Puzzled About Bottle Feeding Doeling

Discussion in 'Goats' started by JAS, Apr 6, 2005.

  1. JAS

    JAS Well-Known Member

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    I have a two+ week-old doeling, one of twins. The mother does not like her, loves her sister though. I started to supplement feed her last week when I decided the mother was not letting her feed, she was a week old (I had seen her nursing during the first few days). What is puzzling me is she isn't very hungry half the time I try to feed her, the other times she feeds good. I see her sneaking up on all the mothers and trying to grab a quick meal. I don't think the mother lets her nurse, have seen her flip the kid over her back once. Should I be worried about feeding her more or just keep on feeding her if she will take the bottle. Not sure what else to do. She is one of my oldest kids but is about half the size of everyone else. Thanks.
     
  2. Milking Mom

    Milking Mom COTTON EYED DOES

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    Can you pen her separately and feed her exclusively with the bottle? That way you will know her exact intake. Mama might hurt her if not separated. Sounds like she can get kind of mean with her.
     

  3. mpillow

    mpillow Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If you are supplementing with something other than her mothers milk....she will not smell right and could add to the obvious rejection. I would seperate.
     
  4. LuckyGRanch

    LuckyGRanch Well-Known Member

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    If you leave her...you'll lose her.

    The Voice of Experience and School of Hard Knocks! :waa:
     
  5. JAS

    JAS Well-Known Member

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    OK, I took her away this morning but have not been able to get her to eat. Maybe 2 to 4 oz so far today and most of that was forced on her. Any suggestions?
     
  6. Freeholder

    Freeholder Well-Known Member

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    Keep offering her the bottle -- when she gets hungry, she'll eat. It sounds like she'd been stealing milk, from her mother and/or other does, so it may take a little while to get it through her little head that milk now comes from the bottle! Don't know what kind of goats you have, but this kind of thing is one of many reasons why I bottle feed all my kids from birth. Now, if that baby is half the size of the others, but not always hungry (which means she's getting something to eat somewhere), it's possible she has something else wrong with her, and you may lose her, anyway. I had twin buck kids like that one year. One was born a lot smaller than his brother, never did catch up, and finally died when they were three or four months old. All you can do is your best, the rest is up to God.

    Kathleen
     
  7. mpillow

    mpillow Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Do you have any goat drench that you can add to her milk? The vitamins in it may help boost her a little....One of the B vitamins also stimulates appetite....B-12 I think.
     
  8. JAS

    JAS Well-Known Member

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    I don't have goat drench but I have some type of electrolyte mix for calfs, I will try a little of that. I have been mixing some medicine I got from the vet, to help with any stomach upset. I also gave her a shot of penicillin last night in case she has coccidosis. I got about another 4 oz in her, she is starting to act hungry but after sucking for a little bit she will stop. She pooped good this morning (slightly greenish dark pebbles), I am hoping she will feel better after take??

    She does have the tips of her ears folded, the only visible defect but I suppose there could be something else wrong with her. She was a little smaller than sis at birth, a little weaker, too. The mother is a first-timer and had left the two in the barn where I found them. This one was laying on some snow! I put everyone in a pen for about five days to make sure the mother knew these two were hers.
     
  9. allenslabs

    allenslabs Saanen & Boer Breeder

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    If she doesn't like the bottle you might try feeding her in a bowl. I bought a couple little doelings that were a month old when I got them and they didn't want anything to do w/ the bottle but they needed milk. So I tried a bowl adn that worked good. I had to stick their nose in it the first few times. Actually a lot but they ended up knowing what that bowl was for! LOL! Anyway just a thought!
     
  10. mpillow

    mpillow Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Two things

    1. You may want to enlarge the nipple whole ever so slightly so she gets more per suck. A little yogurt on the nipple will give her beneficial cultures too. Milk at 105 degrees

    2. If you switch to the bowl method put it up to the level of her front shoulder in standing position.

    If she is pooping thats a good sign....it also sounds like she was chilled at birth which is usually fatal....seems you got lucky.

    Keep us posted!
     
  11. JAS

    JAS Well-Known Member

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    I am going to rename her YoYo! Most of the time she is not hungry, I try to force some into her. Today she woke up hungry and was hungry about every 5-6 hours (good sign) but she will only take 2-3 oz at that time. I am hoping the medicine will kick in and she will start eating better. It seems like this milk replacer gives her a tummy ache and after she goes poo she will be hungry within the hour.

    Question - How long should I give her penicillin? I have the short-term stuff. My vet didn't say for her but for another case he said to give for three days.
     
  12. animal_kingdom

    animal_kingdom Well-Known Member

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    You're doing a good job. Stay patient and persistant.

    I have a small one that I am trying to bottle feed. The mother was sick shortly after giving birth and she is loving to the baby but won't let her nurse long. I take the baby about 6 times a day and bring her into the barn where it is quiet of her mother's sounds and scents. It takes a very long time for her to get down 1 oz.

    I noticed she doesn't suck. She chews the nipple to get the milk out. I have to pry open her mouth to take the bottle in the first place. Then I hold the bottle with my fingers against her mouth. Most times I have to gently hold her mouth shut. I tickle her butt and rest a finger on the top of her nose.

    She does drink. I think yesterday the most I got in her was 4 oz. at one of those times I was out. Every other time about 2 oz at a time. She is a month old but only 10 pounds. I thought she was just tiny as her mom is small and she was 5# at birth. Once I charted up her weight gain per day and had a more experienced goat friend tell me that she was under nourished and to stay with her 20 mins or more to get her to eat.

    She has plenty of energy and everything else looked normal so I didn't worry. Now I watch the interaction between her and the mom when the baby goes to nurse. I think if she is in the habit of being hungry, she may not really know what she's missing. I know that 2 oz makes her very full and sleepy. I think in a few more days she will be running when she hears me call her. She will learn what a full belly feels like and where to fill up at!
     
  13. debitaber

    debitaber Well-Known Member

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    your doing a great job, but if you can't give her mothers milk, give her reg. sotre bought vitamin b milk. that will be fine, and much better than milk replacer. with a lot less problems. the reason she isn't eating much at a time, but wants to eat more often, is because that is how they eat on mom, less milk, but a lot more often. after all, it is right there, so they just suck until they get satisified, then go play or sleep, then go get more.
     
  14. greenacres

    greenacres Well-Known Member

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    It sounds like you are doing everything right. What type of bottle nipple are you using? My kids like to use a regular baby bottle nipple. I just enlarge the hole a little bit. It is softer and smaller. They don't seem to choke on it.
     
  15. JAS

    JAS Well-Known Member

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    I am using the Pritchard nipple with pop bottle. The milk replacer is general purpose but I could go to my neighbor and get some raw cow's milk or I suppose I should tie up one of my goats and milk her :rolleyes: I do not milk my goats, though I did have to milk one to feed her triplettes at first. I weaned her boys off of her about a week ago, would she be starting to dry up or could I get her going again?

    Libby (YOYO) woke me up at 3:00 last night screaming hungry, yeah! She took about 4 oz. I think she is hungry again so I better go.
     
  16. JAS

    JAS Well-Known Member

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    Darn goats! She died last night, would have been 7-weeks today. She kind-of went down hill about a week ago, not eating much again and had a respiratory "cold", coughing and foaming when I feed her. I could only get maybe 2 oz in at a time stopping to let her breathe about every 1/4-1/2 oz. I gave her more Penicilin and she started to get better this week, was up to almost 4 oz. Saturday she started to cry a little when I fed her, but she ate fairly well and was hungry. Last night when I fed her, she could not open her mouth and would cry when I pried the nipple in her mouth but she seemed hungry. After a few sucks she quit and cried a bit. So I put her down. She stood for a while then tipped over and twitched a little. She was dead within 10 minutes of trying to feed her????

    I figured there was something else wrong with her and since she was not eating much it could have been lack of nutrition. But she died so fast. She was lethargic most of the day, but she never really did have a pick-up-and-go.
     
  17. Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians

    Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians Well-Known Member

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    I am sorry you lost the doe, but this is a good lesson for everyone who raises ruminants. All purpose soy milk replacers simply kill, very very slowly, small ruminats especially but even young bigger ruminants like calves. Soy does not allow the kid to form a curd in it's tummy, it is not absorbed in the intestine in this liquid form, so the kid never really grows like it's mama raised counterparts. It's also what gives bottle feeding a bad name, when you are bottle feeding cheap replacer of course it is inferior to mama's milk. Once you don't have curd formation and start with scours, then you start medication which further hurts the stomach and intestines benefical bacteria, and then you water down the formula, more liquid, add electrolytes and before long they don't even have scours they have diarrhea with blood in it from sloughing intestine. It's a vicious circle, worse is the old timers and vets who then have you take them off all milk (which replacer isn't milk anyway) and then put them on things to stop them up, which contain no calories, they get weak, and die from this slow starvation.

    If you don't have goats milk to use than use grocery store milk, until the kid is ruminating, once chewing a cud, you can slowly start switching them to any non soy milk replacer, but follow the directions exactly. Vicki