Question about dog - undescended testicles

Discussion in 'Working and Companion Animals' started by QBVII, Sep 18, 2006.

  1. QBVII

    QBVII Well-Known Member

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    I posted the other day about wanting a Maltese.
    Well, I found a person locally who had Maltese puppies. I asked if she had any adults she was retiring from a breeding program.
    Turns out she has a year-old male she will sell.
    He has undescended testicles and she said that will require future surgery?
    Anyone with any experience please let me know your comments.................
     
  2. Pyrenees

    Pyrenees Well-Known Member

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    Has the dog been vet-checked?

    There can be several ways to have undescended testicles...hiding up in the groin = a little bit more involved than a standard neuter.

    If they are truely in the abdomen then it is comparable to a spay in terms of incision and recovery.
     

  3. Rouen

    Rouen Well-Known Member

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    they can wander up into the abdomen as well, my moms cocker had an incrypted testicle, the vet felt it in his groin a week before his surgery, the day of his surgery it was up in his abdomen, he also ended up losing his spleen during that operation as he had a tumor on it.
    I think the dog in question should have been neutered about 6 months ago.
     
  4. Looking4ewes

    Looking4ewes Well-Known Member

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    Undecended testicles are a cancer risk and will have to be removed. Costs will be about the same as a spay or more. I just paid $380 to have one retained testicle removed from my 1 yo pup. Sounds like the breeder is passing along this cost to you. Maybe she will come down on her price?
     
  5. QBVII

    QBVII Well-Known Member

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    She is asking $200 for him, he's about a year old and she claims she paid $600.
    I read on the'net last night that bilateral UT means the dog is sterile.
    So I would get him as a reduced price. She said he isn't reg. with AKC but ACA??
    I'm just wanting a pet, doesn't matter to me as long as he is a good Maltese.
    She does have another older male, about 8. He has never been housebroken, though. She only wants fifty for him.
    But this year-old has been housebroke before. I'll consider them both, leaning towards the younger one, though..........
     
  6. wvpeach1963

    wvpeach1963 WVPEACH (Paula)

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    I have a boxer that had to have his undecended testicles removed the vet said they were a cancer risk.

    cost me about $450.

    Call around and get price quotes on the surgery before you make your mind up .

    Porter had his surgery seven years ago. He's now 8 and doing great.

    Turns out the vet found a set of ovaries in him too, so it was a life saver as the vet said male dogs born that way always get cancer.

    Vet says he's a male, hubby and I say he's not so sure, acts more male than female, except the rest of my dogs let him get away with a lot of stuff, that is a female characteristic for sure.
     
  7. Immaculate Sublimity

    Immaculate Sublimity Seriously?

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    ok the bilateral undecended testicles will have to come out at an inflated cost of a regular neuter, as everyone has already said above...testicles can not be kept at body temperature thus they hang in their sack outside the body, testicles constantly exposed to body temp do indeed tunr cancerous. but that isnt even why I chose to respond to this thread. why I chose to respond was your next two lines... the ACA registration and the unhousebroken male.
    "as long as he's a good maltese" and "ACA registration" do not go hand in hand. ACA CKC (continental kennel club) and all the other 'offshoot' registries register dogs that for one reason or another could not be registered via the well known registries (AKC, the Canadian Kennel Club, UKC...etc.) either the original breeders got kicked for unethical breeding, or puppies were sold on limited AKC, UKC, or Canadian registrations and unscrupulous buyers bred the pups anyway and simply tagged a registration paper from one of the offshoots to the dog...in some of those registries you can even get 'papers' for mixed breeds. I would highly recommend that anyone thats "selling" a dog with medical problems like you're describing...you steer a wide berth around.
    either the seller should have the surgery done (should have been done at 6 months when they KNEW the testicles wouldnt decend) and recoup the cost by having an adoption fee...or the dog should be PLACED free with the understanding that the dog must be neutered right away. 200 + 300 or more for t he surgery means 500 bux for a dog that you'll probably not be able to housebreak...dont ever believe anyone that tells you a small dog like that is reliably housebroken. as far as the older dog goes...was he a stud? if so he'll never be house broken either and what kind of person keeps a dog for 8 years then simply offs it when it can no longer be bred? I'd question the ethics of this breeder. do the Math QBVII...
    ACA=crap
    UT=crap
    paying for the dog and the surgery= crap
    ethics of the breeder= crap
    summed up.....I think its a pretty crappy deal
    dont let your wants over ride your common sense. an ETHICAL breeder that finds a dog wont work in their program will spay or neuter the dog THEN place it in a home, and more than likely without any papers.

    just my .02
    Diane
     
  8. Corgitails

    Corgitails Well-Known Member

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    I don't think much of ACA, and I think I'd see if she'd come down on the price for what is a dog of questionable quality, but given how expensive well-bred Maltese are? I'm not sure you're getting a truly horrible deal.
     
  9. GrannyCarol

    GrannyCarol Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Thing is... a well bred dog SHOULD be a lot healthier than a poorly bred one. If you want a good Maltese, stay away from these deals. Unfortunately they are likely to be unhealthy and hard to live with. I've groomed dogs for over 30 years and seen my share of Maltese - there is HUGE difference between a nicely bred pup and what you find in the "off" brand registries. Even AKC pups can be pretty much anything. Because there is a good profit in breeding toy breeds, even poorly bred ones, people have bred them strictly for money and in puppy mills and bred on the offspring of these dogs. In many cases they were crossed with other breeds and registered as purebred. You will get a multitude of sizes, colors and coat types in "registered" Maltese (or any toy breed).

    In most cases we just want a nice pet with a certain look, and it doesn't have to be a great example of the breed. It can be hard to find that no matter where you get the dog. I've shown dogs for some 30 years too (retired now!) and I know that many show breeders are all about the look and will make compromises on health and temperament to get it - even if they care about health and temperament, they will still have to compromise if they are going to show and win. Any breed that is tiny has a pressure to make compromises in the breeding to keep the small size, for instance. Also any breed that is tiny (much under 10 lbs) is going to have more health problems (such as heart disease, internal organs with problems and joint and teeth problems).

    I've groomed decent Maltese that had to have anal gland surgery because their anal glands didn't empty properly and they had serious chronic problems in spite of care. I've groomed Maltese with chronic eye problems (runny goopy eyes and stains down their faces) and very few with a correct coat.

    That said... I like Maltese. :) It is common for them to have good friendly temperaments and to be very sweet. It is common for them to live a long time, even though some health problems must be dealt with. Good joints aren't all that important to a dog that weighs less than 10 lbs - they seem to do well even with problems.

    If you get the young male with the undescended testicles, what people have said is correct, they will have to come out and it will cost more than an average spay. It ought to be done as soon as possible. Also, check the teeth on any toy breed, it is common for them to retain puppy teeth that collect food and rot out the good teeth (and they are easy to pull usually when the dog is under for anything else).

    I wouldn't expect any toy breed male to be "reliably housebroken", btw. It can be done, but not all toy dogs really care and it can be a lot of work. Such dogs can be managed carefully and be good pets, if you don't mind a bit of clean up. We currently have four Silky Terriers and one of the girls is really quite good, the other two are questionable and our male (still intact at age 11, he was a show dog and top producing stud) is really quite good, but he will mark once in a while. They all have to go out to potty every couple of hours during the day, or there will be tiny puddles here and there to clean up. I love them, I don't mind. I was the one that didn't carefully train them as pups, so I don't consider it their fault.

    I suppose this is a longish post with more information than you wanted.. :) I say to read the breed standard at AKC, then look at the year old male. Is he the correct size? Does he have a very straight white coat and the pretty face? Are his eyes clear or goopy? Is his skin healthy looking or red and rashy? (many Maltese have skin allergies and that will stay with a dog forever) Are his legs fairly straight? If you gently move his joints, are they firm, or do they wobble all over? (You stand the dog squarely and very gently see if the front legs can be moved side to side with a finger, or if the hocks collapse forward with a light touch on them.) Gently fold him into a sitting position, is there a "snapping" sensation in his back legs? If so, he has slipping stifles (the knee cap is moving out of its slot) and could later require surgery to fix them. Are his teeth clean, reasonably straight and of good size? Does he have extra tiny retained baby teeth (can be hard to tell, btw)? Is his topline pretty much straight, his tail lay over his back?

    Mostly, for your pet, look for a calm and happy dog with no obvious health problems that looks like a Maltese (and a bit oversize is probably a good thing). If he fits that description, explain that you'd have to pay (get some quotes from a couple of vets) to get him neutered for his health's sake and don't pay too much for him. As for the 8 year old... if you find him appealing and are willing to work with him for the house training AND he seems outwardly healthy, then consider taking him for free. An older dog that is healthy should give you years of joy.

    Otherwise, your other best alternative is to talk to Maltese breed rescue - breed rescues often get some nice dogs in, usually have their health checked over and usually ask a reasonable "adoption fee". Show breeders sometimes get dogs back and want to find them good homes. Also some of them show a dog for a couple of years, breed it a couple of times, then want to move forward in their breeding program by placing their dog for a reasonable fee in a good home.

    Just WAY too many ideas! :)

    ~ Carol
     
  10. Step

    Step Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like this woman is running a puppy mill! If she isn't then she sounds like a careless person who doesn't hold her animals with much regard. In some respects it might be a good thing to take either one of these dogs and give it a good home, but ONLY after they have had a very thorough examination by a very qualified and reputable vet.

    Anyway, I had a maltese, an adoped one and he was wonderful... a very funny guy who was like a little old grumpy man when I got him at 7 years old. With a little tlc, and time, he turned out to be one of the sweetest dogs I ever had.

    It is true that Maltese are very expensive..... and unless the price has come down over the past few years, they range up to $1500. $600 is a steal even for one that isn't show dog quality.

    What about a rescue maltese? There are so many little furry people who have been mistreated and a rescue foster home has had the dog for a while, taking care of any physical problems and assessing it.

    Right now I have a Silkie who is 4.5 years old and I got her when she was less than 3 mos. She's a sweety too, and part of the reason I decided to change breeds, was because the silkies, as do the yorkies, have maltese as part of their breeding. There are so many little things she does that my Max did, it's uncanny.

    Whatever you do, go with caution with this woman, because she doesn't sound like she's a quality breeder. As far as having a year guarantee.... yah, right! Once a dog comes into your home...... and you fall in love with it, are you going to exchange it for another one, if it gets sick?? My son didn't and paid the $2000 to have her hip displasure operated on, instead of turning her over to the breeder and taking a new dog. I would do the same.

    I don't know what your income is, but if you don't earn too much money, then you can have this dog neutured by one of the SPCA's vets for no charge, in many states. However, call a vet, or an animal hospital or Vet. School and find out what the options are with the problems these dogs have. I understand wanting a dog, NOW! I waited 9 months after my Max died, and one day I woke up and said ~ today is the day! I travelled from one place to another in torential rain, until I found my Lexee... and though some may think this is a little 'weird'..... I believe that Max was with me that day, and led me to her. Long story...

    Let us know what you decide to do and pictures please of your new little bundle of joy.
     
  11. QBVII

    QBVII Well-Known Member

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    OMG

    I don't even know how to explain what I just saw.

    I'm nearly sick.

    I don't have the time or ability right now to describe this woman and her place but it was a puppy mill.

    I've never seen anything like that in my life.....{{{shudder}}}
     
  12. longshadowfarms

    longshadowfarms Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully your reaction here will have also come across to her. I'm suddering with you just imagining the situation. Guess I'll go hug my spoiled brats again.
     
  13. QBVII

    QBVII Well-Known Member

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    Before I talked with this lady, I'd gone and seen a couple of Maltese that were GORGEOUS but they were expensive.
    After seeing this ....whatever you'd call it I called her.
    An Amish man is sending her cash thru the mail, sight unseen for her two dogs, a male a female. He is going to breed them.
    I hope that won't turn out to be a puppy mill, too. :Bawling:

    So she's waiting to see if she receives his money before selling them to me or anyone else but I couldn't really afford them, they're worth it but....if I was her, I just wouldn't sell dogs to be used as breeding.

    I think I will forget about getting a dog for a while.
     
  14. NCGirl

    NCGirl Well-Known Member

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    I am confused by your last post. Are you considering the pups from this breeder or are you talking about another breeder?

    Seriously consider rescue. There are really some wonderful dogs in rescue that got there through no fault of their own and can be wonderful pets!
     
  15. QBVII

    QBVII Well-Known Member

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    Before I went to the lady who turned out to be a puppy mill breeder, I'd looked at two Maltese.

    I didn't get either of them. They were expensive.

    I still wanted a Maltese, and I saw an ad from another breeder in the paper; she had puppies but I asked her if she also had any adults. She said yes, so that's why I even went to her place to look.

    I was so shocked after being at her place and seeing the horrid conditions I just sort of flashed on how gorgeous and well-cared for the first Maltese were and I called her. Even though I realized, in the back of my mind, that they would still be the same price and everything I guess I just wanted the option of checking them out again.

    Then she told me they are basically sold.

    I thought about it but to tell you the truth; I really have my heart set on a Maltese. I have wanted one for over a year now.
     
  16. Caprice Acres

    Caprice Acres AKA "mygoat" Staff Member Supporter

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    There are MANY MANY MANY pure bred rescues, places that accept only a certain breed... Sometimes they accept dogs that fit the size/colors/haircoat and could possibly be crossbred, but they mostly work with PUREBRED RESCUES. Please look into rescuing a purebred Maltese before you visit a breeder. Most likely the adoption fee will be affordable, or you could talk to the rescue to work out a deal, possibly.
     
  17. ForMyACDs

    ForMyACDs Well-Known Member

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    A great place to start when looking for any breed is to contact the breed club. Many of the breed clubs have a Code of Ethics that any breeders recommended by the Club have to sign and abide by. Of course not all truthfully do, BUT it's a start in the right direction.

    Here's the Maltese national Club where you can check out their breeder lists:
    http://www.americanmaltese.org/

    You can also check out the AKC classifieds:
    http://www.akc.org/classified/index.cfm

    Good luck!
     
  18. Nyx

    Nyx Misplaced Appalachian

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    I haven't been to these, but here are a couple listings for Maltese rescues around Kentucky -

    http://www.scmradoption.com/

    and

    Maltese Villa Rescue (Lexington, KY and surrounding Counties)
    We rescue Maltese, Poodles and ALL Poos and offer a pick-up service in near by areas. After the quarantine period and special needs attended to, all dogs socialize together underfoot of my husband and me while waiting for a new placement home. Contact BJ at (859) 273-2564 or MalteseVillaResc@aol.com
     
  19. Step

    Step Well-Known Member

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    Bumping this up just in case someone wants to take a look as these beautiful fur babies who desperately need a home. The links are on the posts directly above mine.
     
  20. Rouen

    Rouen Well-Known Member

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    QBVII, did you report the puppy mill lady to the humane society or the police?
    just because you're not interested in one of her dogs doesn't mean they deserve to suffer. :shrug: