Questions on bottle calf

Discussion in 'Cattle' started by debd0712, Jun 22, 2006.

  1. debd0712

    debd0712 Well-Known Member

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    We have a new 3 to 3-1/2 week old Jersey steer calf that we brought home yesterday. We are feeding him 1 quart of goats milk twice a day, free choice grass hay and grass, free choice loose cattle minerals and about a cup of grain and alfalfa pellets twice a day. We started adding ammonium chloride to his grain today.

    I was told by his breeder to give him 2 cc of LA200 as a preventative measure due to the stress of moving. Last night I realized I have no idea how to give this to a calf - is it SQ or IM, and if IM where is the best place to give it? Also, does he need to be wormed or anything else at this point? We have cattle vaccines, but normally give those just prior to weaning. Any other suggestions?

    Thanks,

    Debbie
     
  2. mpillow

    mpillow Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If he isnt having diarhea dont change a thing or give any meds.... :shrug:

    My calf is about the same age a holstien and he did scour and wouldnt suck so I gave him electrolytes (Deliver product) and probiotics and baking soda in a paste....he is now eating a little calf manna, hay, grass and about a gallon of goat milk a day (3 bottles aday 1.5q milk rest water)

    There's a salt lick out there but I use horse feed minerals added to goat feed at night....

    I didnt worm, vaccinate or cut our last calf that was butchered at 6m...
    but I would've wormed him if he'd stayed any longer....
     

  3. john in la

    john in la Well-Known Member

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    First off my concern would be what you are feeding him. Even though he is about 60 lbs he is still a baby and you just brought him home yesterday.

    You need to mimic what the breeder was doing.
    You do not want to do anything that changes his routine and give him a tummy ache. I do not think that the breeder was giving him minerals and salt already. Once he gets settled in you can slowly change is ration.

    The LA200 (LIQUAMYCIN) can be given IM or SQ. I like to use subcutaneous right along the front shoulder. The dose is up to 9 mg/lb Undiluted for a one time shot. That is 1.1 ml per 25 lbs.
     
  4. Up North

    Up North KS dairy farmers

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    1 qt. twice a day is probably not enough liquids for 3 1/2 week old calf. Now your goat's milk is richer than cow's milk, so don't throw more of that at him till he gets used to it. I would keep up Goat's milk amount and provide free choice fresh water. ( Or dilute Goat's milk with water and feed calf 3- 4 quarts day of mixture.) The grain pellets are good!
    John has given correct info on La-200 dosage and application. However, I don't really believe in giving antibiotics unless an animal is sick and NEEDS them. If you use them as prevention, pretty soon your animals will all have grown new bugs resistant to antibiotics you are using, rendering them totally ineffective when it is life or death and an animal really needs them.
    Just our TAKE on antibiotic usage. You decide what is right for you&yours!!!!
    Most calf rearing experts will advise milk & grain pellets will best develop calf's Rumen up to 60 days. After that hay is to be introduced.
     
  5. debd0712

    debd0712 Well-Known Member

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    We are feeding him fresh goat milk - at the breeders he was with his mother. Other than the free choice loose cattle minerals (which he has not seemed to touch) and the addition of ammonium chlroride to his grain he is getting the same feed as he did at his prior home. He does not have scours and so far seems healthy and happy, but we obviously will continue to watch for any problems. I can remove the minerals for now if that would be best.

    Does he need anything for coccidia prevention? Should we give him the LA200 or not? If he doesn't need it I would prefer not to give it. Also, he is not disbudded and has little horn buds. I have a Rhinehart 50 dehorner which we use on our goats. If I remove the goat tip it is supposed to be suitable for calves. Is the process the same as with a goat? I would like to disbud him, but will wait as long as I can to give him time to settle in. Will he need tetanus antitoxin or something prior to disbudding?

    Thanks for the answers!

    Debbie
     
  6. john in la

    john in la Well-Known Member

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    You brought this calf home from a closed herd; Right.

    I would not give him anything. Now if you got him at a auction I would give him the LA200 before I got him home. The stress levels are less coming from a closed herd.

    You can leave the minerals since they are free choice and he will not touch it if he does not want it but I would not add anything to his feed unless you are mixing your own. I feed many calves and I find it better to buy a pre mixed calf starter for the first few feedings rather than feeding my mixed grain.

    Coccidia usually appears pens that are continually used for calves and which are not disinfected effectively. This would not be a concern of yours. Good clean stall should be all you need for dieses prevention.

    Your dehorner is the electric hot iron type correct? Let the calf settle in for a week or so. Lay him down and burn a circle around the horn bud. Must be done before the bud breaks the skin. (OK here goes; I will get the rant for this.) I do not use any type of shot before or after. If done correctly it only hurts for a split second. You will see a copper ring if you did it right. Most likely just like a goat but I have never done a goat.
     
  7. Up North

    Up North KS dairy farmers

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    John NO RANT from this neck o' the woods, LOL. We dehorn, eartag, castrate with no xtra shots whatsoever. The trick is to be quick, effective, then release and it's done. This requires preparation and having all tools ready, and we use a good calf halter to totally restrain them.
    John if you will humor me I will add that after you burn the "copper" colored ring around base of horn button, you take the heel of your hand, and KNOCK HORN BUTTON OFF with a quick thrust. This will prevent future growth of half horn or stub horn.

    Again, I would not give LA-200 unless animal is sick. Sometimes you give a calf that and it kills all the good bacteria in it's stomach so then it can't digest food, and you just created a whole 'nother problem for yourself.

    Ammonium Chloride??? Don't understand what this does for a bovine???
     
  8. YuccaFlatsRanch

    YuccaFlatsRanch Well-Known Member Supporter

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    "Ammonium Chloride??? Don't understand what this does for a bovine???"

    Helps prevent Urinary calculi, especially if you live in an area with hard water..
     
  9. Up North

    Up North KS dairy farmers

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    Thanks for info Yucca. We have never had a Vet or feed consultant ever bring this up. We are North of the Laurentian Divide, and noone in our area uses water softeners. So now I will further reveal my ignorance on matter, what are symptoms and outcome of Urinary Calculi???
     
  10. mpillow

    mpillow Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by YuccaFlatsRanch
    "Ammonium Chloride??? Don't understand what this does for a bovine???"

    Helps prevent Urinary calculi, especially if you live in an area with hard water..

    Thanks for info Yucca. We have never had a Vet or feed consultant ever bring this up. We are North of the Laurentian Divide, and noone in our area uses water softeners. So now I will further reveal my ignorance on matter, what are symptoms and outcome of Urinary Calculi???


    Its used for buck goats for UC but I've not had any trouble and our water is VERY hard....scale on all fixtures....but I do collect rainwater as much as possible...I've never heard of using it on cattle either :shrug:
     
  11. YuccaFlatsRanch

    YuccaFlatsRanch Well-Known Member Supporter

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    "what are symptoms and outcome of Urinary Calculi??"

    The symptoms are an inability to pass urine in a male animal due to formation of crystals or stones in the urinary passage. The animal will strain to pee with minimal or no results. Inability to pass urine will cause the bladder to rupture (hencethe name water belly in sheep/goats) with quick death. The animals will many times paw at his stomach with a hind foot.

    Easily and cheaply prevented by the addition of ammonium chloride at the rate of 1/2 ounce per day to grain for steers and 1/5 ounce (approx 1 tsp) to feed for sheep and goats. Within reason you can't overdose them on it as it is a salt they are safe to eat. It works by acidifying the urine and dissolving the stones/crystals. Costs me 70 cents per pound at my local feed mill. Its frequently already in grain feed mixes.

    Its in my special grain mix, but I had been cutting way down on my grain feeding for the summer and didn't think the whole process through and almost lost my best young breeding ram because of it.
     
  12. Up North

    Up North KS dairy farmers

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    Thanks for all the good info. Learned something new here. I suppose most feed mills are knowledgeable and include it in areas where it is needed.
    Hope your Ram is doing fine. The little details can sure make or break an AG operation.
     
  13. Tango

    Tango Well-Known Member

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    Amonium Chloride for bucks or wethers is only needed when grain is a part of their ration. Wethers need it more than bucks due to their smaller urinary tract. First timeI've heard its use in realtion to steers and I sure appreciate the heads up. Hay or pastured male goats don't need Ammonium Chloride. I don't use it and my wethers and buck eat grain in the morning but not more than about 1 cup worth. Not all feeds contain it though so check the label anyone who feeds grain.

    I had a buck develop UC when I lived in Florida. It was during the bad hurricane season of 04 and I was feeding only grain and alfalfa due to the tremendous stress emotional andphysical we were all under. Three hurricanes in about 7 weeks. I simply forgot all about proper feeding. The goats pen was under water half the time. Only time I've UC.
     
  14. debd0712

    debd0712 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks to all for your replies.

    Yes, the calf is from a closed herd. I did give him Bio-Mycin (same as LA-200 with anti-sting carrier) because he had a snotty nose this morning. It was creamy colored, not clear or green. I too do not like to give antibiotics unless there is a reason for it.

    The calf does have free choice water and he does drink 1 to 2 gallons per day. We increased his milk (goat) by about half though as he seemed to need more liquids. Would it have been better to dilute with water? (In a goat that young it would prevent the milk from curdling in the rumen and give it scours.) He does munch on hay and grass and nibbles at the grain.

    I do have another question regarding the dehorning, and yes mine is electric. I will have to double check tomorrow to see if the horn buds are through the skin yet. What do I do if they are? They felt very tiny and I don't think they are through yet, but it is possible. Your description of disbudding sounds very close to a goat, only a goat would get tetanus antitoxin prior to the procedure. I think cattle are a bit tougher than a goat and tolerate most procedures better from what I can see.

    Thanks again for all of the help. I want to do my best for this calf.

    Debbie
     
  15. Up North

    Up North KS dairy farmers

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    For burning horn buttons, makes no difference below skin or thru skin. Personally prefer to do it after thru skin, as you can see exact location of circle around base of horn bud to be burned. I would give 4-7 days to settle in B4 dehorning. Having just moved him, dehorning imeediately as well would just put him under 2 stresses at once. Little gained by doing that.
     
  16. debd0712

    debd0712 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you. I had planned to let him settle in here before disbudding due to the additional stress factor as mentioned. As long as he is doing well I will schedule for next week. It is one of my least favorite jobs, but would rather do it than have horns.

    How long do I continue the Bio-Mycin (for the snotty nose)?

    Debbie
     
  17. Up North

    Up North KS dairy farmers

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    Watch for 2 days. If condition has not cleared, would treat him again. DO NOT sell him into commercial calf market after using LA-200
    Product until you are well beyond reccommended withholding time period, especially so if you do a follow up dose.
     
  18. mpillow

    mpillow Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I put in 1.5 Q of goat milk and to the top with water.... :shrug: Probiotic paste if you've given the antibiotics....to help keep rumen healthy.

    Mine is loose w/ goats I havent seen him drinking but we are using more water and he pees alot when he goes so...He does like grass pasture during the day and hay at night...after his bottle of course. He is over 100 pounds but nearly that at birth...