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Kinda like facebook?
Actually, yes: Facebook is especially bad about buying up new technology, both competing and non-competing. Google, Microsoft, Amazon, and Apple do it, too.

It's easy to see in the entertainment and gaming industry, too, with new studios frequently getting bought and consolidated, especially if introducing a franchise or marketing method that makes the existing market distasteful to consumers. (Example: Deviating from microtransactions.)

And retail. Walmart has been well known for underpricing local stores to the point they go out of business and then pumping pricing.
 

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Actually, yes: Facebook is especially bad about buying up new technology, both competing and non-competing. Google, Microsoft, Amazon, and Apple do it, too.

It's easy to see in the entertainment and gaming industry, too, with new studios frequently getting bought and consolidated, especially if introducing a franchise or marketing method that makes the existing market distasteful to consumers. (Example: Deviating from microtransactions.)

And retail. Walmart has been well known for underpricing local stores to the point they go out of business and then pumping pricing.
My point was these monopoly's destroying other business's. A large part of the time the acquisitions come through threats to put them out of business, so in reality forcing them to sell for a lot less than market value.
 

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And their profit margins can be 2% or less.
Speaking from experience, overhead and labor costs put onto paper with no negative variables doesn't mean they don't exist, it just means you will see them later.
Fair point, but I wasn't suggesting that the owner take the wage increase out of net profit. I was simply illustrating that the impact of a rise in minimum wage on prices is much smaller than people were making out. Depending on the business, COGS, occupancy costs, amortization on capital investment, etc. can all be significant price drivers as well.

At the end of the day, we should be prepared to pay a price that is proportionate to the cost of the product, including a living wage for those who make, move or sell it.
 

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Food is basically free, until labor gets involved. It grows by sunlight and water from seed. The labor to plant, cultivate, harvest, sort and get to the restaurant (mostly low skilled low wage labor) is what drives up the cost to the restaurant owner. The same with nearly all manufactured goods. Yes, steel is expensive... but that’s mainly due to labor costs of mining the ore and processing into steel. The ore is free for the taking.
Now you are arguing Marx's theory of surplus value of labour. Which is fine, but it's kind of an ivory tower approach to the problem under discussion.

In the real world, people have to pay cash money for mineral rights to dig ore, for stumpage fees to cut timber, for land if they want to plow it, and seeds if they want to plant them. Now if you are arguing for the abolition of property rights, particularly the ownership of the means of production, then count me in brother. We have nothing to lose but our chains. In the meantime, businesses have costs other than just labour, and specifically minimum-wage labour.
 

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Because literally nobody is suggesting $1000/hour except people who aren't willing to have an honest conversation.

The rate of $15 is a general target that's been based on what wages should be if they had been kept up with inflation.

To be honest, yes, our minimum wage needs to be raised, and then it needs to be tied to inflation so that employees don't need to beg for cost-of-living adjustments from unscrupulous employers who literally get away with paying people less each year, or try to convince their workers that a standard COL is a "merit raise" that must be earned. A secondary bonus to this would be eliminating this dumb, distracting argument for years to come.



Because inflation. That's how this works. When COL rises, your employer should be giving you a COL adjustment. When you don't get a COL adjustment, you are literally working for less than you originally agreed each passing year. This holds true regardless of whether you are paid minimum wage or not. The reason we have this argument over and over every few years is because each time we raise the minimum wage, we neglect to tie it to inflation.




The answer to "why" is that it is standard practice in many areas or across many industries; the fact is, you are a resource and nothing more. Businesses do not want to spend money on you, because they want you (the resource) for free if they can get it. When all of the power rests with employers, they can just about set whatever wage they wish and potential workers have to accept that. It has nothing to do with education, skill, or ability.

And before you suggest "you should have gotten a better job", remember that this phenomenon is spreading. For example, software engineers have been able to name their price for a while now -- but as more and more companies have figured out they can assembly-line software development or outsource it to the other side of the planet, an engineer's bargaining power is getting pulled down closer to the level of a McDonald's employee's bargaining power with each passing year.

And there is no such thing as "working your way up" anymore. Do you even know how major employers function? Management is frequently pulled straight out of college or from outside, they are not pulled from the working ranks within. Middle-management and below are frequently paid similar (if not the same) rates as the entry-level workers they are supervising. This is exactly why young people now "job hop", because it's literally the only reliable way to boost salary.
so, what is missing here I guess is that you don’t understand what causes inflation.

if you only had that one critical piece of info.

hummmm, now what would cause the cost of goods and services to rise? Just can’t seem to put my finger on it.

too funny,



get an education, it doesn’t have to be a college degree. Get a job and experience. Get a better job. Life is good.

or, wreck the economy for everyone, and wonder why your economy has to be ‘fixed’ every few years.
 

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Rambler, I pondered trying to explain inflation, but gave it up as unlikely to be successful. You are, of course, spot on. Again.
 

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One thing I have noticed is that while minimum wage goes up a bit, the higher paying skilled labor jobs seem to be stuck at the same pay scale as they were 5 to 10 years ago.
The job offers in my field are APPALLING. People want degrees (sometimes masters degrees!!!) and multiple years of experience with absurdly broad range of skills and they want to pay TWELVE DOLLARS AN HOUR.

Y'all can take that and shove it. I'd sit on the dole before I'd work for someone that had so little respect for their employees, even though I love the work that I do and enjoy working. Hell, I'll volunteer my services to a non-profit before I work for that, lol.

Bottom line is:

A) The salary gap between upper management and the workers that actually make the profit happen at large multinational corporations is widening at a breakneck speed.
B) This unchecked profit explosion allows these multinational corporations to expand in a way that is putting small businesses, the ones that actually give a damn about their employees, out of business at an equally mind-blowing rate.
C) We're all freaking underpaid and fighting the campaign for fair wages ultimately only helps the giant multinational corporations and HURTS both workers and small business owners.

Quit fighting against your own best interest, folks.
 

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Actually, yes: Facebook is especially bad about buying up new technology, both competing and non-competing. Google, Microsoft, Amazon, and Apple do it, too.

It's easy to see in the entertainment and gaming industry, too, with new studios frequently getting bought and consolidated, especially if introducing a franchise or marketing method that makes the existing market distasteful to consumers. (Example: Deviating from microtransactions.)

And retail. Walmart has been well known for underpricing local stores to the point they go out of business and then pumping pricing.
something we can sort of agree on, so I better point this out.

I believe the govt should be less involved in business itself, and more involved in regulating closer to a level playing field.

You want an ever increasing minimum wage, I don’t see the point of that.

I would like to see the govt return to regulations that keep businesses innovating to win more business, not buying out all their competition and be the only poor to mediocre game in town. We used to have a much better system of these types of regulations that allowed business to work, but not monopolize. So it can be done.

the whole minimum wage thing is just a red herring, it is meaningless. Up the minimum wage and those making more than min need their wages upped and then the cost of everything goes up and inflation eats up any increase anyone had and everyone is right backwhere they started. It is pointless.

an attempt at making a fair playing field with minimalistic but strong regulations to encourage business competition, and discourage takeover, would be very beneficial to the country.

I’m not against govt, I’m just against stupid govt.

paul
 

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The job offers in my field are APPALLING. People want degrees (sometimes masters degrees!!!) and multiple years of experience with absurdly broad range of skills and they want to pay TWELVE DOLLARS AN HOUR.

Y'all can take that and shove it. I'd sit on the dole before I'd work for someone that had so little respect for their employees, even though I love the work that I do and enjoy working. Hell, I'll volunteer my services to a non-profit before I work for that, lol.

Bottom line is:

A) The salary gap between upper management and the workers that actually make the profit happen at large multinational corporations is widening at a breakneck speed.
B) This unchecked profit explosion allows these multinational corporations to expand in a way that is putting small businesses, the ones that actually give a damn about their employees, out of business at an equally mind-blowing rate.
C) We're all freaking underpaid and fighting the campaign for fair wages ultimately only helps the giant multinational corporations and HURTS both workers and small business owners.

Quit fighting against your own best interest, folks.
Iagree with your words, but I think I’m disagreeing with your point?

much of what you say makes sense.

the enemy of a small business is high labor costs, or that pesky minimum wage law.

thr big corporations and businesses get their labor cheap by putting the call center in India, buy raw product in China, have their internet/media/ graphics all done in Indochina. Part time labor is done with visa workers from aftrica, South America. They only do a few jobs in the USA. If min wage prices go up, more work gets flexed to Mexico, China, or automated and gone for good.

the small business can’t compete with that, can’t use those same cheaper resources they don’t have the scale to get on board. Throw in increased labor prices with ratcheting up min wages, and you just threw the entire mom and pop small business folk under the bus. You are helping create the bigger gap with min wage laws.

paul
 

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The job offers in my field are APPALLING. People want degrees (sometimes masters degrees!!!) and multiple years of experience with absurdly broad range of skills and they want to pay TWELVE DOLLARS AN HOUR.

Y'all can take that and shove it. I'd sit on the dole before I'd work for someone that had so little respect for their employees, even though I love the work that I do and enjoy working. Hell, I'll volunteer my services to a non-profit before I work for that, lol.

Bottom line is:

A) The salary gap between upper management and the workers that actually make the profit happen at large multinational corporations is widening at a breakneck speed.
B) This unchecked profit explosion allows these multinational corporations to expand in a way that is putting small businesses, the ones that actually give a damn about their employees, out of business at an equally mind-blowing rate.
C) We're all freaking underpaid and fighting the campaign for fair wages ultimately only helps the giant multinational corporations and HURTS both workers and small business owners.

Quit fighting against your own best interest, folks.
Just tell us what fields and skills you are adapted with?
 

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Iagree with your words, but I think I’m disagreeing with your point?

much of what you say makes sense.

the enemy of a small business is high labor costs, or that pesky minimum wage law.

thr big corporations and businesses get their labor cheap by putting the call center in India, buy raw product in China, have their internet/media/ graphics all done in Indochina. Part time labor is done with visa workers from aftrica, South America. They only do a few jobs in the USA. If min wage prices go up, more work gets flexed to Mexico, China, or automated and gone for good.

the small business can’t compete with that, can’t use those same cheaper resources they don’t have the scale to get on board. Throw in increased labor prices with ratcheting up min wages, and you just threw the entire mom and pop small business folk under the bus. You are helping create the bigger gap with min wage laws.

paul
Paul, I think where the problem lies is that paying fair wages is unrealistic for small businesses because they're having to compete with the prices set by the WalMarts of the world (there's a WalMart in every sector—I'm just talking about the megacorp-types.). These corporations have artificially lowered prices by utilizing SLAVE LABOR (literally slave labor in many cases) and exploiting lax environmental protections etc elsewhere in the world where labor laws and things like protecting drinking water from contamination aren't a thing.

If we didn't have to compete with this exploitative global competition, fair wages would be easy because it would put you on a more even playing field. Would stuff cost more for all of us if we all bought American-made and produced, etc? Yep. But we'd all be getting paid more, so—again—it evens out.

As it stands, people are being forced to pay low wages and eke out tiny profit margins because multinational corporations are setting the price bar based on the advantages they have from being in a global market and exploiting folks everywhere they can.

The rampant exploitation of a globalized economy is the enemy—not fair wages.
 

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Just tell us what fields and skills you are adapted with?
I have fifteen years of experience in copywriting, marketing and journalism. Journalism, of course, is a classically underpaid profession which is why I moved into marketing and copywriting. I got tired of competing with the poor desperate kids fresh out of college that were willing to work for $12 an hour, or foreigners who speak/write English as a second language. (People hire them through sites like UpWork for $5 an article. This is the dumbing down of the written word in common use in America.) Anyway, it's BS so I quit the industry/ies and started bartending at dive bars in Alaska because both the hours and pay were better. Now I raise chickens, rabbits, and heirloom herbs and tomatoes. The pay sucks, the hours suck, but at least I'm not working for the man. :D
 

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I have fifteen years of experience in copywriting, marketing and journalism. Journalism, of course, is a classically underpaid profession which is why I moved into marketing and copywriting. I got tired of competing with the poor desperate kids fresh out of college that were willing to work for $12 an hour, or foreigners who speak/write English as a second language. (People hire them through sites like UpWork for $5 an article. This is the dumbing down of the written word in common use in America.) Anyway, it's BS so I quit the industry/ies and started bartending at dive bars in Alaska because both the hours and pay were better. Now I raise chickens, rabbits, and heirloom herbs and tomatoes. The pay sucks, the hours suck, but at least I'm not working for the man. :D
Ok. Poor desperate kids have to work too. You would rather stay on the dole is where we split paths. They are fresh out of college just as you were. That inlies the problems most don't have backup fields.
 

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Ok. Poor desperate kids have to work too. You would rather stay on the dole is where we split paths. They are fresh out of college just as you were. That inlies the problems most don't have backup fields.
I thought those were the ones that were supposed to be working at Taco Bell for minimum wage?! LOL

I'm sorry. I have too much self-respect to work for a-holes that don't appreciate me and are satisfied with sub-par results because it's cheaper. Sue me. Enjoy trying to get blood from a turnip. :ROFLMAO:

"Backup fields" is something older generations didn't have to have because employers used to value them and take care of them and work hard to keep them happy for their entire careers. Good luck finding that these days! Wait... didn't someone point that out earlier.

Now we exist in a labor economy where one full-time skilled job doesn't pay the bills. If you don't have a side-hustle (hello, proliferation of MLMs and other predatory sales industries,) or a second job the traditional American Dream is no longer within reach for the average American. Au contrair, many don't even have the luxury of even one stable full-time job to supplement, but rather find themselves cobbling together multiple part-time job schedules or trying to subsist in the no-mans-land of gig economy.

Unemployment may be down, but the job market is THE PITS. Everyone's like "Hey, minimum wage jobs aren't intended for you to raise a family and pay grown-up bills on!" but heck... that's MOST of what's out there!

Realistically, though, even $15 an hour isn't enough for an adult that is a sole-provider for dependents to get by on in most areas. It's NOT EVEN a "living wage" and still everyone is whining about the notion of having to pay it.

Look, I get it. Your profit margins suck, too. Let's do something about that.

I haven't read all of this thread. Just feeling ranty and this seemed like a good place for it. Sorry if it's redundant.
 

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I thought those were the ones that were supposed to be working at Taco Bell for minimum wage?! LOL

I'm sorry. I have too much self-respect to work for a-holes that don't appreciate me and are satisfied with sub-par results because it's cheaper. Sue me. Enjoy trying to get blood from a turnip. :ROFLMAO:

"Backup fields" is something older generations didn't have to have because employers used to value them and take care of them and work hard to keep them happy for their entire careers. Good luck finding that these days! Wait... didn't someone point that out earlier.

Now we exist in a labor economy where one full-time skilled job doesn't pay the bills. If you don't have a side-hustle (hello, proliferation of MLMs and other predatory sales industries,) or a second job the traditional American Dream is no longer within reach for the average American. Au contrair, many don't even have the luxury of even one stable full-time job to supplement, but rather find themselves cobbling together multiple part-time job schedules or trying to subsist in the no-mans-land of gig economy.

Unemployment may be down, but the job market is THE PITS. Everyone's like "Hey, minimum wage jobs aren't intended for you to raise a family and pay grown-up bills on!" but heck... that's MOST of what's out there!

Realistically, though, even $15 an hour isn't enough for an adult that is a sole-provider for dependents to get by on in most areas. It's NOT EVEN a "living wage" and still everyone is whining about the notion of having to pay it.

Look, I get it. Your profit margins suck, too. Let's do something about that.

I haven't read all of this thread. Just feeling ranty and this seemed like a good place for it. Sorry if it's redundant.
How old are you? My profit margins don't suck! Look at my signature line... I have given you some slack on your short time here. I'm still willing to discuss this. But if you can make it on the dole stick to it...
 

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There are multiple discussions going on here and it typical of why an issue like this rabbit trails to eternity.
One person complains about a minimum wage to low to survive, can't respond to examples of people who do and changes their argument.
Amazon isn't Katy's Breads & Butters. San Diego isn't Soggy Bottom.
Everyone is hiring but I'm worth more than they pay.
Lots of reasons for paying a higher wage but most are from folks who never ran a successful small business.
 
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