Questions for vegetarian~on Moral

Discussion in 'Homesteading Questions' started by daileyjoy, Sep 7, 2004.

  1. daileyjoy

    daileyjoy Well-Known Member

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    I have a question, I have been thinking that the way my families eating habits were going it would not be long before we were vegetarian before too long, not as much for moral reasons but for health reasons. I just discovered something and hope someone can answer this. If you have chosen to be vegetarian for moral reasons such as not killing animals or God intended us to be this way than why the lack of B-12 in vegetables? If we are not suspose to eat meat than why is the lack of it so severe. I dont want a huge debate but it was something that occured to me and I don't know anybody else to ask.

    Jennifer
     
  2. HermitJohn

    HermitJohn Well-Known Member

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    Actually if you grow your own vegetables and dont feel the need to boil them in bleach to kill anything and everything on them, the bacteria in the soil that sticks to them provides some B12.

    Most of human history we couldnt be too picky about what we ate. If it had calories and didnt make us ill to eat it, then we ate it. Humans are fairly adaptable. People that eat at fast food places prove all the time that we can survive on the lowest quality foods imaginable.
     

  3. daileyjoy

    daileyjoy Well-Known Member

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  4. ratherbefishin

    ratherbefishin Well-Known Member

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    I don't eat as much red meat as I used to , but that's mainly because I'm trying to eat less-not grossly overweight , but if I even moderately overeat, I don;t feel good]
    The whole question about the ''morality'' of ''exploiting ''annimals comes down to size-because is it less''moral'' to eat a larger annimal than a smaller one?We injest[ eat] zilions of ''annimals''every time we drink a glass of water[ ever check out a drop of water under a microscope?]Orwhat about the poor little ''annimals'' on an apple or piece of fruit that we eat?So maybe if we can't ''see'' the annimal it's not ''immoral'' to eat it?Then if that arguement holds up- therefore it's ok to eat a steak as long as you keep your eyes shut so as notr to see it...So, you see, the whole arguement about the ''morality'' of eating annimals breaks down.The fact is, we are all part of the food chain, like it or not and it's impossable to opt out.Questions about ''morality'' have no logical basis to them.
     
  5. diane greene

    diane greene Well-Known Member

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    My decision to abstain from most meat is not a religous one, but rather a moral one. For me it has to do with my objection to factory farming. I do not object to the humane raising of one's live food or to hunting.

    Maybe I am missing something here, but the killing and eating of animals is quite common in the Bible. The Bible goes into great descriptiong concerning animal sacrifice and even Jesus apparently approves of eating fish. Are you refering to Buddhist or Hindu text? It is very clear in some Buddist and Hindu scripture that it is spiritually unacceptable to eat or even harm animals.

    As for B12, it is possible to be a healthy vegetarian (I'm not so sure about vegan) simply by eating the right combination and variety of foods.
     
  6. cloverfarm

    cloverfarm Well-Known Member

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    As I understand it, the Bible listed a progression of eating plans. Before the Fall, (when sin entered in) when everything was perfect, humans and animals were all vegetarian. Then after the fall, humans were allowed to hunt adn raise livestock for food. After teh Noah's flood, all living creatures were allowable for food, as long as the blood was removed. After the Hebrews came out of Egypt adn God gave Moses teh Law, they divided the animals into clean and unclean. (Some people think the unclean animals were ones that would compete directly with humans for food -- such as dogs and pigs -- while the clean animals could make use of foods humans couldn't use, such as vegetation. After Jesus died and rose again and non-Jews started to join the churches, foods again became an issue ... and the apostle Peter had a vision where all foods were permissible.

    And so we come to the present day at our house -- Easter ham! :haha:

    Because of this, Christians have varying beliefs about what foods are best. But Jesus pointed out, it's not what goes into the body that defiles it, it's what comes out of the heart and out of the mouth.

    OK ... end of sermon. :)

    We used to go to a church where some were "fruitarians" and some only ate "clean" animals ... even in one church there was a lot of variation. But as one of hte elders pointed out, food is not the main issue.

    HOpe that helped. I guess we need B vitamins because we don't live in a perfect world.

    Ann
     
  7. daileyjoy

    daileyjoy Well-Known Member

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    There used to be a huge billboard here that said Jesus was a vegetarian, and had a few bible verses with it. It is gone now but something made me think of it yesterday.

    Jennifer
     
  8. Rivka

    Rivka Well-Known Member

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    B12 is found in dairy products as well. There are vegetarian cheeses (not hard to find- many dairies use vegie renet now). Milk can be taken from the animal in ethical, humane ways.
     
  9. cloverfarm

    cloverfarm Well-Known Member

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    Hmm ... he seemed mighty fond of fish, though. And was accused of being a glutton and drunkard ... so ... I don't know. I don't think vegetarianism was part of the main stream Jewish culture at the time. I think one might make a case for John the Baptist being a vegetarian since people pointed out that he ate "locusts adn wild honey." We have been told locusts meant locust tree pods not bugs, but, I don't know about that, either.

    Myself, I don't mind eating meat that we raised.

    I have noticed -- not here so much because I'm not around much j-- but in other settings I've seen the topic of foods become very, very divisive.
     
  10. Tango

    Tango Well-Known Member

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    I was a vegetarian for moral reasons until we moved to our micro farm. I now raise my own animals and do the butchering myself as well. I've no doubt I will be a vegetarian again because I am partially Buddhist. No matter what I tell myself or read or hear, I am not totally comfortable with the killing of animals for food. I do it now because my family is not vegetarian, never has been, and doesn't want to be and I was burnt out on the complications of two menus every night ( I started to rely on the smae stuff for me over and over again or I'd just eat junk food). Being vegetarian is about food combining. One can get all the nutritional requirements for a healthy life from grains, legumes, plants, dairy, and eggs.
     
  11. jerneeon

    jerneeon Well-Known Member

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    I don't eat a whole lot of meat, have been vegetarian and vegan at different times.Don't usually use dairy products. Mostly for health reasons. I know eat a little meat just because I lift weights, and I want to ensure that I am getting lots of protein.

    I use a lot of nutritional yeast. You can put it on pasta, popcorn or in lots of other ways. I satisfy my B12 requirement with that, and have been tested for what was in my system. It is more than satisfactory in that area.
     
  12. BamaSuzy

    BamaSuzy Well-Known Member

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    I have been vegetarian for about five years now....I started raising my own animals and vegetables because of my severe allergies and all the food additives sure don't help....then to see how the poor chickens, cows, pigs, and other animals are so badly abused in the huge lots and huge houses has to be a sin...

    But soon after I started raising my own animals, I realized that each and every animals, even my laying hens, which were supposed to be dumber than bricks, all had different personalities....

    That did it....

    I do believe that God started everything out for us not to eat animals, as evidenced in the Garden of Eden. Only when sin entered did we start eating our friends....

    I am not pushy about this but it is just my personal beliefs...
     
  13. Marcee

    Marcee Active Member

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    Jennifer:

    I do not believe vegetarianism is a healthy state for most people. I was one for years and years, was considered healthy, ate well, and got lots of nutrition, but it seriously hurt my health in the long run.

    the B12 question is an excellent one. it is more than that, though. what about the tryptophans your body needs for mental health as well? it is very hard to keep it up on a vegetarian diet. if you happen to be someone whose brain is more sensitive to these subtleties, then you need to extra cautious or you might develop depression, etc.

    when you are making this decision, then you should also consider reading some opposite info on diet than the standard, mainstream info. read Sally Fallon's NOURISHING TRADITIONS. it is an excellent nutritional treatise as well as cookbook. also, check out THE MOOD CURE by Julia Ross to investigate the effect all the vitamins and amino acids have on the brain. be very careful and be very smart. also, consider (and loosely) EAT FOR YOUR BLOOD TYPE. this book takes into consideration how each of us has a unique make up, and food needs, due to our ethnicity. did you know that 30% of those with a celtic background have problems with wheat / gluten? while a vegetarian diet is lovely, and peaceful, and you definitely are thinner, it may not be the healthiest for all people.

    i was a vegetarian years ago for spiritual reasons. my health couldn't tolerate it more than 13 years. that was me, and my body type. NOT how I ate, as some people love to suggest. it is sort of like a diabetic eating sugar. sorry, can't be done. and vegetarianism is not for everyone, and can have long term detrimental effects for some people.

    in terms of religious reasons, if you have any desire to consider the Christian point of view, most Christians today are one of the members of do-it-yourself churches, read and "know" on your own, or of one of the standard denominations that have deviated from the tradition. And, this explains all the confusion out there in Christian-land. please study the fasting of the first church, the Eastern Orthodox Church. Historically, it is a little known fact in our country that this was the church first established by the Apostles. in line with this, we follow a 2000 year TRADITION of worship. and part of that tradition is a lot of fasting throughout the year. these fasts are vegan in nature, EXCEPT that shellfish was always allowed, and the rest of the year we are allowed the meat. this is how it was always done. it was a form of abstinence from things of the earth and lightening the mind a bit, at the same time knowing the body was suffering deprivation, though it could act as a cleanse.it was designed to bring us closer to God. if you have any desire to find out more about this tradition of fasting in the church, let me know.

    not trying to preach to anyone here, and hopefully i didn't offend anyone here. i really do respect everyone's views. since someone mentioned the bible and fasting i of course had to thrown in my 2 cents worth.
     
  14. HilltopDaisy

    HilltopDaisy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I've been vegetarian for most of my adult life, simply because I love animals, and there is soo much else you can eat. I've done a lot of research on the subject of vitamin B12. I have read that the human body is able to produce B12 at birth, but loses the ability when it takes it in through food. A deficiency is serious business-if you are concerned that you might not be getting enough, add dairy or eggs to your diet. There's nothing wrong with supplementing in pill form, either.
     
  15. Eloy

    Eloy Member

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    Dahling,

    You've a couple different issues going on here, maybe more....

    1) As a more erudite than I responder pointed out, the bible does not forbid the eating of animals.
    2) if you're not religious anyway, why do you care, which brings up...
    3) your real question, which appears to be," even though I love meat i may have to give it up, so where am i gonna get my B12?" the answer to which is..
    4) dairy products, unless you become vegan, in which case you choose supplements.
    Unless, of course, you're intention really was to stir up a huge debate...