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I understand you don't know much about the Ukraine War and what led up to it.
You have no idea about that because we did not discuss it. You are refusing to answer a simple question. I did not ask why you believe something I asked what you believe. It is a starting point for a discussion. Why will you not answer that simple question?
 

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Peterson makes some interesting points, and we can’t deny the energy pain we’re facing, but that’s entirely self-inflicted.

His logic fails on the point that he predicted Russia “losing” on Ukraine “winning”.

Ukraine has only one condition under which it could win, and even that is potentially a Pyrrhic victory: if Ukraine manages to do so well on the battlefield that they get Crimea back from Russia, then they regain control over the oil that Russia stole from them in 2014.

Russia doesn’t have a path to military victory anymore. Even if the Ukrainian resistance folded today, they’ve managed to grind Russia’s Army, lauded as the 2nd strongest in the world just eight months ago, down to the bloody nubs.

Putin has put great effort into underplaying the extent to which he’s marshaled his forces throughout this bout of adventurism. He’s called it a “Special Military Operation” to make it seem like a limited, localized effort, despite mobilizing over 10% (of his combined active and reserve) forces for his initial invasion, and had to scrape all the way to the bottom of the materiel barrel, cobbling together units from mixed battalions and half-broken equipment.

Now, seven months into the “special military operation”, he’s conscripting everyone who’s ever given military service, and calling it a “limited mobilization”. What he announced is not a “limited mobilization”. He’s mobilizing like no major nation has done since WWII, and deeper even than many did then. He’s now so desperate that he’s now going to drag old women from their homes to force them to try to fix up mothballed armor, and thrust old Nagant rifles into the hands of old men and bus them to the Ukraine border.

That’s not a “limited mobilization”. That’s a last-ditch military hail-Mary play.

Even if Ukraine capitulates today, Russia has already lost, militarily.
 

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You are wrong. I'm just not carrying the US's or Europe's water.

If you look at the majority of posts I have made about Ukraine, I provide a reference with no comment.

At this point, I think the evidence points to US aggression in Ukraine provoked Russia and that the US could have prevented the war, but chose not to.

If you know differently, please make your factual argument.
Your position is uninformed. Putin is still using the Soviet playbook, and he doesn't even hide that fact, he says so proudly. So what is that playbook? Before World War II, Lenin and Stalin intentionally starved 2 million Ukrainians by stealing their harvest and trading their grain to the United States and Great Britain in return for steel and other things needed for their infrastructure. The Ukrainians call it The Holodomor. This angered the Ukrainians. The Ukrainians, mostly, have had a strong independence streak ever since. There were no free elections in Crimea, that is a Kremlin lie. There will be no free elections in Donetsk and Luhansk, that is a Kremlin lie. This is nothing more than Putin attempting to piece together the old Soviet Union, and we know that because he has been stating that as his goal since 1999. Most Ukrainians were beginning to want European Union membership...........................and so Russia attacked. You're a fool if you believe anything else.
 

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Peterson makes some interesting points, and we can’t deny the energy pain we’re facing, but that’s entirely self-inflicted.

His logic fails on the point that he predicted Russia “losing” on Ukraine “winning”.

Ukraine has only one condition under which it could win, and even that is potentially a Pyrrhic victory: if Ukraine manages to do so well on the battlefield that they get Crimea back from Russia, then they regain control over the oil that Russia stole from them in 2014.

Russia doesn’t have a path to military victory anymore. Even if the Ukrainian resistance folded today, they’ve managed to grind Russia’s Army, lauded as the 2nd strongest in the world just eight months ago, down to the bloody nubs.

Putin has put great effort into underplaying the extent to which he’s marshaled his forces throughout this bout of adventurism. He’s called it a “Special Military Operation” to make it seem like a limited, localized effort, despite mobilizing over 10% (of his combined active and reserve) forces for his initial invasion, and had to scrape all the way to the bottom of the materiel barrel, cobbling together units from mixed battalions and half-broken equipment.

Now, seven months into the “special military operation”, he’s conscripting everyone who’s ever given military service, and calling it a “limited mobilization”. What he announced is not a “limited mobilization”. He’s mobilizing like no major nation has done since WWII, and deeper even than many did then. He’s now so desperate that he’s now going to drag old women from their homes to force them to try to fix up mothballed armor, and thrust old Nagant rifles into the hands of old men and bus them to the Ukraine border.

That’s not a “limited mobilization”. That’s a last-ditch military hail-Mary play.

Even if Ukraine capitulates today, Russia has already lost, militarily.
I'd like to believe that, but personally I think he hasn't really committed his air force. I think they're trying to avoid mass casualties to their air force, but once they do they will gain air superiority and then they'll just carpet bomb until Ukraine capitulates.
 

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I'd like to believe that, but personally I think he hasn't really committed his air force. I think they're trying to avoid mass casualties to their air force, but once they do they will gain air superiority and then they'll just carpet bomb until Ukraine capitulates.
They did try to establish air superiority. They failed woefully. The orcs are less likely to be able to now than then.
 

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Your position is uninformed. Putin is still using the Soviet playbook, and he doesn't even hide that fact, he says so proudly. So what is that playbook? Before World War II, Lenin and Stalin intentionally starved 2 million Ukrainians by stealing their harvest and trading their grain to the United States and Great Britain in return for steel and other things needed for their infrastructure. The Ukrainians call it The Holodomor. This angered the Ukrainians. The Ukrainians, mostly, have had a strong independence streak ever since. There were no free elections in Crimea, that is a Kremlin lie. There will be no free elections in Donetsk and Luhansk, that is a Kremlin lie. This is nothing more than Putin attempting to piece together the old Soviet Union, and we know that because he has been stating that as his goal since 1999. Most Ukrainians were beginning to want European Union membership...........................and so Russia attacked. You're a fool if you believe anything else.
That has nothing to do with the 2 points I gave.

Ukraine and the West provoked Putin
(That's a very simple statement. Don't read anything into it that I didn't say.)

The US likely could have prevented the war, but Biden didn't even try.
(Again, I don't understand how this is debatable)

I hope you got everything off your chest. Since I didn't discuss any of the points you made, you have no idea what I think about them.

I will refute one point. Ukraine has a west side and an east side. The west side leans toward Europe and the east leans toward Russia. Ukraine had an elected president that tried to play things down the middle but he was overthrown in what was likely a CIA/State Dept sponsored rebellion and a President favorable to the West was installed.
 

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They did try to establish air superiority. They failed woefully. The orcs are less likely to be able to now than then.
I kind of agree. I think they tried to establish low cost air superiority. I don't think they've attempted the more costly version where they sacrifice a lot of aircraft in order to completely destroy Ukraine's air defenses.
 

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That has nothing to do with the 2 points I gave.

Ukraine and the West provoked Putin
The US likely could have prevented the war, but Biden didn't even try

I hope you got everything off your chest. Since I didn't discuss any of the points you made, you have no idea what I think about them.

I will refute one point. Ukraine has a west side and an east side. The west side leans toward Europe and the east leans toward Russia. Ukraine had an elected president that tried to play things down the middle but he was overthrown in what was likely a CIA/State Dept sponsored rebellion and a President favorable to the West was installed.
Ukraine and The West provoked Putin by making Ukrainians an appealing offer? You actually care what Putin thinks about that? Seriously? You actually care that it interferes with Putin's imperial ambitions, and Ukrainians are supposed to care what you think about that? What is this? Are you Russian? Are you crying in your oatmeal because you want to dominate your neighbors but the Europeans keep forming up to stand up to your bullying?

To say that the east side leans toward Russia is a gross overstatement. A little over half the people in the eastern regions did. And you can't even call Donetsk and Luhansk "half" the country. So that isn't anywhere near half the country. But okay.

Whether the CIA or State Department sponsored it or not, the Ukrainians found out that their president was a corrupt Kremlin crony shoveling all of their wealth into his own pockets, and they realized that even corrupt westerners are nowhere near as crappy a deal as the Kremlin. That's how the world works. You really think Putin doesn't stick his nose into American politics? You aren't that naïve are you? We played the game, we appealed to the Ukrainians, proved that The West was the better deal, and now it's time for Putin to suck it up and stop grinding his country into the dirt.
 

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That has nothing to do with the 2 points I gave.

Ukraine and the West provoked Putin
(That's a very simple statement. Don't read anything into it that I didn't say.)
Why wouldn't we. Russia has been a main adversary of the west for over 100 years. We should take every chance we have to stick it to them.

The US likely could have prevented the war, but Biden didn't even try.
(Again, I don't understand how this is debatable)
Why would we try to prevent it. Russia has been a main adversary of the west for over 100 years. We should take every chance we have to stick it to them.

There was nothing in the world that would have stopped Putin's invasion... he has coveted Ukraine since he was a KGB agent. He saw what he considered a weak President elected in the U.S. and started making his operational plans.
 

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Why wouldn't we. Russia has been a main adversary of the west for over 100 years. We should take every chance we have to stick it to them.



Why would we try to prevent it. Russia has been a main adversary of the west for over 100 years. We should take every chance we have to stick it to them.

There was nothing in the world that would have stopped Putin's invasion... he has coveted Ukraine since he was a KGB agent. He saw what he considered a weak President elected in the U.S. and started making his operational plans.
You can argue about things I never said all you want.
You can try to read things into what I said.
But no one has in any way shown that those 2 points are not true.
 

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You can argue about things I never said all you want.
You can try to read things into what I said.
But no one has in any way shown that those 2 points are not true.
Try some reading comprehension classes. I'm didn't say if they were true or not but merely said that if they were true... so what???... who cares???... big deal... BFD... etc. that's what adversaries/enemies do... they always have, and they always will. BTW...some deductive reasoning classes might not hurt either... jeez!
 

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That has nothing to do with the 2 points I gave.

Ukraine and the West provoked Putin
(That's a very simple statement. Don't read anything into it that I didn't say.)

The US likely could have prevented the war, but Biden didn't even try.
(Again, I don't understand how this is debatable)

I hope you got everything off your chest. Since I didn't discuss any of the points you made, you have no idea what I think about them.

I will refute one point. Ukraine has a west side and an east side. The west side leans toward Europe and the east leans toward Russia. Ukraine had an elected president that tried to play things down the middle but he was overthrown in what was likely a CIA/State Dept sponsored rebellion and a President favorable to the West was installed.
What did Biden do or not do that provoked Putin? I still haven't seen you mention that.
 

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Ukraine Threatens 5-Year Prison Sentence For Anyone Voting In "Sham Referendums" | ZeroHedge

How democratic of the Ukraine government.

Will The United States and NATO Wake Up To What Happened at the Meeting of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization? - LewRockwell LewRockwell.com

Try to get out of the left vs. right false dichotomy media narratives and look for truth and facts they are hiding from you.
This isn’t a left vs right thing. This is a Commies trying to steal territory vs the only good Commie is a dead Commie thing.

I really couldn’t care less about Ukraine, but Russia has been trying to put them back in shackles since they day after they were forced to let them off the plantation in the 90s, and they shouldn’t be allowed to succeed.
 

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I'd like to believe that, but personally I think he hasn't really committed his air force. I think they're trying to avoid mass casualties to their air force, but once they do they will gain air superiority and then they'll just carpet bomb until Ukraine capitulates.
I kind of agree. I think they tried to establish low cost air superiority. I don't think they've attempted the more costly version where they sacrifice a lot of aircraft in order to completely destroy Ukraine's air defenses.
That’s the thing: everything Russia has tried in this latest adventure has been the low-rent version because, as we’re finding out, that’s all they got.

Yes, Russia surely has more military, from all branches, that they can pour into this thing, but that’s the case of every military in every war. The last time we were fully mobilized, in WWII, some 75% of our forces at any given time were still right here at home. A country being invaded can only mobilize something like 25-50% of its forces to the front- dependent on geography and logistics. An invading force that has sent even 5-10% of its boots to a front is already “fully deployed”.

For some perspective on how bad @MoonRiver ’s team is failing right now, the Russian fatality count is somewhere between 6,000 and 30,000; 6k being the number Russia admits, 30k being the number Ukraine claims. We can fully expect that both sides are lying, but can’t be sure to what degree.

So, let’s take Russia’s 6,000 figure, for a best-case, never-gonna-happen, Putin’s-one-good-night’s-sleep-in-seven-months-wet-dream -scenario.

If, in only seven months, Russia has lost 6k fighters, that’s almost half what they lost in nine years in Afghanistan. It’s roughly how many we lost in both Iraq AND Afghanistan in 20 years.

Russia started this invasion trying to me-too the US’ “shock and awe” campaigns that we launched in Iraq I, Iraq II and Afghanistan. They started with air and indirect-fire operations, and still failed to sufficiently soften a primary objective enough for their armor chains to be able to take anything west or south of Kyiv, and still had to pull back from the Kyiv offensive in 30 days.

30 days.

They were supposed to have Kyiv in 72 hours, and be negotiating with an in-hand Zelenskyy within the week.

Why did they fail? Two reasons.

1- Russia sucks at everything (sorry, Moon, I should have given you a trigger warning to look away)

2- The west, not wanting to get its hands bloody but see Europe get back to money-printing stability, for the more-equals ASAP, loaded the Ukrainians up with expensive indirect-fire surface-to-surface and surface-to-air weapons.

Russia has had its ass handed to it via a reverse shock-and-awe campaign funded by expensive western weaponry because the western bankers just want this little kerfluffle to go away so they can get back to marching toward digital currencies with expiration dates and mandatory vaccines against boo-boos.

Russia has experienced troop fatality-counts at a rate of 10x their last real war, and at a daily velocity they haven’t seen since Stalingrad. And, and this is the point, they tried to pull a US and exert their dominance via overwhelming technology, from the start. The losses they’ve seen, astounding as they are, have been weighted more heavily toward their Air and Armor corps.

If Putin is now telling the old men to report to their nearest armory to be issued a Nagant, the guy behind them getting the spare stripper, he’s certainly not throwing back shots of vodka with his best fighter pilots, gaming out how they’re going to win this thing.

He’s already gone last-ditch. He’s literally asking the small territory he’s captured to hold a referendum on who’s side they want to be on and, when they inevitably choose their occupier’s side, threatening to launch nukes if the Ukrainians challenge his claim.

Putin is done, and he’s narcissistic enough to insist on taking the world with him. The only thing left to determine is if he’s sufficiently insulated himself from soldiers willing to refuse an order and put him down.
 

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@GunMonkeyIntl I think that number is closer to 54K now. That seems to be the last number I read. There was a Russian document obtained, don't know how vetted it was, but it dealt with the payouts for the Russian casualties in Ukraine. According to the math the number came to over 40K. The LDR/DNR deaths would not be part of those counts. Nor with Wagner be part of those counts.
 
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