Q: Icky Noses

Discussion in 'Rabbits' started by Terry W, Apr 23, 2006.

  1. Terry W

    Terry W Duchess of Cynicism

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    I have a question about an Icky Nose--
    Calypso, a deformed Dwarf Dutch has had a rather nasty nose from day one--I have had him about 6 weeks now, and with daily cleaning, the nose is refusing to heal--all aother aspects of his appearance are improving-- coat has glossed up, nails are less dry. less shedding, weight gain, etc. I took a good hard look it it today-- after cl4eaning, and decided, the heck with it, and applied some liquid bandage. The nose is RAW, and bleeds a bit --especially along the top. Now Calypso is deformed, and I was wondering if maybe his grooming of himself is making him scratch his nose with his dewclaws. the nose is a bit more "upright" in appearance-- kinda like a pig nose, when one looks at it. His hair is not growing all the way to the edge of the top part, the way it is on the other bunnies.

    I trimmed his nails today, making double sure I had the dewclaws short and stubby, After he gets a bit of a rest, I will file them down to smooth off the edges. I am thinking a good triple antibiotic, applied topically, will be of some use Things look mostly irritated, but not like there is an infection present, except for the fact that some of the stuff that crusts up looks like serum...I am starting vitamins for the whole crew, especially the B's, because of the heat issues we have in this apartment building. I would like to use this guy as an education animal once I figure out the cause of his deformities (will be progeny testing him)

    Any Ideas on what the cause may be, other than him scratching himself while grooming?
     
  2. MaggieJ

    MaggieJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I can think of a few possibilities... dry air, an allergic reaction, possibly even irritation due to too much cleaning. You've dealt with his claws and if thiat is the problem there should soon be an improvement. You must be doing well by him if his condition is otherwise improving.

    You could try adding moisture to the air with a kettle in the room where he lives or put pans of water on the rads if that is the kind of heating you have. I know rabbits can also have problems with air quality. Perhaps airing the room out well on the next nice day would give him some relief.

    Please don't think I am criticizing... I lived for many years in apartments and I know how difficult it can be to deal with the dry, overheated, stale air. Hope you find something that helps the little fellow.
     

  3. Honorine

    Honorine Carpe Vinum Supporter

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    I think that Maggies right, it probably is the dry forced air in the apt. If he's getting better then your doing a good job, just keep on going. By 'progeny' testing I'm assuming your going to breed him? I was wondering why, because you seem like a pet person as opposed to a food person who is going to consume any disabled rabbits. Breeding a deformed animal purposely goes against everything we're taught as breeders, as one should always try to breed the best and the healthiest. If your breeding for meat you breed the healthiest and most vigorous, for show the healthiest and closest to breed standard, and for pets the healthiest and best tempered. If he does produce congenitally deformed kits what will you do with them? Cull them, keep them all? Who would want one as a pet? Just something to think about.

    I'm curious, what would you feel is educational about a deformed rabbit? Seriously, a deformed rabbit would upset my 6 year old and make him feel bad, because he loves rabbits, and knows that sometimes bad things happen, but it would still upset him.

    I am not in any way critisizing you, I don't know what your goals are, I see from your other thread that you go into classrooms which I think is great, but I was curious as to what educational message your trying to get across.
     
  4. Terry W

    Terry W Duchess of Cynicism

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    Honorine

    My purpose behind progeny testing on the dwarf Dutch is to see if his deformed legs are a result of poor early nutrition, or an expression of the dwarfism genetics. My main intent for getting the rabbits-- 3 of the four were "freecycle" bunnies, was to raise meat. The Rex had a huge abcess, and I knew that was probably why he was getting thrown away. The "mutt bunny" was in very poor condition-- and had been fed only carrots and lettuce!! This Dutch had his icky nose when I saw him, and he had already been through the Freecycle give away a couple times. Seems he originally was purchased at a pet shop. Anyway, if the deformity is dwarfism genetics, he will remain an education bunny, no breeding-- his leg deformities don't affect his ability to really scramble around here. He cant sit up the way the other bunnies can-- as his legs are quite splayed. I feel something of a twist in his upper front legs, and I think that is causing his dewclaws to scratch him when he grooms. he loves to be held, and given his small size, that makes it real easy to teach children, and adults, for that matter, how to properly hold a bunny.

    I have been "in dogs" for many years--And I am quite aware of what kind of breeder I DON'T want to be. Any of Calypso's decendents from the progeny testing that are showing the same types of traits will be raised comfortably. then used for meat( I have dogs that won't mind the smaller size) "Healthy" ( non deformed) looking ones will be sold as pets, AFTER I get them sterilized if the issue is showing up. And I do know I need to do a F2 to F1 generation breeding to know for sure ( Oh, have I mentioned-- genetics is a strong interest of mine) The little fella does not seem to be in any pain--and given the stress his back must be under as a result of the legs being splayed, I will be keeping a very close eye on him as he ages. One of these days, Maybe after I graduate, get the sheep started, and get into some sort of routine, I will tell you all about Frosted Acres--the goal, mission statement, birth and evolution. It has been a very long time, but my dream is starting to bloom--and it includes meat rabbits, some rare breed rabbits, all sorts of domerstic livestock, wildlife rehab, and a consulting business.. Ah Life
     
  5. Honorine

    Honorine Carpe Vinum Supporter

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    Hey do you think that he's not a actually a 'Dutch' rabbit but one of the dwarf breeds with Vienna markings? Reason why is because Dutch rabbits are technically a medium breed that unlike the Polish didn't carry the dwarf gene, its been said thats some lines do now, but not all. So if he has the dwarf gene and is very small then he could be a vienna marked something. Vienna marked rabbits carry the BEW gene. Their mismarks which appear to have Dutch markings, but its sort of a different gene. That could be what he is, just a thought.

    Leg problems, Rickets? I've seen Dobes with rickets, adult ones whose legs were still bowed and twisted because they weren't treated well or early enough. Always seemed to effect the front legs not the back, wonder if a rabbit could have rickets?

    Abcesses in rabbits are often caused by pasterella, same bacteria that causes snuffles. I think that they can do a culture test now to see if a rabbit is a carrier or not.

    I wasn't posting to question your ethics, or be a pain, really, just saying what I thought when I read your plans, no offense meant. Its neat that your using them for your dogs BARF diet, I know a number of people who feed a good bit of rabbit to their dogs, and their happy with the results.

    I have a pair of fawn Silvers, talking about rare rabbits, and I'm quite pleased with them. Their a very ancient breed, its said that Sir Walter Raleigh brought them back to England in the mid 1600's. I like them, like the Silver Foxes too, very unique looking.

    Sounds like you have a lot of wonderful plans, wish you great success, hope you and the bunnies and the dogs get out of that apt soon!
     
  6. rabbitgal

    rabbitgal Ex-homesteader

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    I think http://islandgems.net and www.barbibrownsbunnies.com has some information on genetic defects, and in my opinion, there's probably enough information online to track down your bunny's defect without doing progeny testing.

    BEW (blue eyed white) or Vienna white rabbits can produce mismarked offspring with Dutch-like markings, and some Netherland Dwarf rabbits have a genetic condition known as Max factor...usually lethal, but some animals have survived. Basically the kits are born with eyes open, and twisted, deformed flipper-like limbs. Deformed limbs could also be a result of a nutritional deficiency...Rabbit Production goes into that...
     
  7. Terry W

    Terry W Duchess of Cynicism

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    Calypso's Icky Nose is calmed down a bit--The bright red raw portion is now a more normal pink-- and the liquid bandage seems to be keeping his hair from sticking to the nose when he grooms his body. Right now, only my "mutt bunny" weighs more than 5 pounds-- I am wanting to get a scale for the other guys so I can get a more accurate measurement of their weights. I want to produce meat for the dogs, so I may as well progeny test-- the offspring would serve, in the long run, a dual purpose. But I will peruse the sites suggested next week, to see what they have to offer ( this is a bad week)
    Oh, Velvet's abcess was pasteurella and something else-- there was evidence of a puncture wound being the "source" of the issue--( I was sticking that bunny twice a day for weeeks with a rather expensive Antibiotic)the vet followed the scar tissue down between a couple ribs-- the actual abcess was contained neatly between the skin and ribcage, anchored to the rib area only by the scar tissue. I am still working on massaging the scar tissue from his lousy stapling job down to a smoother feel.