???Question???

Discussion in 'Homesteading Questions' started by ForrestFrank, Nov 25, 2006.

  1. ForrestFrank

    ForrestFrank Member

    Messages:
    18
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2006
    Location:
    Virginia
    My Brother in law is going to start in the carpentry feild. We are looking for a list of tools that he should get to start out with. Can anybody help us out? :)
     
  2. wyld thang

    wyld thang God Smacked Jesus Freak Supporter

    Messages:
    7,456
    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2005
    Location:
    Turtle Island/Yelm, WA "Land of the Dancing Spirit
    What kind of carpentry?

    We started helping a friend with trim and woodfloors, we use:

    chop saw, table saw, jigsaw
    nail gun and air compressor

    speed sqaure, long level and straight edge

    measuring tape ;)
    pencils/sharpy
    chalk line
    a thin pry bar kind of thing

    shop vac, broom
    dust mask and ear plugs
    two good hands and a strong back
     

  3. ForrestFrank

    ForrestFrank Member

    Messages:
    18
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2006
    Location:
    Virginia
    As far as we know he will be looking for a job building houses.
     
  4. wyld thang

    wyld thang God Smacked Jesus Freak Supporter

    Messages:
    7,456
    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2005
    Location:
    Turtle Island/Yelm, WA "Land of the Dancing Spirit
    does he have any experience? "building houses" is kind of general, I just know a little bit, but I know there are different sub contractors--cement work, either foundation or flat stuff(like garage floors, driveways); framing, drywall, roofing, siding, stonework, cabinets, trim/woodwork, flooring--tile, wood, carpet, painting, plumbing and eletrical. Maybe he should pick what he likes and call up the contractors. DO you have any friends in the business? Lots of people I know start out that way.

    Young guys do framing and drywall, a lot of people start there and work up as they get to know people. It's very tough work though.

    Good luck!
     
  5. ForrestFrank

    ForrestFrank Member

    Messages:
    18
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2006
    Location:
    Virginia
    He wants to do Frameing so he can learn the skills need to help us build a house in a few years.
     
  6. ForrestFrank

    ForrestFrank Member

    Messages:
    18
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2006
    Location:
    Virginia
    Also i am learning about the electrical side of building a house. I have been in the feild for about a year and a half.
     
  7. Kshobbit

    Kshobbit Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,190
    Joined:
    May 14, 2002
    Location:
    Kansas
    My beloved ex went to the Carpenters Union Hall and enrolled as a carpenters apprentice. He was then trained by the experienced union carpenters and was certified (or what ever) as a bona fide carpenter. He was, or is a darn good one too. You can get better pay that way even in non-union states as you have proof or your skills. Good luck
     
  8. CatsPaw

    CatsPaw Who...me?

    Messages:
    278
    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2006
    Location:
    Owen Co., Indiana
    Thang is generally correct, depending on whether he plans to work for himself or somebody else.

    If he's going to work for somebody else, then you can nix the chopsaw, tablesaw, nail gun and compressor. Those things almost always are provided by the employer.

    For himself, a talbe saw is only marginally necessary. When framing a house there is almost never anything that needs to be cut with a table saw (hence the term rough framing.) Most ripping would be done with a circular saw. Add the circular saw to thang's list. Oh, and the thin pry bar kind of thing is called a.....catspaw.

    Long level doubles as a straight edge (6' and a 2') but get a framing square. Make sure it's aluminum. And make sure there is a 12ths scale on one side. I like the black anodized ones because I can see the numbers easier.

    For someone, forget the shop vac and broom. He'll were a dust mask for about an hour and never wear one again (open environment usually blows dust away.) If you think he really wants a dust mask, get surgical masks. They're ten times more comfortable.

    Get a cheap belt set up. Forget the suspension rigs. Start cheap. Leather belt, two cheap bags. If he is of slimmer build, don't cut off the excess blet, he'll need it come winter when he bulks up with clothes. It will take awhile for him to figure out where and how he likes to keep things in his belt. It all depends on which hand you grab your tape and pencil with, which hand you grab your nails with, etc. Go cheap until he gets a rhythm. Then get something that suits the style. Being right-handed, I like a bag with internal loops on the right for a screw driver or something. Keeps them from getting buried. He'll need a combat chisel 3/4" wide.

    I've decided not to make any comments regarding unions. That would have to be his personal sacrafice....er...I mean choice.
     
  9. dennisjp

    dennisjp dennisjp

    Messages:
    334
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2006
    Location:
    Virginia
    and he doesn't even know what one is, LOL.
    A catspaw is a round or hexagon rod that has been bent at the end, split open and ground to points on both of the ends so that you can drive it with a hammer, under the head of a nail to get it out a little, and then take your hammer to finish pulling it..
    The bar CatsPawis talking about is a prybar. They come in several sizes.

    If your BIL doesn't know what tools he needs, that means he will be hiring on as a helper. One thing any boss looks for is for him to have a good toolbelt full of what he needs.
    If he can go to a few flea markets he can buy everything he needs, and not only will he save money, but the tools will already be used.
    When someone walks onto a job with a "new set of tools", no matter how full the set is, the other workers will automatically take him for what they call a cherry. Brand new guy to the trade. They make it harder on him to start with and harder for him not only to prove himself, but harder for him to learn the trade also. It's a mind game I hate, but unfortunately it is a way of life for most construction workers.
    I have fired 2 different men because they were riding a new man and both of them were fair carpenters. I have also seen men fired on large construction jobs, such as power plants because of it.

    1: 1 Used leather tool belt if he can find one.
    2: 1 - 20 to 24 oz. straight claw hammer, the larger it is, the faster he can drive a nail and that is something bosses look at.
    3: 1 -6" or 7 " rafter square, don't get the 12" because it looks better. It wont stay in the pouch.
    4: 8" Catspaw
    5; 6" to an 8" flat pry bar
    6: A good folding lock blade knife with a sheath, Buck or equal, and he needs to learn to keep it sharp. It takes me a bout 2 weeks to get a new one sharp with a medium and fine stone.
    7: Small and large pea shooter. They are a nail set that you drop the nail in one end and hit the other end when you can't get to something to drive the nail. These are a life saver. If the lumber yards don't have them, go to a vinyl siding distributor.
    8: 1- 3/16" and 1 - 1/4" flat screwdrivers
    9; 1- #2 Plillips screw driver
    10: 1 -30 ft. Stanley tape measure or something equall. No 12' or 16' pcs. of crap.
    11: 1 - Utility knife with hook blades and straight blades. Open the knife up and put 2 of the hook blades along with the straight blades that come with it, in it and close it back up.
    That is all I can think of right now that I would like to see on a new helper, but if any thing else pops into my head, I will come back to you, but that should get him started ok.
    Tell him to find out what they do for lunch, because it's a B to get somewhere and find out everyone has their lunch and you only have 30 minutes and the store is 15 minutes away. Also if he doesn't take his lunch, make sure he has got money for it.
    Also, this time of year, a 2 quart coffee thermos is like gold on those cold mornings. Even if it is hot chocolate. Plus a soup thermos to go along with the sandwich is nice for lunch if he will be eating on the job this time of year.

    I don't know how many houses I have built, but I was running the jobs after the first one I ever worked on, and this is the best info I can give you.

    Tell him Good luck and God Bless
    Dennis

    P.S. Tell him to pay as much attenion as he can to what everyone else is doing and learn the ropes as fast as he can,
    and if he wants to learn carpentry, that's all it is to it.
    Any other questions, feel welcome to PM me.
     
  10. ForrestFrank

    ForrestFrank Member

    Messages:
    18
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2006
    Location:
    Virginia
    Thank you Dennis for the helpful advice. I will be looking foward to any more advice you may think of.
     
  11. farminghandyman

    farminghandyman Well-Known Member Supporter

    Messages:
    2,466
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2005
    Location:
    Colorado
    I agree with cats paw, and dennisjp

    both very good advice, the only thing I would change is probably the knife and I would get a stanley utility knife, as the job site knife, and depending on the type of cutting necessary either the retractable for general but in rough stuff the fixed blade is better, (roofing drywall and that kind of stuff).

    I liked the professional try square, with a 11/2" blade width, instead of a speed square or the like,

    but keep with hand tools for now and build up after you know what is needed,

    when I started out I had a cloth nail apron (lumber yard advertisement) and a 16 ounce claw hammer, and a tape measure, and a carpenter's pencil but then that was nearly 40 years ago,
     
  12. ForrestFrank

    ForrestFrank Member

    Messages:
    18
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2006
    Location:
    Virginia
    Dennis since I noticed that you have been in the electricail feild before If you think off any websites or know any useful tips or hints about my trade "Electricial" please let me know that too. Since the company i was at before just had me digging ditches on cell sites. I really did not learn much there. But it looks like this company is going to try and teach me something.
     
  13. MELOC

    MELOC Master Of My Domain

    Messages:
    7,220
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2005
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    a buddy has been in the business for years and he likes his air cartridge powered framing nailer. there are no hoses to drag around.
     
  14. farminghandyman

    farminghandyman Well-Known Member Supporter

    Messages:
    2,466
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2005
    Location:
    Colorado
  15. dennisjp

    dennisjp dennisjp

    Messages:
    334
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2006
    Location:
    Virginia
    I have never liked a tri-square because they don't take much punishment before they will not gice you a true 90 deg. mark. A speed square as you call it, and I have too, according to whom I was working with, lol, is dead set unless you drop it from more than 30 or 40 feet, in which it could break and never be square again, LOL. I have droped a many of them and it's funny this comes up, because I just found the first one I ever bought. The boss ingraved my initials on it with one of those vibrating pincels :shrug: ,LOL
    But this boy , or I should say, young man, will get the feel of what he likes and what he don't like as we all did.
    And I did say to get a utility knife, with both hook and straight blades, but a lock blade knife can be used for a lot of things a u-k can't. IMHO.
    I still think I am forgetting something to tell him to add to the belt, but I can't put my finger on it.
    Any more help out there???????
    I got yopur PM and you are in a good paying location, but you will be working with some hard asses from all over. Just learn what you can, as fast as you can and roll with the punches.
    By the way, what type of build do you have and are you scared of hieghts.
    Doesn't matter so much about the build, but I don't care if you aren't scared of hieghts, get scared of them. Let heights scare you so bad you respect them, because the moment you think you can fly, you will, straight down, and as they say, it is the sudden stop that hurts.
    I am not saying be so scared you won't do what is needed to be done. I am saying respect the ground below you even if it is only a few feet.
    I fell 48 feet in 1978. Went back to work in 1980. I fell 10 feet 2 years ago and am on disability. I also had a friend that fell from the second run of ladder a broke his neck and died right there in front of me.
    What I am saying is cover your butt. Think safety first and job second.
    That is what I was trying to think to tell you. Be safe.

     
  16. MawKettle

    MawKettle What can I screw up 2day?

    Messages:
    288
    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Location:
    Green Acres
    Frank,

    While I am a complete idiot in these types of things, DH has offered the following suggestions (most deal with the simple things you would think of):

    1. Tape measure (at least 25 ft)
    2. Level (4 ft will do - but an 8ft is better).
    3. Tri square
    4. Skill Worm drive circle saw
    5. Standard hammer, pouches, etc.
    6. 10" table saw
    7. Ingersoll-Rand air compressor (don't ask me why the brand endorsement) ahem - I've been informed (verbally) that it will last longer than the pyramids..
    8. Pneumatic air gun - for at least 3.25" framing nails.
    9. Plumb Bob. I'm not sure if Bob knows that he's plumb - but apparently DH is convinced of this. :hobbyhors This is apparently a heavy pointed weight made of brass that dangles from a string so you can line up a roof joist with a mark on a floor (this is a DIRECT quote from DH....I have no idea what I'm typing at this point)...........
    10. A tri laser level is apparently should be on everyone's Christmas list...and OMG - WE'VE GOT ONE (Surprise, Surprise to me!)

    This is the official PawKettle toolkit - just don't forget a good pencil.
     
  17. dennisjp

    dennisjp dennisjp

    Messages:
    334
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2006
    Location:
    Virginia
    Forestfrank, I will give you the best idea I have. You need to search out a large electical company that has a big job going on close to you. Wiring a colledge or apartment complex or whatever. Make it a big job.
    When you find the job you want, put your application in as a helper.
    Do not go anywhere else to look for a job. I repeat, do not go anywhere else looking for a job.
    Right now, getting that job is your job.
    Both you and yopur BIL, be at that jobsite every morning when the general foreman gets there and worry the hell out of him.
    I'll bet if you are there Monday morning, and every day that week, you will have a job the next Monday.
    Make him know you want that job and you be there every single morning before he gets there, until he hires you. Don't miss a day that week. And make sure you talk to him every day if it is only to ask, are you hiring any helpers today, and tell him you need a job, sir.
    And you had better be clear of drugs, as I pray you are, because that stuff that is supposed to work for pee test don't work. I have seen a lot of good people get sent home because they trusted them.
    Count on atleast 30 days for a joint, a week, or maybe 2 for crack. have no idea about anything worst than that, but I have seen them go down because they would rather have the drugs than a good job.
    If your BIL wants to learn to build houses, tell him I said if he becomes a electrician, he can pay me to teach him everything he needs to knows and have money left over. It is a lot better career than being a carpenter. Being a carpenter isn't a career. It is a life of missery, unless you are working for yourself and to do that you need money you can't get being a carpenter.
    Trust me. I tried. I tried using welding as a fall back. thousand, fifteen hundred dollar pay checks and blew them trying to build a company.
    I thought learning all trades was a plus, but it isn't.
    If you want to go into construction, go for becoming an electrician and stick with it.
    God Bless
    Dennis
     
  18. wyld thang

    wyld thang God Smacked Jesus Freak Supporter

    Messages:
    7,456
    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2005
    Location:
    Turtle Island/Yelm, WA "Land of the Dancing Spirit
    Did I give away my girly-ish-ness by calling the thin pry bar thing a thin pry bar thing? It's red by the way ;)
     
  19. dennisjp

    dennisjp dennisjp

    Messages:
    334
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2006
    Location:
    Virginia
    Chaulk line and chaulk, and as CatsPaw said, a chisel. A 3/4" as he said will do good to start with, but I like to have a 1/2", 3/4" 1" and a 1 1/2" on the job site. told ya I forgot someting, LOL.
    I am a skinney little guy and I like to take a tool box with me also, because I can't climb around good with a lot of weight hanging on me, so the 3/4" chisel is what I used to carry in my tool belt and left the others on the ground. It doesn't take but a minute to reorganize your belt from working on the ground of floor to walking the walls and setting rafters and trust. Different jobs, different tools needed, and there is no sense carrying around things you know you won't be using.
    Another thing is it is nice to have an extra tape measure with you somewhere you can get to. It seems like every time a tape measure gets broken, it is in the first hour or two at work and then you will be throwing tapes back and fourth for the rest of the day. On top of that, you will, as Murfeys Law has it, be broke and can't buy one until payday and this will go on for the rest of the week. I used to keep 3 or 4 brand new ones in the truck for such an occasion. Loan them a used one when theirs broke and if they didn't have a new one the next morning, sell them one, at my cost, to be paid for on pay day, or say Monday morning before we got started.
    good battery powered drill is also something nice to have in the box, or in it's own box, but weight until you get that far before buying a tool box.

    But still, as I said, I would try my damnest to get haired as an electrical helper.
    Carpentry is something you can learn on your own.
     
  20. dennisjp

    dennisjp dennisjp

    Messages:
    334
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2006
    Location:
    Virginia
    LMAO, and no you didn't. Actually, you reminded me of the chaulk line, LOL.
    God Bless
    Dennis