When running a line that long you might need a transformer at your house instead of 1/4 mile away. Something you may want to consider. It will be substaintially cheaper letting the power company run the line and put a transformer to your house. I just had a similar situation on my place in Maine.

 

We'll research the necessary cabling/transformer etc, but the utility company won't run power underground for more than 150' (at our expense) much less 1/4 mile.

 

...............I think the problem you will encounter from the electric company is that they will not allow you to effectively connect onto their 7200 volt supply line and then run that voltage over YOUR wires . This is why they will require that you provide them with a ROW as without such they can't legally work on Your poles or your wires . And , your nor your husband will be willing to climb the poles and fix the problems should you have any . Probably be better to set up a solar system with good diesel generator . , fordy

 

The farthest part of your electrical system must be within 300 ft of the transformer. Otherwise there is significant voltage loss. So if the electric company will not run underground to the transformer then you are stuck with overhead wires and a right of way or create your own. You might run the overhead next to the road to get part of the necessary clearance. Welcome to the world of creating your own place.

 

I don't know how it works where you live but here the electric company is responsible for everything up to and including the meter. Grandma has a pole with a transformer in front of her house, nearly 1/4 mile lane, and when the transformer went out, she didn't get charged one cent for it's replacement.

Underground lines just aren't an option because the electric companies here won't do them.

 

Actually, your electric company, _might_ let you install your own duct bank, and put a pad mount transformer at your house... or rather, let an electrical contractor put it in. Did two jobs like that when I was still in dirt work. The property owner contracted the ductbank.

Unless you are quite rich, I doubt you'll be able to afford that. Ductbank for 7200V for would be 1/4mile of 4" pvc pipe, 1/4 mile of very expensive wire, enough concrete to give 3" of cover on all sides of the pipe for 1/4 mile, and of course digging and backfilling 1/4 of ditch. Even if you were running only about 300 feet yourself of 240v, the wire alone for 300 feet would well over $2000 with the way copper prices are, let alone ductbank and wires suitable for 7200V for 1/4 mile.

I agree with the other poster about having the electric company do some overhead work up to a point, then perhaps going underground once you are close enough to the house. My electric company will do overhead for free up to a 1/4 mile.

Four years ago I did about what you want to do, but at only 200 feet. I used direct burial wire, did ALL the work myself, and still spent about $2500 by the time I rented the backhoe, bought the wire, the meter base, the panels, etc.

 

You are going to have to go underground primary with a transformer and meter at your house. I personally can't see how an electric utility provider will allow you (even if you buy the wire, transformer and install to their specs) to connect a privately owned primary service to their service. You also might be aware that without a R-O-W easement you are responsible for all maintenance and VERY FEW licensed electricians are licensed to work on primary electric. 6-10 KV is not something the average homeowner can troubleshoot and repair.....that stuff has a 10 foot clearance (meaning if you are within 10 feet of an open energized conducter you are in the strike zone). If you are dead set on no easements, go with an alternative energy source and no landline phones.

 

We haven't had a land line phone in years. We had planned to go off the grid, but aren't sure it isn't going to be just as expensive. The well is probably the biggest issue. We have little wind, and our well will likely be around 400', average for the area.

 

I would take a good, long look at the alternatives. Seems that many folks have had the same issue with the costs of getting the grid to the house. That's what made my decision..

As for the well, design for water storage at ground level either in a cistern or some sort of tank. A 15KW generator and a standard submersible pump can get the water out of the well with ease. After that, It can be pressurized via low voltage/low wattage pumps..

My phone company gave me a drop on a pole that was on the border of my property. I ran almost 1/2 mile of wire from the house to that pole and made connection. I am responsible for the run that I installed to the conection point at the pole..

Off grid and frugal goes hand in hand. If you plan to operate large machinery, the grid is the way to go.
~Don

 

Actually, you don't need to run anything through a duct. The underground cable they use now for primary is already self-contained in a bendable plastic tube. All that needs to be done is for it to be laid in a four foot ditch padded with screening. The actually putting in of the cable, should only take a half hour for a 1/4 mile run. Then you fire up your rent-a-hoe and cover everything up. On your end, you'll have a pad-mount transformer with secondaries running from that to your home. On the other, a riser going up the pole and tapping onto the primary at the street. This is a two day job.

Find a lineman, offer cash under the table and things might happen lol.

 

If you stick with underground you need to find out from people in the area what causes problems. I've heard of several neighborhoods that have had problems with the underground for the first few years due to ground settling. I've also heard of tree roots causing problems or ground water.

The power company may or may not be the one that has to fix the lines if there is a problem before the house. People found out the hard way that not all the outside stuff for the power was the power companies responsibility.

 

We haven't had a land line phone in years. We had planned to go off the grid, but aren't sure it isn't going to be just as expensive. The well is probably the biggest issue. We have little wind, and our well will likely be around 400', average for the area.

Off grid installation would be more expensive, but by the time you pay to have all that service run from a 1/4 mile away for on grid, you would have paid a purty good chunk of money that could have been used for solar/wind power.

However, I think that a combination of both grid, solar, and wind power is the ideal setup. Most likely if the sun ain't shinning then the wind will be blowing. Today I have both. So if I was set up right, I would probably be selling some power back to the electric company.

 

When we put our electric in (2004), we didn't want poles either. The total run of the wire was right at 500', We put in the breaker box and left wires for them to hook up. They trenched the line, installed the transformer, ran the lines and billed us $650. They still have responsibility for everything from the meter out, so they can still come on your property. For a 1/4 mile stretch, you'd be talking BIG bucks. I'd probably run poles. They won't be on the easement much anyway. Before we got the "smart" meters that signal the usage out, they drove in once a month to read the meter anyway.

 

I doubt that you will be able to accomplish what you are wanting to achieve. However, you do not want the line under the roadbed. You will want the burial to be parallel to the road and a few feet to on side. This will keep the traffic from loading the wire with the over burden and possible pushing a stone into the wire. I have a similar setup for my power coming in and I have a run that is around 1400 feet however I have a transformer centrally located near the house and the main outbuildings. From the transformer power is then delivered to two main panels. The power company reads the meter remotely and I have no problem with the right of way. The power company also has responsibility for the maintenance all the way in to the meter. My obligation starts at the delivery side of the meter thus I am relieved of a lot of risk should the supply from the main fail. This is not much of a compromise IMO.

 

Let the electric company run poles to within 150 feet of the house then go underground with the rest.
After it's in you probably won't see them on your property again.

 

When we bought our place the previous owner had just spent $15,000 putting in electricity. It was one mile of poles. That was $15,000 in 1985 so multiply it by 5 or 10 now. My brother just looked into putting in grid tie in for 1/3rd mile and the utility company wants $45,000 (two years ago) and my brother is responsible for putting in the trench and then covering it. The utility just lays the cable in the trench and connects it to the transformer and meter.

For that same money I could put in the fanciest solar electric system and be off grid. I would suggest generating your own power. The key is to start by reducing your needs as low as possible so the system won't cost too much. It may then turn out to be cheaper than hooking up to the grid. After that every month you'll be saving more money by not paying for utility electric.

Cheers

-Walter
Sugar Mountain Farm
in the mountains of Vermont
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/blog/
http://HollyGraphicArt.com/
http://NoNAIS.org

 

Wow, lots of different opinions and experiences here. I guess we need to speak with the electric company more.

Running it above ground isn't a big deal, it won't cost much at all to do that, they'll pay for most of it. However, we just don't want the poles/easement on the land, it's so unsightly to look at it where they clear all the trees, plus then we run the risk of them branching off of that easement if someone else needs access, and we're the closest access point.

We'd be willing to spend $20k or so on an offgrid setup, if it would adequately supply our needs. What we don't want to do is spend a chunk on the system, only to have to supplement it with a bunch of propane plus fuel for a genset.

When we have to run our RV off the genset, it costs us around $30 a day, plus our propane use.

 

If its like it is around here, the electric company just wont provide service unless you sign an easement. That simple. And if somebody then past your place wants electric, they have the right to run lines through your land anywhere they want. Dont like the way they do buisiness, then produce your own power. Which isnt bad idea anymore as fast as energy prices are rising. Over last couple years my electric bill has doubled and not from me using more electricity.

 

They "Can" run the line underground for a quarter mile... whether they'd do it, is another question. They would require an easement. The housing development bordering my place has a primary pole/wire line around the perimeter of the development, and underground wires down all of the side roads, some as long as 3/4 mile.

The easement shouldn't be a problem, if the wires are underground... they can be laid in the side ditches. If you're worried about neighbors hooking on, and creating a 'development zone' :grump: , make sure you're lines are a certain distance away from property boundaries.

Underground lines are more expensive than poles/wires, but if you had to clear out a lot of rugged terrain's timber/brush, it might equalize out.... also aesthetics have a certain value. I wish that I'd had underground wires the last 1/4 mile to my house...

Running your own lines underground from a transformer a 1/4 mile would probably cost more than your land... and the power losses would be horrendous. Really not feasible.

 

I'm missing something here. Out here on the farms, I have a 1/3 mile driveway, & mine is short. Some have a mile drive. The transformer needs to be by the buildings, so they really have to run their high voltage to the yard.

My REA would supply overhead for 'free', or underground 4000 (or 72000, or whatever it is these days) volt feed to the middle of my yard for 50 cents a foot.

I don't know how they can limit you to 150 feet from the road. In a ruial area.

My buildings are scattered, got 2 runs over 400 feet from the transformer. Takes some _real big_ cable to supply 200 amp service for that distance. Don't know that you can afford to run 240v cable for a 1/4 mile. You would need to run the step transformers, which is not cheap. Really, you need to run the high voltage into your yard, & the transformer there.

The REA burring armored cable 4 feet deep down the center of the driveway into my yeard, 700 feet I think it was. Heck of a cable. Made a mess of the driveway with the vibrating blade, but I'm happy.

Anyhow, something just doesn't seem right. To be in buisness, they need to bring power to where you need it, not just drop it off on the side of the road. Is there some sort of argument between you 2, they want to go overhead, or they want you to have public easement to continue the line, or some such?

--->Paul

 

Actually, you don't need to run anything through a duct. The underground cable they use now for primary is already self-contained in a bendable plastic tube. All that needs to be done is for it to be laid in a four foot ditch padded with screening. The actually putting in of the cable, should only take a half hour for a 1/4 mile run. Then you fire up your rent-a-hoe and cover everything up. On your end, you'll have a pad-mount transformer with secondaries running from that to your home. On the other, a riser going up the pole and tapping onto the primary at the street. This is a two day job.

Find a lineman, offer cash under the table and things might happen lol.

I have _never_ seen primary run UG without concrete (other than some backyard work in houston, though I have done alot of fiber optic like the above. Then again, I have been out of dirt work for four years now.

 

My brother just looked into putting in grid tie in for 1/3rd mile and the utility company wants $45,000 (two years ago) and my brother is responsible for putting in the trench and then covering it. The utility just lays the cable in the trench and connects it to the transformer and meter.

I believe that. I look at the cost analysis on some of my projects and we're talking sometimes 5-7K a pole! I don't know all the technicals nor do I bid work but by my uneducated estimate, when pay, insurance, fuel, profit, is all factored in, I would say work is being done at least; I'd say $500 an hour. Then there was the "$17,000 pole." That is how much it cost to replace a single pole one time during storm work. All it had on it was a three phase arm, no less.

If the soil conditions are favorable, I would definitly go underground. Problems are just simply reduced significantly. The power company will charge by the foot laid for the cable although most of the actual time will be spent on making the splices in the transformer and at the pole. Put it this way, underground can be fairly economical OR massively expensive, all depends on the soil and terrain; there isn't too much in between.

I take an interest in all of this because I plan on installing my own system in a few/next years once I get my house project up and running. A lot easier to build a house with on site electric available. I check ebay every so often for supplies. I've seen some good transformers there on the cheap.

As a final bit of advise, all I can say to save money for someone who has no idea what is going on, is to try to dig whatever is needed by yourself whether trenches or holes. If poles are being put in, a surveyor will come out and steak where the poles are going. Call the power company up to find the length of poles being put in then dig holes about 2ft in diameter at 10%+2 deep (Ex. 40ft pole would need to be set at 4+2=6ft deep). I remember one old geezer dug 14 holes to his house and probably saved over half the money. These holes were is rocky conditions no less so the savings to him were substantial. A lot cheaper to rent an auger and have one man grind away at rock than to have a four man crew, with all the strings attached, from the power company come out. Then you are paying $500 an hour for what amounts to one guy keeping his hand on the "dig" lever.

 

I have _never_ seen primary run UG without concrete (other than some backyard work in houston, though I have done alot of fiber optic like the above. Then again, I have been out of dirt work for four years now.

I've only seen concrete used on industrial applications where large 750+ cable is being ran through ducts.

That reminds me, remember to run other services in the same ditch. I believe there is suppose to be a specific clearance between the fiber and power but from what I've seen, those fiber guys don't give half a care. Must not make a difference then, I suppose. I can't help you on that side of things but all that stuff is self enclosed in a tube also, bright orange.

PS: I had to include a cheap jab

 

I've only seen concrete used on industrial applications where large 750+ cable is being ran through ducts.

That reminds me, remember to run other services in the same ditch. I believe there is suppose to be a specific clearance between the fiber and power but from what I've seen, those fiber guys don't give half a care. Must not make a difference then, I suppose. I can't help you on that side of things but all that stuff is self enclosed in a tube also, bright orange.

PS: I had to include a cheap jab

Well most of the companies I worked for did government/industrial mostly, and perhaps we just went overboard on our few res jobs.


Lol, I've done both, but I've pulled way more wire than I've ever plowed in fiber. I've done a bit of overhead work as well, but realized I was too fat to be 50ft off the ground on gaffs.

 

C.J. I see you are in Ozarks. We had 1/2 mile underground thru Ozark Electric CO-OP out of Mt. Vernon, MO. This was in Lawrence Co. Not cheep, talk to the engineer from your electric co-op He will have the answers for you. Glenn