Questions: Fleas, bones, etc.

Discussion in 'Working and Companion Animals' started by hollym, Aug 12, 2005.

  1. hollym

    hollym Well-Known Member

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    Hi Ya'll.

    Well more ignorance on my part! But....

    My puppy, the female one, is scratching at her neck again? I don't SEE any fleas and she has had the following: Advantage, flea shampoos for puppies (Zodiac brand), DE in her food, and a flea collar? Is it possible that she still has fleas? If so, when you try the garlic in the food, how much do you use, or is there some nice healthy tablet that one of you could recommend? Can I sprinkle DE on her if I am careful to stay away from her eyes and nose? I have been sprinkling it on the chicken litter and they haven't had any problems. It's pure food grade DE that I ordered from Sheeptamer.

    Bones: These guys are munching a rawhide bone a DAY! Is this all right? I got some real bones from the butcher and they loved them, but it seemed to give them a little looseness, is that from the raw meat left on the bone? There was a bit of it. And should I cook it?

    If you are feeding your puppies DE in food, and I have been, would you be able to see signs of worms with the naked eye? I haven't been able to. My mother said that if they hadn't run on infested ground, which they haven't at my house, no dogs there for years, and I take them to the very edge of the property to potty, that they were not in as much danger from worms? I will get a fecal check at the vet, but wanted to put it off until next visit, tommorrow, they get two shots and I am trying to space out the expense of the vet.

    thanks!
    hollym
     
  2. GoldenMom

    GoldenMom Well-Known Member

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    Is the pup wearing a collar? Pups love to scratch at those! Did you previously see fleas? If you did it would be possible that she still has fleas, though the base of the tail is a much more favored spot for fleas than just the neck. I've never used DE, so I can't comment intelligently on it. Check out the fleas and garlic thread for more info about that.

    Bones: Personally I'm not a big fan of rawhide for my dogs (I've had to fish a piece out of my dogs' throats more than once). If that was the first time your pup had been exposed to real bones, it doesn't surprise me at all that she had loose stools. Give her body time to adjust.
     

  3. hollym

    hollym Well-Known Member

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    Thank you Sarah. Yes she has a cloth collar and a flea collar on. They are three fingers loose, but maybe it bothers her anyway.

    Yes, they had fleas previously, yes, I could see them. Now I can't, so maybe like you say it is just the collars. She is white, so fleas are pretty easy to spot.

    Appreciate the info! I didn't know they could choke on rawhide, yeeps! I will stick to the real thing, our butcher sells them to us, so they are easy to come by.

    hollym
     
  4. Maura

    Maura Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Remove the flea collar. It takes two weeks for those things to kill a flea, and in the meantime your puppy is absorbing the chemicals. Puppies have been known to die from flea collars.

    D Earth should be put between the shoulder blades. They can't lick it off from that place. Consuming D Earth will help to control internal parasites, like tapeworms, but won't harm the fleas on the outside of the dog.

    Give your dog a bath with gentle shampoo, then rinse with a vinager solution. The acid will make the fleas drop off. When dry, apply the D Earth

    What are you feeding your puppy? Low quality feed will not offer enough nutrition for your pet to fight off parasites.

    A few chickens in the yard will take care of fleas pretty well.
     
  5. hollym

    hollym Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Maura. I will try the DE between the shoulder blades AND the vinegar rinse. Daisy did have a few really new tiny fleas, so evidently everything has worn off.

    The flea collars are FOR puppies, are they still a danger?

    We finally settled on that Bene-ful food? I think it's Purina? They like that second best of the three that we have tried. They don't like or eat the Hill's Science diet at all. They LOVE Dollar General puppy food, lol, but I thought that the Bene-ful was a better idea.

    I can't free range my chickens, we have too many predators, not everyone in my area keeps their dogs contained, and cats? Faggedaboudit! Also lots of hawks. And those are the DAYTIME predators! I wish I could, believe me!

    Anyway, they are doing very well, Jack gained SEVEN pounds in three weeks, Daisy gained six. Wow, I was pretty amazed at that! They just love to go to the vet, for some reason. Guess it's fun to get off the place and see some other dogs and people!

    hollym
     
  6. Rouen

    Rouen Well-Known Member

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    actually DE is rather uneffective once wet, and is not a proven treatment for internal parasites, it wont harm the dog but it's probly not helping at all either.
    and puppies that are raised on the dam will have tape worm, the level at which they are infested will vary though.
     
  7. BeesNBunnies

    BeesNBunnies Schnauzer nut

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    Unfortunately your assumption that there are no parasites because there haven't been dogs there for years is wrong. My place has been a hay meadow forever before I moved here. All my dogs came down with hook worms. My poor Jake kept getting diarrhea and throwing up. I ended up taking him to the vet twice and each time he was infested(this was within a 3 month period). We have a lot of foxes and I wonder if that isn't the source. I swapped heartworm meds to one that protects against hookworms and they are all fine now. A fecal from the vet is the only sure way of knowing. I know a lot of people like to give their dogs bones and rawhide chews but I won't give them to mine. Too much of a chance of them getting choked or getting a bone splinter. I give mine dog bisquits. They love the beef basted ones! They especially like to take it when I'm not looking and jump up in the middle of my bed and lick it so that they get the basting all over my sheets....sigh. As to your puppy scratching. I don't recommend the flea shampoo you can get from the stores. It has pyrethrin in it. This can't possibly be good for them. I can't handle the stuff without breaking out. I use dawn dishwashing liquid. It absolutely works. Never used DE so I can't comment on that. The thing you have to remember on fleas is that they don't actually live on your dog. They just hop on to eat then jump off again. Fleas like dark and damp. They LOVE carpet(one reason I ripped all mine out and replaced it with hard wood flooring). Treat around your house for the fleas and you will do more good than treating your dog. When it comes to carpets a shop vac will do a world of good at getting the little varmints out. A regular vaccuum cleaner isn't powerful enough.
     
  8. GoldenMom

    GoldenMom Well-Known Member

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    Rouen-
    Actually it's rounds that dam raised pups will have. They can only get tapes from eating fleas or rabbits/rodents. The tapes have to go through an intermediate host before they can become infective. Personally I agree with your assessment of DE for internal parasites. If one is going to try to use it I would recommend periodic fecal tests from the vet, otherwise there is no way of gauging the effectiveness.
     
  9. hollym

    hollym Well-Known Member

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    Wow, ya'll are a veritable gold mine of information! Thank you.

    Ok, the DE doesn't get wet, I have it in an old pepper bottle and sprinkle it on their food, which they wolf down in less than ten minutes, so that is covered! I buy a heartworm pill at the vet every month-they said after 20 weeks, that I would be able to buy a six month supply, right now they are going every three or four weeks.

    It is an Interceptor tablet.

    So...if I need to worm the puppies, what is gentle enough to do it?

    Also, Maura mentioned that flea collars were unhealthy, but mine was for puppies? Is this still something that I should be concerned about?

    I did vinegar rinse and DE sprinkling on their backs, and they seem to be doing better. Will try the Dawn, the guy at Petsmart said that any shampoo left on would help smother the fleas, so I used people brand baby shampoo, since it lathers so much better than the flea preparations.

    I was thinking on the way to work this morning, what about cedar and citronella oils mixed with a base of almond oil and vinegar as a coat conditioner, and flea repellant? Has anyone ever tried this?

    We do have foxes, and of course other dogs have run around on the place, so I will do the fecal check asap, just have been spending my vet money on the shots and heartworm meds so far. Once those are caught up I will have more dollars to put toward things like that.

    Is it me? Or is Advantage, not really all that great a product? It didn't seem to rid them of the fleas for more than about two weeks. I was going to try Advantix anyway, because we do have ticks, I picked one off of Jack's ear a few weeks ago, and also took what I think may have been a deer or seed tick off of my ankle this weekend.

    Thanks again,
    hollym
     
  10. GoldenMom

    GoldenMom Well-Known Member

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    OK I'll hit a few of your questions and let other people handle those I'm not particularly comfortable with.

    If you are using Interceptor monthly you shouldn't need to worm your pups with anything else unless something shows up on a fecal check (do get one as soon as everything else is paid).

    I personally hate flea collars (even ones for puppies). They are very concentrated chemicals that you hang around the dog's neck. They don't even work all that well. Yeah maybe there's no fleas around the head and neck, but it isn't uncommon to still see them around the tail!

    Shampoos-once you get rid of the fleas I would recommend that you use a gentle shampoo specifically for dogs/puppies. Human shampoos, even baby shampoo, is designed to strip too many oils out of hair (people make way more oil than most dogs).

    About the Advantage-it seems that certain flea products work better for certain dogs and against certain strains of parasites. Try the Advantix and see if it works any better. If not, try Frontline.
     
  11. hollym

    hollym Well-Known Member

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    Sarah, thank you. I know that I probably seem pretty clueless, but I haven't had a dog of my own for a long time and things are a lot different in Texas than up in Montana, i.e. flea populations, heartworm and lyme danger, etc.

    Ok, the collar goes. They are only scratching their NECKS anyway, so it must not be doing that much good. Someone posted a really great site this morning, I can't remember where, to thank them, but I will post it here for those that are interested in some other things to try on their dogs. I will also switch back to the puppy shampoo immediately.

    That is good news about the Interceptor. They will be on that for life, actually, we have an awful lot of heartworm incidence down here. My mom told me that it was vital to keep them on it, and I will.

    Will do a fecal check visit after next, they need one more set of the parvo combo and that will catch them up for the year. Then I save up for spay/neuter!

    Thanks to all of you for your help, I just want them to be healthy, they are such neat little dogs, and we really are madly attached to them already!

    hollym
     
  12. Guinea mama

    Guinea mama Well-Known Member

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    Have you thought about ear problems. My dogs scratch at their ears and necks when they have ear problems. As long as you are using Advantage or Advantix you shouldn't need any other treatment for fleas. Just to make sure I would have the vet check for fleas at their next visit. They run a comb along the back and you can tell if they have any or not. Also I would check the ears. Do they have a lot of gunk in them or an odor? Just something to think about.
     
  13. airotciv

    airotciv Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I have had a really bad time with fleas this year. I have used Advantage, Frontline and every other one that is on the market. Still tons of fleas on the dogs and cats. When talking to my Vet about this she told me to stop wasting my money. Stop treating the animals and treat the real problem their enviroment. So I went and got Zodiac Multi-purpose home and insect spray recomended by my Vet. I treated the whole house, their beds and the furniture. I have been doing this once a month during the summer and will do it about every 3 month during the rest of the year. So far NO fleas.
     
  14. hollym

    hollym Well-Known Member

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    I think ears are fine, Guinea Mom, but I know to keep an eye on them. They have floppy 'open' ears, if that makes sense, so it is easy to see into them. My son checks them, since Jack had a tick a couple of weeks ago.
    We also have a flea comb, and Daisy did have a few small ones.

    So...I will do some work on our environment too, I guess just because we didn't have a dog, doesn't mean we couldn't have had fleas outside. In Texas we have about every bug imaginable!

    I like the Zodiac products, have the spray and shampoo, they seem pretty gentle to me? I heard that sprinkling DE around helped too, and that site I posted had an herbal pillow to put in their beds. They spend a lot of their time on my covered latticed deck, it's cooler and they are up out of the dirt, so it should be easy to go over a wooden floor with some treatments. I'll try to put their cedar beds back in there, too, they kept dragging them out and playing with them, before.

    hollym
     
  15. airotciv

    airotciv Well-Known Member Supporter

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    hollym, I thought it was just my dogs that like to play with thier beds. I'm constantly retreiving a bed from outside. LOL You can use the Zodiac spray outside I use it on the deck that the dogs love. I have 5 acres so to treat the outside is not feasable. but if the dogs are in a small enclosed area, you might what to treat the yard. Just know that these products do kill off useful insects as well as the bad ones.
     
  16. hollym

    hollym Well-Known Member

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    Yep, I was a little taken aback by this playing with the bed thing! They have a whole bunch of balls and squeakie toys and a tug rope, also bones. Oh well, it's like when my kids played with bedsheets and cardboard boxes instead of their many toys, I guess.

    I'm organic around the yard, so will just have to do the deck and use some of the oils and herbs and sprays on the Molly's Herbal site. It will all get resolved eventually, I'm sure. The vinegar rinse helped, I've noticed.

    hollym