rejected baby help please

Discussion in 'Goats' started by shelljo, Mar 29, 2006.

  1. shelljo

    shelljo Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Ok, our baby is now 3.5 days old, and we definately know that momma has rejected her. She's the smallest of 4. I brought her to work with me this morning to get a bottle in her, as she kept trying to steal milk from Momma. Sometimes, she was successful, but she hasn't gotten enough. She's much thinner than her siblings.

    Questions for you all

    Can she go back into the pen? I've only got one pen! Can we pull her to feed her and then put her back in with the others?

    Should I pull the other doe kid and bottle feed them both, leaving the two males for momma to feed? (Of course for 4-H, we want to show the male as a meat animal they're boar nubian X)

    She's at work with me now in a box. Any advice on how often I should work the bottle with her?

    Any other advice you can share would be much appreciated.
     
  2. witchysharon

    witchysharon Well-Known Member

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    Oh dear, I see the mom has rejected the baby after all! I left a post for you on the other thread you started about bottle feeding.

    http://homesteadingtoday.com/showthread.php?p=1295570#post1295570

    But....I wouldn't put her in the pen with the mom if you think there is a chance mom could get a little rough with her, as they will sometimes with a kid they've rejected. At least not unsupervised. And since she will be bottle fed and 'alone', it may be better for her if you did pull one of the other kids to bottle feed so they can keep eachother company. Can you keep them in a laundry room or some room in the house while you bottle feed, let them spend time with the other syblings during the day (supervising how mom interacts with the rejected one), and let them spend nights in the house until they get bigger? Or can hubby partition the one pen into two pens and keep the doe kids you are bottle feeing on one side and mom/bucklings on the other?

    I believe the link to Fiasco Farm on the other thread has a schedule as how often and how much to feed her.

    In a box at work?? LOL so has everyone else fallen in love with this baby goat? They may all want to help take turns feeding her?? ;)
     

  3. shelljo

    shelljo Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Sharon

    I did read your post on the other thread. So, I'm tossing the replacer and will go to the store for milk. Think I'll cut the nipple a little bigger. I've got a big dog kennel--plastic one that we might be able to put the kids in. (I'll pull the other one at noon. She might come to work with me too!)

    I think I"ll put the girls in the pen with Momma again tonight and see what she does. I'll watch her for a while. Then, decide if the girls need to stay in the house for a few days till we can get them a pen built. Maybe we can build one in the goat barn. My guess is once they think I'm the mom, they'll leave their goat mom alone as they get bigger and can rejoin the population. (right?)
     
  4. Sweet Goats

    Sweet Goats Cashmere goats

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    I am sorry that she rejected her. I would NOT keep her in the pen wit hmom at all. One of my 4Hers mom goats just killed another goat, and she was bigger not just 3.5 days old. Can you hold mom and have the baby nurse on her a few times a day?
    Good Luck
     
  5. witchysharon

    witchysharon Well-Known Member

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    I have to agree with sweet goats about not putting them with mom at all. I would be leary of leaving them with mom overnight because mom could very well behave while you are there watching, but could get aggressive during the night. She could easily kill this baby, and this little one has nowhere to run to get away from her in a pen.

    It will be much easier for them to join the 'herd' if they are exposed to the rest of the herd and mom/siblings as they are growing.....and why a pen next to mom/brothers would be ideal. They will be able to see eachother, smell eachother and get used to eachother without the danger of anyone getting injured or killed. And when you are home, you can always let them mingle with the other goats under your watchful eye, seperating them when they can't be supervised. I see no reason why they can't rejoin the herd later when they get somewhat bigger.
     
  6. marvella

    marvella Well-Known Member

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    yes. the doe will kill them. it's seen as a threat to the survival of the rest, so often the youngest, weakest gets sacrificed. it's the way of the world. make sure you get colostrum in her, just to make sure, and just keep working with the nipple, she'll get it eventually! i've taken one to work with me too (am very lucky to have such a tolerant boss.) yes, everyone fell in love, named him billy g. the whole place mourned when he died a few days later. there's a ton of good info on here!!
     
  7. shelljo

    shelljo Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Okay, you guys have convinced me not to put her back at all. Guess We will put the extra large kennel in until DH has time to help me and DS to build a pen inside the barn. Just sad that these siblings won't get to play together--all 4 of them. They were just starting to jump around and such last night. So fun to watch. Maybe we'll do "play dates." (Oh, I have it bad... :baby04: )

    DH did say he'd help me try to milk the mom, but she did take 2 oz of cows milk finally. Finally got her to suck on that bottle. She's sleeping now.
     
  8. goatmarm

    goatmarm Well-Known Member

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    I agree w/ the prev. posts. Let the kid socialize, but supervised. We had a doe reject her little doe kid at birth this year, but the same doe fawns all over her buck kid that was born first. We brought the bottlebaby in the house in a large dog crate, and take her out to play whenever we go out to do chores. She's now doing great, and has finally begun to catch up sizewise.
    The other milker we have who had twin does has actually tried to crush this little doe kid by cornering her then kneeling on top of her. If I wasn't right there and heard the kid let out a little squeek, I am sure the doe would have killed her. Don't leave the milkers unattended with a baby that they have rejected! They can and will be brutal!
    Eventually the kid will be big and quick enough to dodge the attacks from the larger goats. It is important they see her, so that she can be accepted as a herd member. She'll be the lowest ranked goat for a while, but at least she's alive.
    Pulling one of the other kids will help with the baby thriving. They always do better w/company, and it might make blending them back into the herd easier too.
     
  9. goatmarm

    goatmarm Well-Known Member

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    Shelljo,
    Definitely do play dates! The baby needs that interaction! You CAN put them all out together, just keep a wary eye on the big does. If you keep this baby completely separated, she may get depressed! Also, the more the little kid smells like the rest of the herd, the easier it will be for her to be accepted.
     
  10. goatkid

    goatkid Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I never leave 4 kids on a doe. I usually just leave two. What happens is that the doe gets overwhelmed with that many babies trying to suckle at one time and it's not unusual for her to walk away from them all. I recently had to pull a Nubian doeling for that reason. I left the 2 bucklings on mom. She had triplets. I have a baby pen for orphans and kids from large litters.
     
  11. deetu

    deetu Well-Known Member

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    Boy, I guess I am lucky because I had a bottle baby that once she got established on the bottle, I put her in with all the goats because I noticed that the kids would hang near the barn and the moms would brouse in the woods. She would run for the bottle and not bother the goat moms (could that be a reason the other moms attacked? The baby tried to nurse off them?) I remember the one time I returned the bottle baby and she cried for her brothers and cousins. One of them called to her, run back, got her, then they both ran into the wood together to hang with the herd.
     
  12. Goat Freak

    Goat Freak Slave To Many Animals

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    Here, I posted on your other thread, but here it is again. http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/showthread.php?t=108594 Once again, post #27 has the recipe that me and my mom used on our orphaned baby, and it worked GREAT, the thread also has methods to get the baby to take the bottle, which helped us as well. Good Luck with the little one, I will be praying for her. Good Luck. Bye.
     
  13. Laura Workman

    Laura Workman (formerly Laura Jensen) Supporter

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    You can go down to the feed store and for about $45, buy two combo stock panels. The are 16 feet long. Cut as needed to make a 4-sided pen for these kids. 6 feet by 10 feet works nicely. Frequently, the feed store guys will cut the panels for you so they're easier to transport. You can join the sides together with cable ties. Stabilise by cable-tying to a barn post or T-post or whatever you have. Leave one corner open for a gate, and use 2 clips, like on a dog leash, to secure the gate. Presto! For a little over $50, you have a new pen for 2 kids that you can take apart for storage.

    A large dog crate is WAY too small even at this age. Those kids need to be able to move around and play a bit. I don't know what your current arrangement is, but if you make the pen adjoining the other goats, reintroduction won't be so hard when the time comes.
     
  14. shelljo

    shelljo Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Laura

    We are hoping to build a pen this weekend, although DH is resisting the thought. (I will win!) I just put her in the dog kennel last night with one of her siblings. That way she'd have company, they'd remember her scent, and it kept her away from her dam. With our dogs being in the house at night, and with one of them killing our other doe last month, I just didn't want her in the house.

    She didn't take much milk yesterday, fought that nipple to much. Today, she decided to really go for it and is already looking better and acting so much better! She's full of ---- and vinegar! Gets lots of attention here at the library too.

    So, I'm feeling more confident that she'll make it. Just have to figure out what to do with her while we're gone during the day next week.

    Oh, I told my MIL that we'll just have to bring her out at easter time and asked if I could bring her into MIL's house. The silence on the phone was priceless! I won't really do that, but it was fun to get her reaction.

    Thanks for the help everyone. Now I just have to work on DH to build a kid pen...big enough for all. I wonder, can I put the nursing kids in a pen with my bottle baby and just let them out to nurse when I feed a bottle to this baby? Anybody have any success with that?