Raw Feeders-Talk Me Down!

Discussion in 'Homesteading Questions' started by GoldenMom, May 19, 2005.

  1. GoldenMom

    GoldenMom Well-Known Member

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    I've been feeding raw for about 5 years (started 6 years ago, but I took a "break" for a year a couple of years ago). Lately I've been very frustrated with the amount of time I have to spend preparing the diet and I've been REALLY frustrated with my 9 month old pup. Her stools are consistantly soft. It's not that she has accidents or anything, I just can't stand the cow pies. I have tried figuring out what may be causing the soft stools by eliminating veggies and supplements for a while and treating her for a week with Metronidazole/Flagyl in case of bacterial overgrowth. Still had soft stools on just RMBs! :waa: The ironic thing is I started this type of diet because my older dog had diarrhea every night (the urgent kind) when he was a pup and eating commercial food. As far as the time issue goes, I know there are lots of different "recipes" out there that don't call for supplements, etc. but I can't seem to long-term NOT feed some sort of supplement. That's the part of my diet that takes the most time and costs the most. Supplements I have used/tried: ProZyme (digestive enzymes), kelp/alfalfa, salmon oil, cod liver oil, vitamins B, C, and E, and glucosamine/chondroitin. My basic diet plan: 60% RMB, 20% veggies/fruit (pulverized), 12.5% organ meat, 7.5% "other" (mostly eggs with the shell and yogurt).

    Since this site was pretty much down most of Tues. and some of yesterday I spent a fair amount of time looking up alternative grain-free commercial foods. No matter what diet I feed, I feel pretty strongly about the grain-free part and I don't want to do kibble really. I did feed a fermented grain-free kibble (Balance Diet) when I was on my "break" from raw and it was hard to get and my dog just seemed always hungry on it. Not to mention tartar! I saw that Honest Kitchen makes a couple of grain-free mixes that look interesting. They are "complete" diets on their own, but they encourage you to add fresh, raw meat and/or bones. Does anybody have any experiences with Honest Kitchen or know anybody who does. I like the idea that if I don't have time I don't HAVE to add anything, whereas if I went with the new Sojo Europa I would have to add meat every single meal.

    Please if anybody has any advice (other than "why spend so much time and money on real food, just feed _____") I would really appreciate it.
     
  2. Brandi in VA

    Brandi in VA Well-Known Member

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    What types of RMB are you feeding? Where are you getting them from and how old are they when you do feed them?

    Reason I ask the above questions is my male did the same thing. So I took out vegs and supplements and still nothing. As a last resort I started to feed him chickens and rabbits from here. I knew no chemicals were being added to their diet. About 3 days later his stools where hard and small.

    I'll ask on a couple boards I go to about Honest Kitchen.
     

  3. kemrefarms

    kemrefarms Head Weed Wrangler

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    I am not sure if this will work but cheese and rice are very constipating and I recommend them to my patients who are having loose stool problems. any way to get these into the diet?
     
  4. countrygrrrl

    countrygrrrl PITA

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    I don't do raw, but have done homemade.

    If it were me, I'd up the percentage of veggies and add something like a really good brown rice or lentils. My pups thrived on a near-inverse of the percentages you're feeding --- around 30% meat, the rest vegetables, good rice (and I mean good rice) and beans, usually lentils. Fed that way for years, with good results. My thinking is your pup can't handle that much meat.

    What's the percentage of fat in the diet? Fat can cause loose stools, as well.
     
  5. GoldenMom

    GoldenMom Well-Known Member

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    I feed a mix of RMBs-chicken quarters (usually with excess skin/fat cut off), pork neck bones, turkey necks, beef ribs, mostly anything cheap. I tried doing just one type of RMB for two weeks at a time-no change. I wish I had excess "real" chicken to feed, but right now that's not an option. I am not ruling out that she might not be able to tolerate the "other" stuff in grocery store meat, but I doubt if it is that the meat is too old. I individually bag meal size portions and freeze them when I buy meat. That and my older dog isn't having any problems.

    I am not a proponent of feeding grains (rice, oatmeal, corn, whatever) to MY dogs. Goldens are very prone to cancer and several cancers thrive on high carb diets and do very poorly when the dog is feed a higher fat/protein diet.
     
  6. Elizabeth

    Elizabeth Well-Known Member Supporter

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    This is off the cuff cause I only have a second, I'll write more later, but, you might try adding acidopholus yogurt to the diet and see if that helps. If you are buying grocery store meats you may inadvertently be feeding antibiotic residues to your pup. If this is the case, your older dog may be able to handle it ok, but the pup would be more likely to experience problems.
     
  7. countrygrrrl

    countrygrrrl PITA

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    Aha! I'm a perennial low carber --- actually, all meat and veggies, with occasional grains --- due to strong genetic propensity to diabetes and lifelong hypoglycemia. Spent a couple of years with my blood sugar going crazy before I got the menu down, and was diagnosed prediabetic a year or so ago. But I am here to say I now have *perfect* blood sugar. Through diet alone. Perfect. :)

    So yea. Such a diet is great for starving out the nasty buggers as well. But I fed the dogs rice and a high veggie diet because I was dealing with a hound with troublesome anal glands. That eliminated the problems, and I've simply kept to that ratio ever since.

    Could you up veggies instead? Or ... ?
     
  8. Tracy

    Tracy Well-Known Member

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    Please post exactly what you are feeding say for 1 week. It would certainly help to see an idea of your feeing program.

    I have a few thoughts that come to mind. First off, if you are feeding chicken from Wal Mart I would bet it has an enhnaced soultion [salt, sugar] added to it. You need to read you labels. These enhanced products are crap!!

    If you are feeding a good variety of different proteins you do not need vegtables or suppplemnts. I have raw fed for over 4 years and do not feed any vegtables or supplements. The key is variety.

    Now after saying variety if this was my dog with loose stools this is what I would do. I would fast the dog for 24 hours then give a brand new protein source. Rabbit is recommened but it does not have to be rabbit just something the dog has not ate before. Make sure what you choose has enough meat, you should be aiming for 80% meat 20% consumable bone to start. Dont worry about organ meat at first. Organ meats are vital to the diet but for a couple weeks it will not do harm by not offering them. Organ meats can sometimes cause loose stools. Keep this dog on the one food for minimum of 2 weeks. If you see an improvement then slowly start adding in some organ meats from the same protein source. After this has been introduced add a new protein every week. This will tell you if the dog has an allergy to a certain meat. This is what is refered to as an elimination diet.

    Also see if you can find green tripe. This has many beneficial bacterias and dogs thrive on it. You want fresh unprocessed tripe not bleached tripe from the store.

    If I can help you further feel free to email me. Raw Dog and cat foods is what we supply. Here is my website url. It has raw feeding info on it as well.
    www.hare-today.com

    Good luck,
    Tracy
     
  9. Laura Workman

    Laura Workman (formerly Laura Jensen) Supporter

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    My sister was feeding her puppy cheap, raw chicken quarters, too, for several months, along with veggies, of course. He had loose stools all the time. Finally, she decided it was a salmonella problem and started, er, cooking (gasp!) his meat. Problem solved.
     
  10. countrygrrrl

    countrygrrrl PITA

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    Ergh. Yea. I missed that.

    If you're getting those big bags of chicken quarters, they're *really* nasty. I'd quit that ASAP. That stuff makes me gag.
     
  11. snoozy

    snoozy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I don't think it is healthy to feed even dogs raw meat that has come from the typical industrial meatpackers. Too much salmonella and e-coli. Read Fast Food Nation to get an overview of the modern meat industry.

    Just as a useless aside, a friend of mine said she was looking into doing a raw foods diet herself, which got my warped sense of humour ticking...

    What do you call people who follow a raw foods diet?...
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    Rawstuffarians! :haha:

    What kind of music do they listen to?...
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    .Veggae, of course! :haha:


    And what is the name of their radio show?...
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    "Mostly Muesli"! :haha: :haha:


    (Sorry, I couldn't help myself...) :haha:
     
  12. GoldenMom

    GoldenMom Well-Known Member

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    Thanks everybody, I was just feeling so frustrated and wondered if it was all worth it. I'm still very tempted to try one of the pre-mixes just for the timesavings (OK so I'm going to stop tomorrow and get some). I will look into get some better quality chicken and other meats.

    The total diet is about 60% RMB, 20% veggies, 12.5% organ meats, and the rest yogurt and eggs. Out of this total: I feed about 60% chicken, 10% fish (usually fish I caught), and the rest pork and beef (occassionally venison, rabbit, and duck). I feed a wide variety of veggies-green leafies, carrots, broccoli, cucumbers, sweet potatoes and lots of others (usually 10-15 different veggies in each 4 week batch). I feed 25% chicken livers, 25% beef livers, 25% pork or beef kidneys, and 25% pork or beef heart (sometimes chicken). The yogurt is live culture and the eggs are my own free range eggs (I bake, crush, and feed the shells, too).

    I did try only one type of meat for two straight weeks each with no change.

    Thanks again-I'll keep you posted as to her progress.