses listed. Quest is the same drug as cydectin pour-on, but different concentrations so different dose. Also to note - if you use quest, squirt it all out and mix well before using. It is not made to be partitioned out, but used to dose one horse at a time - so if it's not mixed well it's not a problem... But in goats, it could mean an underdose or an over dose.
 

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le person
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What wormer you use depends on what you are worming for. Most commonly we are worming for barberpole. Quest/cydectin or Prohibit will get those. A fecal will give you a much more accurate idea of what you need to worm for.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I use ivermectin plus, cydectin pour-on, quest, and also keep prohibit on hand. I use all of these ORALLY at the doses listed. Quest is the same drug as cydectin pour-on, but different concentrations so different dose. Also to note - if you use quest, squirt it all out and mix well before using. It is not made to be partitioned out, but used to dose one horse at a time - so if it's not mixed well it's not a problem... But in goats, it could mean an underdose or an over dose.
Everything I've read seems to indicate that ivermectin plus is the most effective. Can you tell me, do you follow the withdrawal period for milk?? Its so long!
I was thinking that maybe i'd breed her wait the necessary period and then deworm prior to kidding... When i dry her off.
Thoughts?
 

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Everything I've read seems to indicate that ivermectin plus is the most effective. Can you tell me, do you follow the withdrawal period for milk?? Its so long!
I was thinking that maybe i'd breed her wait the necessary period and then deworm prior to kidding... When i dry her off.
Thoughts?
Once again, it MAY be the most effective. It may not - depends on what worms you have and if your worms are resistant. In many areas, moxidectin or prohibit are the drugs of choice because ivermectin does not work well anymore to treat barberpole. In many others, it works fine. A lot will have to do with what the worm management protocol was where you got the goats - what they used may not work well for you if the worms they brought with them are resistant to that drug.

Ivermectin plus will also get liver flukes, if those are an issue.

As for withdrawal times, the reason it is so long is because the label is for injectable use. Injections stay in body longer than do pour-on or oral. Some uses of these drugs are NOT APPROVED/STUDIED in goats, and so an official withdrawal time can be hard to find, especially when you're giving it orally instead of injectable, which is an 'off label' use.

Here is a very interesting article on withdrawal times. Might be a good one to save/bookmark. http://www.farad.org/publications/digests/092000ExtralabelIvermectinMoxidectin.pdf

PERSONALLY, I try to go at least a week or two without using the milk for our customer's milk shares. For our household use, I don't worry about drinking the milk. Ivermectin is a anthelmintic used in humans in other countries, and I'm not really worried about it, personally. If I needed to use it, I would - but since we generally have a few does in milk, we can usually avoid using it and instead opt to dump it where our chickens can't get it. Or if we have bottle baby goats, we use it to feed the babies. (we pull all dairy kids at birth to raise on the bottle, here). Freezing a bit for emergencies wouldn't hurt either. :)
 
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Ok, so the best thing to do here is fecal sample. Everyone agrees! However, like i said before these are not money making goats, what is an inexpensive way to get this done?mcam we ship a goat berry to a lab in the mail? Or do we always have to pay huge vet fees?
I am not in a worming crisis right now, they look good, so now is the time for me to figure some of this out, in the maintainance stage before we hit a crisis!
 

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If your vet is anything like mine, then fecals are around 20.00 each. That's too much, IMO. :)

I send my fecals via mail to http://midamericaagresearch.net/. I do several animals at a time to make the shipping worth it (Though I usually use the 5.60 flat-rate USPS boxes to ship, so it's not bad at all). Mid America Ag research charges 5.00 per sample and emails you results asap, so it's a great deal IMO.

Wait for them to poo and either catch it in an inverted baggie you're holding under her, or if they're standing still pooing you can pick up a big pile after they're done. Label the baggie with a sharpie. I refrigerate after I collect until I ship, keeps the eggs from hatching.
 

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if your vet is anything like mine, then fecals are around 20.00 each. That's too much, imo. :)

i send my fecals via mail to http://midamericaagresearch.net/. I do several animals at a time to make the shipping worth it (though i usually use the 5.60 flat-rate usps boxes to ship, so it's not bad at all). Mid america ag research charges 5.00 per sample and emails you results asap, so it's a great deal imo.

Wait for them to poo and either catch it in an inverted baggie you're holding under her, or if they're standing still pooing you can pick up a big pile after they're done. Label the baggie with a sharpie. I refrigerate after i collect until i ship, keeps the eggs from hatching.
thanks!
 

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Call your vet and ask how much they charge. Ours charges only 7.00/sample. They didn't have any worms but did have coccidiosis but not a bad case of it.
 
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