[QueenB04]

Hey everyone,

So I went out for routine feeding lastnight, got around to my boar and proceeded to give him his nightly hose down after yet another near 100 degree day. Everything was normal, he was running around playing in the water and then I noticed his left hind foot. There is now (and I promise you it was not there two days ago and my husband fed the night before) a 2inch high, 3 inch wide growth on his leg. It's one of the most bizarre looking growths I have ever seen, honestly looks like a sea urchin in on his ankle. So I go over him some more and notice several small lumps on his scrotum as well, only the left side. He is 3 years old and has is the epitamy of good health, has never once had an issue. I raised him from two weeks old when everyone else gave up on him. He's my piglet, my big 600lbs piglet, with 3 inch tusks.
Now keeping that in mind, here is my dillema. Getting the vet to take me seriously and have the growth looked at. And finding a way to restrain him. I'm figuring building something like a cattle shute would be the best in mind. With the help of a general sedative I think it would be sufficient. Does anyone have any rigs they use?

On another note, I have a bad feeling about this growth. Being as it has litteraly popped up overnight seemingly, and is possibly matastisizing. I have enough experience having worked with a vet to see the difference in benign and malignant cancer growths, this one looks very agressive. I'm certain it's a Squamous Cell Carcinoma, which last year we battled with a rescued Appaloosa gelding who lost his fight in Sept. The damage was already done in his case, but to the agressive nature of this form of cancer...well it's quick, but prolonged at the same time. I don't know what I am going to do. He's my baby, but the reality of treating such a large animal, who by all means is gentle, but can also get frustrated easily is just not something I want to fight with if this requires prolonged treatment. It's not fair to him. I also want to give him everything I've got. Hard choices, once the vet comes out this weekend and gave confirm my suspicions my choice will be easier. It's difficult, and I won't have him put down right away if it is malignant, but I won't make him suffer either.
*sighs* The joy of owning livestock. I know alot of people on these forums think of their animals as just that, part of a business and a loss is money more then grief, but please understand that all of our animals are those who were given second chances, and are loved and cared for. In return they provide us with some income, but mostly they give us joy. We have always had a healthy return from this result. So please if you're going to post about how a bullet is cheaper then any medical proceedure don't waste your time it falls on deaf ears here. Thanks ya'll, sorry for the vet along with the question, just a hard blow here on the farm.

 

[Up North]

Last winter we had to treat a 700 pound Boar, and found it necessary to restrain him for giving the shots. We accomplished this by attaching a 5 foot high tubular steel cattle gate in the corner of a wooden plank horse stall.
When the Boar walked into corner for his cracked corn meal, we swung the gate around, to where it formed a narrow triangular pen in the corner of box stall so Boar could not lunge forward or sideways. We then administered shots thru the cattle gate between pipes.
Boar grumbled and was unhappy, but treatment was accomplished, saved his life, and no injury to Boar or us.
PS for that size Boar all surrounding sides & gate will need to be 5 foot high, otherwise he will jump the fence and escape.

 

[piglady]

I'm sorry to hear about your boar but it may not be as bad as you think. We get our pigs comfortable with a belly rub and then give a quick shot in the neck. Maybe the vet could give him the shot first to sedate him and then do what needs to be done. As for the bullet in the head, I completely understand. I don't think any of us would be doing this if we didn't love animals first. Goodness knows there is more money in just about anything other than farming.

 

[QueenB04]

Up North: We have a small building inside the smaller pig lot accompanying his lot. This is where our sows would farrow. It's a small building but tall thankfuly, so maybe we can rig it this way. Marlon is a jumper, never thought something built like a hog could jump so gracefuly but they can. He'll listen to me, and if there is something tasty his attention would be on it, but he can get scared and frustrated sometime. This poor boy got one of his tusks hung in the fence and was pinching his lip between the tusk and the fence. You honestly would of thought he was dying listening to him. All he had to do was move his head down an inch and all would be well. My husband litteraly stood on his head trying to get him to budge.....nope. So we had to cut out a square of fence to free him. Quite sad really. The good news is we know he is patient, but he's also stubborn, and does not like to be in tight places. Thanks for this thought we'll see how it goes. How did you attach the gate and keep it secured? I would use someone else but there is no one within 75 who is large animal, or practices outside of equine specialties. My vet is actually small animal but sees all my guys for me if it's beyond what I can do at home.

Piglady: I could definitely give him the shot no problem. And the one vet, who I worked for would let me do it. Problem is is that he is nearly 80. His new vet, who I despise and the feeling mutual towards me, is incompetent to treat anything that is alive. This is who I'm afraid would come out, the stupid girl was scared of her wits of our nearly 30, blind gelding who couldn't of fought his way out of a wet paper bag if he could of seen it bless his heart. She wrote him off and never even looked at the growth and by this time he still looked perfectly healthy. I was the one who had to pull and submit all his blood panels, and I came up with his comfort plan, she told me I was wasting my time. Plus I have lost 4 animals all to her direct incopetence. I could rant on her all day. But anyways, if I can give him the shot and it will knock him down for a while I would feel better about Doc coming in with him. But if my only choice is for her to come out he'll be better off living with cancer.

 

[Up North]

On the hinge end of gate, we used thick fencing brace wire and wired loops around a Wooden post that was part of barn structure. We left just enough slack in wire loops so we could swing gate to sweep the boar into his triangular pen. Once the gate was shut tight on him, we used the chain on gate around a plank and hooked it back to the gate. Then we tied that end of gate with a rope also for added security.
The whole trick is to shut and secure gate swiftly while Boar is distracted eating his treats. Hogs are smart enough that if they suspect a trap they will bulldoze you and the gate over and be gone.
The enclosure must have structural integrity for this to work. If Boar can get his snout under bottom rail of gate or a plank, he may just rip a plank off and force his way out.

 

[QueenB04]

Wind In Her Hair: Under normal circumstances I would be inclined to agree, but after much examination lastnight it's the only growth I can come to a conclusion on. We have worked on several cases where is has been on cattle in non typical places. I am certain a biopsy would confirm SCC. Most cases yes, are associated with mucous membranes, or the mucocutaneous junctions, but this is not the set standard. In some cases lesions that are not caused by direct sun damage will grow on the digits or lower extremeties of animals. They can also be found in the core of a horn. His first year in the lot he spent quite a bit of time out in the sun and actually lost alot of his hair. Even with additional screens we put over the pen, and a roof my husband built to give him more shade then the trees and his box were providing him with, he still stayed where he could get constant sun. As a result he did have some areas of lichenification and hyperkeratosis, including the legs. Ears, mouth, nose, eyes, penis, anus are fine as far as I can tell. But the lesion looks remarkably similar to those I have had experience with before, and most closely associated with out Appy who passed away last year. It is a very distinct looking cell growth.

 

[QueenB04]

UpNorth: Thank you so much, we have a similar set up in that case and can most definitely get the gate cinched tight. Thanks so much!

 

[QueenB04]

Win: He's half Hampshire, Half Duroc. He's all red except for a white belt across his shoulder, and a snip on the RIGHT back leg, of things! I appreciate your thoughts. I'll try to get a picture of it tonight. It was a sore looking lesion lastnight, but wasn't as irritated looking this morning. It just has those little nodules that are classic SCC. I really hate cancer, god bless the people who go through it.

 

[RedHogs]

Research PCV2, you're in my neck of the woods and we are getting the hardest hit with circo.....

 

[QueenB04]

Redhogs: I'm familiar with PCV2 and I have heard it's been affecting alot of folks not too far off from us. Where are you exactly. I am certain that this is not the case. No respiratory problems, he's virile as can be trust me, kidney and G.I. tract perfect, appetite is fine, no temp. Just growths. I took pics but I left my cable at work so I will download them tomorrow.

Wind: I'll have pics up tomorrow. It looks larger tonight honestly. Maybe I'm making it up, but I'm not paranoid about things like that. I'm a bit upset, but after having dealt with many cases before, and especially having dealt with it personally through our gelding I know what works to keep them comfortable. It upsets me to think of loosing him, he's my baby, but it's my responsibility to keep him comfortable and know when there is nothing more I can do. It's frustrating, but it's also reality and all you can do is deal with it as it comes. He's happy, so I'm happy, when he's not I won't be either. I'd appreciate any thoughts on the growths so I'll look forward to posting pics first thing in the morning. The growths in the testicle don't quite look like SCC, but the growth on the foot looks like it, just very spiny with all the little nodules. I'll post first thing in the morning. Thanks ya'll!

 

[RedHogs]

Redhogs: I'm familiar with PCV2 and I have heard it's been affecting alot of folks not too far off from us. Where are you exactly. I am certain that this is not the case. No respiratory problems, he's virile as can be trust me, kidney and G.I. tract perfect, appetite is fine, no temp. Just growths. I took pics but I left my cable at work so I will download them tomorrow.

Well thats what i'm talking about....pvc2 is only hyper acute in a very few...isolated cases....I have gone to various seminars...Listened to lectures of the top speakers on the subject, and they will openly say...."science is years from understanding this new virus...we just don't know enough about it"

I believe with all the fear, many things not pcv2 are being group in with the virus, but body leasions on mature hogs are a symptom, it only kills the growers usually.

That being said, I've had hogs get small cuts that fester and look bad and totally recover in a few weeks, I give your chances of full recovery to be probably 90%, colored hogs just don'r have many sun related problems.

 

[QueenB04]

Wind: You're going to have to give me until tonight or tomorrow to post pics. We had a bad storm roll through at about 12:30 and lost some trees on top of fence. DH and I were fixing fences at 2:00am, got back in at 5. Needless to say when I left for work I left the camera at home.

Redhogs: True in some cases, but there are generally secondary symptoms associated with PCV2, weightloss you can almost always count on. He hasn't lost an ounce yet. Also with the growth being on the left side of the testicles as well, which resemble Mast Cell Tumors for now associating it with PCV2 would be highly unusual, as PCV2 is usually a generalized, vs localized outbreak. He also does not have any mouth ulcers. As you mentioned adult hogs usually only exhibit very few symptoms. He's fitting the profile right now. With the growths being as they are, SCC fits more with the general profile right now, once the cancer manifests itself it will spread to organs, the left testicle seems to be the first victim. I palpated the masses as well, and PCV2 you will find soft exterior with a solid core, and can usually drain fluid. In his case it's solid throughout the growth, ulcerated, and no fluid will drain. Along with the virus aspect I don't see how he would aquire it. We're very isolated and he's been on his own with the exception of one sow who was we owned since day one, clean healthy good looking sow. We had sold her in Feb. and brought her back to breed in May, she left here in July. She is the only pig where she is now, and they haven't had pigs on their place in 30 years, also very remotely located. Based on my experiences, and from Marlon's case, everything is telling me this is cancer, no rhyme or reason, just cancer. I'll hopefuly get pictures up tonight. Where did you attend the seminar? I wouldn't mind attending one myself.

 

[RedHogs]

I feel bad saying i hope it's cancer, I've had lumps one time and never could explain it.... hopefully he willl get over it, on my farm it's the boars i hate to see go...I spend more time with them and it's always the good ones that get sick.

 

[woody111]

Where are those pics?

 

[woody111]

Pics ?

 

[QueenB04]

Alright, finally recovered after the storm, as promised here are photos.

Note: You may have some problems viewing the pictures, I use geocities and these 2 pics exceeded my hourly limit since I still use the free version. Give it an hr and they'll be up and ready!

 

[RedHogs]

Those have to be external in the dermal....wouldn't you think???

 

[QueenB04]

ReHogs: It is in the dermal layers yes, but it has a solid mass core that extends into glandular tissue. There are 2 distal glands in the leg, where I believe the growth is stemming from, if it is attacking the lymphatic system, or any major gladular tissue, as SCC would, the testes would be a target. The masses have "roots" no doubt, so it's not an external manifestation at this point.

 

[QueenB04]

Wind: Yep, as soon as I saw it my heart just dropped. The pic does not do it justice it honestly looks like a sea urchine on his leg with all the nodules and such. Don't think I have much luck in beating this. I think for now I will let it runs it's cource, doesn't look like the vet that I like will be able to come out, he's going in for surgery. So maybe it's meant to be. The growths on the scrotum have multiplied and are growing, the right side now has about 3 on it, where there were none last week. Frustrating stuff. He's doing well, and all the other glands that I can feel are normal, so fingers crossed it will be slow in progressing if it is agressive. I'm still certain it's SCC, it just fits the profile. As long as he's happy, and healthy that's all I can ask for. Thanks for taking a look and sharing your thoughts.