Raw milk vs pasteurized....

Discussion in 'Goats' started by Milking Mom, Oct 6, 2004.

  1. Milking Mom

    Milking Mom COTTON EYED DOES

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    How many of you pasteurize your milk and how many of you drink it raw. This Listerosis thing sounds scarey. Especially if you happened to have a goat that was a carrier and showed no outward signs of the disease. If her milk was contaminated and you contracted this disease would our neck twist to the side and we would walk in circles? :haha: I am making light of it, but in all seriousness, I have drank unpasteurized milk ever since I got these girls in May, 2004 and hadn't been concerned until I started reading about this disease. I think I am going to start pasteurizing. (I don't need anything else affecting my brain :haha: :haha: )
     
  2. mary,tx

    mary,tx Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I've always pasteurized. I have children, and it is such a simple precaution,imo.
    mary
     

  3. WolfSoul

    WolfSoul Well-Known Member

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    Boy have you spoken for me on this! I'm so new to goats that I don't know which end is up.......maybe not that bad, but close. Anyway, I just got a couple of books and started reading about goat diseases, things in milk, things I can catch, ........YIKES!!!! I didn't know I could get CL, for goodness' sakes!!! I feel like tucking my tail and running (sorry for the imagery, I'm a dog trainer.) I have managed to scare myself more with this goat book than any Steven King movie! Instead of seeing my goats as sweet little pets, I'm starting to see them as disease carrying "dirty bombs!" :waa: (Can you tell I came from up North close to Washington where dirty bombs are on our minds???) I am scared to pet my goats now and they feel rejected!!! I may be developing a goat phobia, :eek: :haha: :haha: Ok, I am over dramatizing it a bit, but the disease part of the book does concern me. To all of you successful goatherds, I take my hat off to you!!! :worship: Truthfully, and without drama, the disease section is enough to get me to sell my goats, pronto!
    Karen

     
  4. geminigoats

    geminigoats Well-Known Member

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    Hmmmmm........I usually say that when I am thinking. I too have over the years read of the many diseases, etc that can be transmitted from goats to humans. But there are also many diseases that we can get from other sources as well. When Stephen King was mentioned all I could think of was his novel, "The Stand" which is one of my favorites. I wish I could say something to alleviate your fears, however, all I can say is this:

    If you raise your own goats, have them tested and know what you are feeding them and practice good management then you should be able to make a better informed decision about drinking raw milk. I tend to be from the, "old school" with my thinking about natural foods and products. I believe that mass production has created more problems in agriculture than solved them. I believe that raw milk is beneficial and I say that from my own experience with my recent stomach problems. Since I have began drinking raw goats milk my stomach and digestive problems have improved. I can hear ya'll cringing now, but this is my humble opinion on this. Read both sides and get all the information you can before making your decisions.

    Bernice
     
  5. NewlandNubians

    NewlandNubians Well-Known Member

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    I've been drinking raw goat's milk since 1987 at the age of nine. I have never pasteurized and probably never will. The exception might be for my children when I finally get around to having them.

    I had two does die from listeriosis about two years ago. Contrary to the other post on listeriosis, my goats didn't get it from contaminated feed. I had simply moved them to an area which had cattle on it before my goats and also where lots of cows are kept. There had been cattle die from listeriosis in this area in the past and unfortunately my goats were exposed to it and two of them got it and died. I honestly think I could've saved the second one had I NOT listened to the vet, who prescribed the wrong kind of antibiotic.

    After I had the first doe necropsied, I was scared to death and called the health department. They told me that I had nothing to worry about but I should pasteurize the milk from then on. I was stunned to learn that drinking the milk from that doe probably wouldn't hurt me.

    Other than the listeria, I really don't think there's much to be worried about.

    So cheer up folks, your goats aren't going to kill you unless they get really big & fat and knock you down when you try to feed them or something like that :)
     
  6. Galloping Goats

    Galloping Goats Active Member

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    Here Here for raw milk! I firmly believe that raw milk could solve a lot of health problems that we have today. My daughter spent a year away from home and when she came back she had horrible grass alergies. Drinking raw milk improved them immensly. As long as you practise good management, buy from reputable breeders and test for CAE every year a goat should be fine. I am in complete denial, I am not going to scare myself by reading about the horrible diseases. I prefer to live in blissfull ignorance. :D
     
  7. Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians

    Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians Well-Known Member

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    Even though we have always drank our milk raw, and I sell it, I do cringe when I help folks with health problems in their goats, wondering how far into the disease they have been drinking this milk. As adults we can make all sorts of decisions like this for ourself, but I do think special care should be taken when we are dealing with our children. Always of course those with small infants, immune suppresant disease and the elderly, should not drink raw milk from questionable sources, and a goat you just bought from someone you don't know is a questionable source.

    Some of the answers will come from those who have generations of goats on their place, we have milked, bred and tested these does, do I feel comfortable with letting my grandbabies drink the milk raw, yes. Would I go buy milk from the guy down the road and let them drink it raw, no. Would I go to the auction barn and buy a goat and let them drink the milk raw, no.

    I also don't think when you are new you could pick up listerosis in your goat as quickly as say Bernice could, here and at Bernice's would be treated and off the milkstring before they could contaminate the milk.

    The things we can test our goats for, CL, CAE, TB etc., readily are not the disease we have to worry about in goats, who would milk a doe who had an abscess in her udder and then drink the milk :) TB is very simply not a goat disease, although we have to test for it. CAE is not a concern for humans.

    I haven't read this particular listerosis thread yet, but most listerosis contamination is found in cheese, recalls of cheese are usually because of listerosis.

    Most of the contamination in our raw milk is from us, dirty barns, unclipped goats, dirty milk handling.

    Listerosis is caused by mold, be it in bedding, grain or in the hay. Now off to read that article :) Vicki
     
  8. mysticokra

    mysticokra Well-Known Member

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    I have posted this before, but it bears repeating.

    "Properly handled, raw milk from grass fed, healthy cows and/or goats is actually safer for you than the pasteurized crap from sick confinement cows

    The definitive source for accurate information on raw milk is the Weston A. Price foundation's website at http://www.realmilk.com/what.html

    They can point you to a local chapter for additional help in your area.

    You may also enjoy reading Dr. Ron Schmid's book "The untold story of Milk". See http://www.drrons.com/untoldstoryofmilk.html

    Finding it can be a challenge because the agribusiness interests own the USDA, but you can find friends that can help you at the raw dairy group on Yahoo.

    See http://health.groups.yahoo.com/grou...yguid=160412116

    I can think of few things that have added as much satsifaction and increased health benefits to my life as raw goat's milk. (Well, okay the testosterone was a really good thing... but it's not food.)"

    You are much more likely to encounter Listeria in "processed" foods than in raw milk. In fact, Mark McAfee's at Organic Pastures has actually run tests where they put pathogens in raw milk to see what would happen. The pathogens could not survive in that environment, whereas in pasteurized milk they thrived.
    See the article at "The New Farm" at http://www.newfarm.org/features/0103/california/mcafee/index.shtml
     
  9. geminigoats

    geminigoats Well-Known Member

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    Vicki is right on with her information on the listerious and problems with commercial cheese, etc. I do remember those recalls. And like Vicki, I would not give my grandchildren raw milk unles I knew my goats and their health. In fact my oldest grandson had a digestive problem, hmmm...wonder if this runs in the family......where he wasn't able to drink fromula nor cow milk, spit up constantly. then the dr suggested giving him some raw goats' milk from our goats, we tried it and he improved, kept his milk down and food and gained weight. I sure wish i had known about that when my sons were infants because I sure would have given them goats' milk. Not from the can either! They too spit up a lot.

    As for health, It is always our hope that folks who have dairies will pull the does with problems from the milk string and not ship it anyways. However, we know we don't live in a perfect world. When I noticed any problems at all I would pull them off. Its not only a conscious decision, but prudent in the long run. If you have an infected doe with anything and continue to have it on the string, your SCC or bacteria level increases, and then you run into problems in that regard. You must be meticilous to have a disease free herd and the more numbers you have the more of a challange it poses to accomplish that goal. It costs money to maintain herd health and to test. You have to start with disease free goats and from healthy stock, not auction barn quality.

    In addition to all that, dairies are required to keep insurance so if you have a bad tank of milk and it gets into the truck with the other pickups for that day, you have just contanimated the entire load and bought yourself a headache and the entire load in addition to clean up costs. So you have insurance thats required to protect. In addition, I have liability insurance as well for my fudge. I haven't made much in the past yr or so, but nonetheless, I refuse to be irresponsible and sell a product, either raw goats milk or fudge to someone that is not something I would personally consume or allow my loved ones to. I take this seriously and make sure my herd is healthy and practice prevention. It takes work, believe me. However, what makes it all worth it is to see the improvement in someone's health from being able to have a source for raw goats milk. Its a job that must be taken seriously.

    I figure at this point I am probably "preaching to the choir" here about safeguards, but I just wanted to point out a few aspects of the commercial end of the industry and your sources of milk.

    Bernice

    PS...thanks for the information on thsoe links, I will check them out soon
     
  10. AnnaS

    AnnaS Well-Known Member

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    My answer is- I'm selling my Saf-Gard 2 gal Pastuerizer (works great, all parts, $150 pm me) because the milk gets so "goaty" tasting after pastuerizing.

    My hobby is foodborne disease (No I'm not a geek) :eek: and really everyone whose posted is right- here's the numbers from the CDC. There is nothing to show what kind of milk- goat or cow. Most of these were school field trips to a dairy farm.

    Foodborne Outbreaks 1999-2002
    2002 Total: 226 Involving Raw Milk: 5
    2001 Total: 235 Involving Raw Milk: 3
    2000 Total: 223 " " 8
    1999 Total: 222 " " 2

    NONE of these involved listeria. Listeria outbreak sources 92-02: Deli meat:6 Hot dogs: 2 Pate:1 Pastuerized chocolate milk:1 Queso blanco (a raw milk goat cheese. In this case it was being sold door to door!) 1

    While the CDC always recommends pastuerizing milk, they also point out that raw milk outbreaks will affect farm visitors and not the farm family that regularly drinks the raw milk- almost immunizing themselves against the pathogens with low, regular doses.

    Statistically, eggs and hamburger are still the leading sick-making foods- both contaminated by intensive raising and slaughter procedures that aren't found on homesteads.

    If I had little (people or goat) kids around, I would be pastuerizing. A healthy adult might not even go to the doctor with a food borne illness, but a child can end up needing new kidneys.
     
  11. lisa_cart521

    lisa_cart521 New Member

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    I do not know anything about the risks of raw goats milk, however i am just wondering if anyone knows where i can buy some. I have been searching for months and i have had no luck. I live in CA, in the bay area so if anyone could help that would be great!!
     
  12. Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians

    Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for resurrecting this thread, it is one of my favorite ones.

    Start at realmilk.com than go to yahoogroups.com and put rawmilk in the search, you will find many discussion groups to join and ask at also. Vicki
     
  13. missippigirl

    missippigirl all american farm girl!

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    We always pasteurized the goat's milk for the doe/buck kids we were going to keep for our own use, on the farm, to prevent CAE. But as far as for our own drinking purposes, we never pasteurized it.
     
  14. rich2748

    rich2748 Well-Known Member

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    Raw goats milk has so many health advantages over pasteurized that it isn't even close. Pasteurized milk has nearly 0 nutritional benefits. There are many publications about how raw goats milk has actually healed many seemingly incurable diseases. Urban Homemaker recently had a teleconference on the subject maybe you could contact them.
     
  15. brainfrey

    brainfrey Country girl in the city.

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    From www.realmilk.com, raw milk product suppliers:
    I believe that Organic Pastures sells a raw milk product in Whole Foods that's labeled for "pet use".
     
  16. Paula

    Paula Well-Known Member

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    In our opinion, if you pasturize milk you have just destroyed every reason for drinking it. In fact, not only is it useless nutritionally it can actually be harmful.
     
  17. Shannonmcmom

    Shannonmcmom Well-Known Member

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    Up here in Canada it is "illegal" to sell or consume raw milk, unless you are the owner of the animal. So if we were to give our children raw milk we could be in trouble. We don't have any dairy animals yet but one day soon we will have some.

    I could really go on about how things are going to the toilet with food and everything. I won't because it would be a very long post..... It's funny how nature knows nothing.

    Shannon
     
  18. brainfrey

    brainfrey Country girl in the city.

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    Shannonmcmom, is it illegal to use "cow sharing"? Look at http://www.portlandtribune.com/archview.cgi?id=30666

    Basically, you can get raw milk from a farmer's cow because you literally own 1/8 (or whatever) of the cow, so you get 1/8 of her milk.
     
  19. Shannonmcmom

    Shannonmcmom Well-Known Member

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    We had already decided that if we get a dairy animal we would buy it in all of our names. It was my MIL who told me that it would be illegal for us to give our kids raw milk. So I looked it up and found out that what she had said was true but there are ways around it. It's funny because most of my parents’ generation were raised on milk straight from the cow when they were babies. My grandma told me about how they would milk the cow and give it to the baby when it was still warm. She never lost any of her children.

    Thank you for the information. When we get our dairy animals (not sure if it will be sheep, goats or cows), I will keep that article in mind for anyone who wants some raw milk. I know that fresh cream is a big item within my family. My grandma still gets it. Fresh whipped cream is awesome, same with fresh butter. The possibilities are endless when you have a dairy animal.