? Re Dog Breeds for Protection/Early Warning

Discussion in 'Working and Companion Animals' started by Lawbag, Jan 1, 2006.

  1. Lawbag

    Lawbag Well-Known Member

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    I have 6 dogs, all of whom are pampered inside pets. 3 of the little snotty-nosed mop dogs and 3 herding breeds. After last night, I've decided we need a couple outside guard dogs - not necessarily attack dogs, but ones smart and big enough to protect themselves while running free on our property, and hopefully to deter trespassers and nasty neighbors.

    One of the neighbors (long story, but we've had problems with neighbors harassing us, I didn't see the person, but know it was one of them, probably the teenager, as it was someone on foot and the border collie followed the smell to the neighbors drive when I took her out afterwards, then the neighbors started driving up and down their drive 15 minutes later at 3:30 in the morning while we were talking to the police) threw a rock threw my bedroom and glass shattered all over the floor and part of my bed while I was sleeping. Luckily we weren't cut. We found another large rock outside my mother's bedroom window, but it didn't break the glass. The only dog that growled or barked before the glass shattered was the little mop dog that sleeps with my mom. I'm really disappointed in them as the person had to be on our property to hit the house. Usually they all bark and carry on if something is near the house. Anyway, I'm looking for advice on what breeds to get. I want them to be able to sleep outside and run the property near the house at night, smart enough not to bark neeedlessly but able to warn us if someone crosses into our territory, and affectionate towards us and the other dogs, but not friendly towards strangers. Mom says no pit bulls and brother doesn't want Rotties (I love rotties myself). Oh, we have poultry and will be getting pigs and goats, so it can't be a breed known for killing farm animals. Sorry, this is kinda long, but I had a rough night with little sleep so I'm rambling. TIA.
     
  2. GrannySyl

    GrannySyl Member

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    I have 3 dogs, "Miss Lilly" is a 152 pound Great Dane she is a bis sissy (hides if anyone raises thier voice) but, her size is a good deterent.

    Jake is a boxer, he might love them to death, but he does have a "tough guy" look.

    "Rotten Red" is a dog pound rescue that scares the begeebers out of everyone because he barks, snarls and does not let anyone out of thier car until I go outside. He is probably part Chow, ( black spots on his tongue & similar coat) but he is smaller than most chows Iv'e seen and not very muscular. He is about the size of a Border Collie.
    But he is a first class alarm system.
     

  3. jill.costello

    jill.costello Well-Known Member

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    My German Shepherds have the run of the farm, and NEVER leave our 15 acres- they feel it is their "duty" to protect their yard.

    Trust me, no one will come onto your property with GSDs at large!
     
  4. longshadowfarms

    longshadowfarms Well-Known Member

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    Personally, I'm partial to rescued Pyrenees but you'd really need good fencing or they'd be all over the county. Check out www.lgd.org for a great place to start research on the LGD breeds. Since I can't find the link off LGD, I'll put this in separately:
    http://www.lgd.org/stories/DaemonIntro.htm is required reading if you think any LGD will be perfect immediately.
     
  5. Pops2

    Pops2 Well-Known Member

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    sounds like the perfect setting for a LGD. be aware that if the neighbors are doing this they will probably kill the dog & other stock. what you really need is some rock salt shotgun shells and a good place to sit & hide then blast the little poopheads when they come around. make sure the shotgun is a loaner from a friend & take it right back that night & DENY everything. in my younger & less patient days i would have firebombed their cars in broad daylight w/ them watching and then had a dozen friends testify i couldn't have done it because i was a two hour drive away at the time.
     
  6. Rouen

    Rouen Well-Known Member

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    my vote goes for an english mastiff or an antolian, if you go with an LGD you have to be the top dog, you can get mastiffs with less dominanting temperments though.
     
  7. Maura

    Maura Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Your neighbors will kill the dog, IMHO. If they don't kill it, they will injure it in some way. When they come onto your property and get bitten, they will sue you.

    If you really want a dog that will bark a warning, leave a couple of your dogs outside at night. As long as they have shelter, and you don't leave them out on bitterly cold nights, they will be fine. The dogs can take turns being on guard duty. You can even keep them in a kennel, you'll hear them bark, but they are less likely to get shot or poisoned.
    When they start barking, turn on all your outside lights. If you don't have outside lights, put up a couple. Don't use one that is on at all times as it isn't a good deterrent to this type of criminal. You want to flick one switch and have the porch light, a back light, and a light on either side of the house come on.

    Make a police report everytime one of them (or "someone") messes with you-- create a paper trail.
     
  8. Bresias

    Bresias Restless User

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    I can't add to the previous great advice on guard dogs (learned much tho).

    Maura's post about flipping lights on makes me think of motion detector lights. They can be strategically placed, and you'd probably only need one or two.

    This is if you choose to keep your current dogs indoors, or the lights would be going off and on all night.

    In any event, having a light suddenly come on in your face when you are up to no good is a deterrant.

    Pops idea about the rock salt buckshot is sure tempting I'll bet.
     
  9. TamInAz

    TamInAz Well-Known Member

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    These are the LGDs we have...2 Anatolians for outside and the Mastiff is inside. They're still pups but in a few more months they'll start being a force to be reckoned with.

    We posted our land w/trespassing signs and dog warning signs to be "nice" <G>. For the more persistant "pests", the rifles are loaded and available to make a loud impression. (We moved up here from a very bad area in the city where we had to be on watch at all times.)
     
  10. catahoula

    catahoula Well-Known Member

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    I had a well bred (purple ribbon) pit bull that wouldn't bite a person on a dare. Your best bet as far as guard dogs go, is to purchase a dog from a breeder that breeds dogs for protection. You'll have to have fences and post signs that say guard dog on duty, and even then you may still catch some heat if your dog bites a person. Dobermans or German shepherds have stood the test of time. In the end it may be easiest to just keep calling the cops. Good luck.
     
  11. Caelma

    Caelma Well-Known Member

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    There are these real reasonable priced driveway warning thingy's (sorry can't think of the name. Ourdoors motion detectors.
    If someone crosses the beam a bell rings in your house like a doorbell.
    Ot can be placed at driveways, walkways, porches, etc.
    I'll try to find the catalog I seen them in, they were quite reasonable priced.

    Maura,s advice is priceless, I'd be afraid the dog would eventually hurt or killed. And if he or she were to bit someone you're in for a law suit.
    Especially if you don't have a totally fenced in yard where you can prove the bit took place in your yard. I would also get a few of those motion sensor lights.
     
  12. Rouen

    Rouen Well-Known Member

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    I think anyone who's willing to go onto someone elses property and throw rocks threw their windows is someone who'll be more than happy to harm someone elses dogs in a kennel, seems more like leaving bait than trying to protect.


    along with posted guard dogs signs getting your dog registered with the town is another good idea.
     
  13. warrior

    warrior Well-Known Member

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    A good hound breed in a kennel that overlooks the approaches to the house. I have a kennel just 30' from my bedroom window and a walker male that has been heard at a known 2 miles. The kennel is on the road side of the lot and he has a view of all normal approaches to the house, the other approaches are by water as I live on a river. The river approaches are covered by a very watchful feist mix that sleeps on the porch. Believe me when I say that nobody sleeps when Rube (the walker) sounds off, though the funny thing is that the english female in the run next to him is more observant though quieter. To cap this off a toy fox terrier sleeps at my feet (under the covers). She has a hair trigger when it comes to other dogs. One bark from outside and she is ready to kick some tail. Of course my canines have the close artillery support of a loaded 30-06 or the anti-personnel 12ga at all times.
     
  14. warrior

    warrior Well-Known Member

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    Personally for the problems described I like the torched vehicle option. Though I rarely feel like taking my wrath out on a totally innocent vehicle though. You can believe that
    if I had the sort of problems described somebody would be in mortal fear of a severe case of lead poisoning.
     
  15. crystalniche

    crystalniche Well-Known Member

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    Train the dogs that you have to "watch" for your troublesome neighbors. It is very easy if you are consistant with it. In a couple of days your dogs will let you know whenever they come into sight. Always carry a few high value treats~~~ones that your dogs would do anything to get some of. Here's how I did it. First I taught my dogs to bark at a certain hand signal, I touch my cheek in a certain way. When they know that this means to bark and you get a treat you go to the next step. It took only 2 sessions for my dogs to "get it" and bark when I signal them. My dogs already knew the "watch me" signal and command so this next step was also easy to get across. To get your dog to watch you simply hold a treat in your hand and bring it up to your face next to your eyes. Tell your dog to "watch me" and when he looks into your eyes praise and treat him. A few times of this and he will watch you for the next command with a hand signal or spoken. Now take your dog/s on a leash and sit on your property where you know that your neighbors will come into sight before long. As soon as you see or hear them you stare hard at that spot and using body language let your dog/s know they are intruders. I growled very low and then gave my dogs the watch me signal. Of course they were very interested in what I was doing. Then I had them watch my neughbor, gave them the bark signal with praise and treats for barking at the neighbors. Repeat a few times with treats and praise for barking will get the point across~~~before long they will alert and come to you for their treats and praise. Of course if they are Border Collies they might just come to the door herding the neighbor along with them.
     
  16. mightybooboo

    mightybooboo Well-Known Member

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    Some fencing around the house with any big dog will alert you.Actually,the Shih Tzu outdoors is a great alarm,mines a better 'watch' dog then most real guard dogs weve ever had,little guy wakes the big guy,who then settles the affair.

    Camera to get some pictures should keep the goons at bay.You need some motion activated cameras.Do a google search. Lots of options.

    I would go GSD or Dobie if you want the dog to actually do some defensive work.Get a monster liability policy on your homeowners insurance and have at em if you feel threatened.Then act shocked when 'Fluffy' and 'Muffy' bites em.
    "I cant believe my innocent babies could do such a thing!"

    http://nomoresocks.newscientist.com/products/product/623/WildlifeMotion-DetectionCamera.htm

    http://www.protectiondepot.com/motioncam.asp

    BooBoo
     
  17. mightybooboo

    mightybooboo Well-Known Member

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    Lawbag,another thought.

    Get a professionally trained guard dog.They are big bucks,but they wont bite willy nilly,yet they will attack if you are in danger and you give the command.

    Consider also a firearm if you are going to confront them.

    You are in a dangerous situation,I would play it real safe and go for overkill on preparations in this situation.

    IMHO,just some thoughts,I really dont know enough details,or your risk level in defensive actions.

    BooBoo
     
  18. mightybooboo

    mightybooboo Well-Known Member

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  19. hisenthlay

    hisenthlay a.k.a. hyzenthlay

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    In general, Dobermans are NOT outdoor dogs. I see you live in FL, so maybe this isn't an issue for you--but Dobermans don't tend to be at all cold hardy. I would think the same is true of Danes and Boxers, but I don't have one myself, so I won't say that for sure. Also, prey drive and trustworthiness around livestock will vary greatly from dog to dog within any breed. Most (not ALL) dobes I've known have had high prey drive, and would not be a great choice for introducing to things like chickens.

    In any event--I agree with the others in worrying about the dogs' safety. You know your neighbors best--are they just dumb punks into pranks who will be deterred by a barking dog, or are they seriously awful people who wouldn't think twice about poisoning/shooting a dog just to continue to harass you? If you're just putting a dog out there that's going to get hurt by these jerks, I think you'd do better to keep some very alert and protective dogs INSIDE the house for your protection and theirs, and to call the cops every time you suspect trespassers. I also like the idea of motion detectors, especially ones that ring the bell in your house when someone comes onto the property. Even if you sleep through the bell, you can bet your dogs won't! I cringe every time somebody accidentally bumps the wall in my house, or if there's a doorbell on TV that sounds similar to ours--the dogs go absolutely nuts (which is a good thing IF it's a real knock or doorbell!). It sounds like you're not a good situation, and I really sympathize with you (I live in a fairly dangerous neighborhood), but you won't feel any better about it if you go out in the morning and find your new dog poisoned to death or worse.

    Good luck.
     
  20. Lawbag

    Lawbag Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for all the input. I do have concerns about possible poisoning - one of the reason our dogs are not left outside in the back dog yard unless one of us is home. None of them go outside the fenced area without a human with them. Luckily my mom is now semi-retired and will go to working only 1 or 2 days a week. We're going to try to arrange it so someone is home 7 days a week. Mainly we want a dog that will bark, mostly look mean to discourage trespassers, and only bite if absolutely necessary, such as if someone actually attacks us outside or comes into our home. I've thought about one of the LGDs but I'm concerned about the possiblity of heat and humidity releated stress as many of them seem to have exceptionally thick coats? Also what about having a LGD and 3 herding dogs on the same property? Might there be a problem with the LGD protecting the goats and sheep, when I get them, from the herding dogs?

    After reading your posts, I went out yesterday and bought some motion triggered flood lights and fence posts for the front yard. I'm looking for someone to install the lights - hopefully we can get them up in the next week or so. This month we'll extend the dog yard from around the back of the house to completely surround the house, then we'll run electric fencing on top and at the bottom of the field fencing that will surround the house. Later this year we'll fence the entire property. We're also having the power company put one of those big lights up on one of power poles. Friday is payday and I'm getting a shotgun and will start practicing every weekend. I'm also signing up for the hunter education program that will qualify me to get a concealed weapon permit. We've started leaving the biggest dog outside more often and all the dogs now have the run of the inside of the house at night instead of shutting the big dogs in my brother's room. I also like the idea of training the dogs we have to watch for the nasty neighbors. I'm gonna try that.