Pulling tires for excersize??

Discussion in 'Sheep' started by punksheepshower, Jun 21, 2005.

  1. punksheepshower

    punksheepshower LiveLongLaughLotsPlayHard

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    has anyone ever had their lambs pull tires as an excersize to harden butt and top muscles?

    if so, how big of a tire did you use, how long, how often etc.
     
  2. Ronney

    Ronney Well-Known Member

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    This may sound a dumb question, but why would you want to do that?

    Cheers,
    Ronnie
     

  3. Maura

    Maura Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I've heard of doing this for dogs.

    For sheep, I'd give them a mountain to climb. If none are available, you can set up obstacles for them to jump over and dodge around.
     
  4. livestockmom

    livestockmom Well-Known Member

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    No offense, but this is the reason why I wasnt terribly thrilled when our oldest wanted to follow in my footsteps and show in 4H.
    Things have really changed since I was nine. We fed corn, oats, barley, and Alfalfa with clean fresh water - same thing my son did this year with his market lambs... they are out on irrigated pasture...

    New way: no pasture, makes a big belly.
    drag a tire, put on a treadmill, walk 3+ miles a day
    pinch or slap their back to make it tougher and see the muscle
    feed milkshakes and yogurt and all medicated feeds, no hay, big belly
    Right before show, soak in freezing cold water to tense
    up their muscles.
    Surgically removing the tail into the back bone.
    I could go on and on with all the crazy stuff.

    I have always wanted to know where the parents are of the children, is this okay with them? Are these animals YOU would want to eat?
    Has it really become all about the money or doesnt the childrens personal integrity come into play knowing they raised the healthiest most humanely treated animal possible?
    To think the children who have done these things are rewarded by having the winning most valuable animal sickens me...
    Im just old fashioned I guess. Please listen to your heart when you hear of all these practices. No money can replace the feelings of knowing you do what is right, not what makes the most money. Just a mom's opinion.
     
  5. Maura

    Maura Well-Known Member Supporter

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    What makes you think the children are doing this. It's common knowledge that parents are likely to be the ones making sure the sheep are fed and watered and pulling tires.
     
  6. livestockmom

    livestockmom Well-Known Member

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    Its the children I see at the shows doing these things, I know if my son got these ideas from his leader or from the many Market Lamb web sites geared for kids all giving out this info, I would say "no way, no how".
     
  7. SmokedCow

    SmokedCow Well-Known Member

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    Well times have chaged you are right...but really...if you have market animals..you dont pasture them. Not in todays world. Its corn and water all the way with a pellet supplament. Tires and such are to make the lamb build muscle...just liek people lift weights and run...does the SAME THING...The slapping and such im not to big on...i show sheep..so i know what i lik eto do...and thats not one of the things...I dont thing the animal should be hit..We feed ours feed...not a liquid diet...we know a guy who does this...has really nice sheep...just they are always sick and such..and its crazy! ugh...and the tail thats so short...thats done when they are banded...no trick there. BUT...we learn that if you band them tight...that it can cause anal blow outs...not a good deal... but...your pinning all of this on the kids? how? why? where do u think they learned it? PARENTS! thats where...Im 17..i show sheep in FFA and 4-H in south dakota...show jockeys come in and fit the animals...its parents who do the work. I do all my own breaking leading ect. My father one clips and buys the feed...thats it. now...these are animals you eat...I think i woudl rather eat this lamb thats lean and was some kids pet then a ugly fat lamb who was ina mud yard.....but thats just me...and in SD we dont get any money at state leavel..and i agree with you that people just do it for the money...I do it to have fun! i love it! I remember one year my sister and i had 10 sheep...and we got 10 purples! It was fantastic...but i agree some of these are sick and cruel..I respect what you said..and back you up on some!
    AJ
     
  8. SmokedCow

    SmokedCow Well-Known Member

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    my father doesnt help me...well he does when i need help i dont ask him to go out and run the sheep. Sure he tightens up when i slack but you cant say that all parents do all the work. just my 10 cents.
     
  9. Ronney

    Ronney Well-Known Member

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    Mmm, I think this post leaves me a little flabbergasted!

    I've not asked what 4H is as I thought that all would be revealed in the due course of time. I feel that it is a bit like our Calf Club here. Run by the schools (originally rural schools) and the child reared a calf, lamb, goat etc. from birth through to show day, the idea being that the child learnt to care and rear an animal. The animal was also supposed to be able to do some basic "tricks" - lead, stop, jump over little obstacles and come to it's owner when called. As the years have rolled on, it's become very competitive and the original concept has been lost. Is this similar to 4H?

    That not withstanding, if what I read here is correct, I'm appalled as much of it borders on cruelty - and there is not other way to describe dumping a lamb in freezing water to tense up the muscles :grump: Dragging tyres and hitting it? Where are some of these people coming from?

    And when do these sheep ever see a blade of grass. Corn and pellets all the way must make them the most gross tasting animal - fat and bland.

    SmokedCow, I think I would have to take issue at a couple of your comments. Sheep are not supposed to have muscle that would leave Mr Universe in the shade so why stress the thing out by making it drag a tyre around. If sheep must be shown, why can't they be judged on their natural attributes rather than some souped up idea that humans have as to what they should look like.

    Secondly, I live in a country that pretty well does nothing else with it's sheep than produce market animals, the bulk of which are exported to Europe, the UK and the States. All of these animals, without exception are pasture reared.

    Livestockmom, if I were you I would stick with your morals and teach your children to rear and respect the animals in their care.

    Cheers,
    Ronnie
     
  10. animal_kingdom

    animal_kingdom Well-Known Member

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    Yes Ronnie, 4H is similar to your calf club. It's for all ages of children for almost every animal.

    There are always things in any competitive place that makes a person cringe but there are also those that play fair and do things properly.

    I also prefer a "natural" rearing of the animals I will be eating. I don't want to taste yogurt or milkshake if I'm eating lamb...
     
  11. livestockmom

    livestockmom Well-Known Member

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    Thank you Ronny, After reading Smokedcows reply, I can see that these things are done and the youth think very little about it. Thats where I ask where the parents are to say " Look, other people may do these things, but we do not." All I can say, is we have animals that that place in Grand Champion and Reserve, and they are treated with utmost respect... (and raised on irrigated pasture)
    All i'm saying is to follow your heart when it comes to how you animals are treated, your personal integrity is worth more than the premium money you may win.
    Oh, Smokedcow, im not talking about the short tail docks done with banding, i'm talking about the surgically removed tails up into the back of the animal, where the stitches are. :no:
     
  12. punksheepshower

    punksheepshower LiveLongLaughLotsPlayHard

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    well didnt mean for one little question to start all this. it was just a question. i think pulling a tire is cruel. :soap: if you want your animal to be lean and stuff do it yourself. work with it, run it, dont slap it or pour freezing water on it. if youve done evrything you can up until you show it, you wont need cold water to make the mucles tight. Lambs naturally eat grass. their body has to be "off" with out it if you get wha tim saying. my lambs eats grass everyday. he gets to graze for about 30 minutes. yes, genetics play into the fact of haybelly or not. some lambs could eat a bale of hay and have no belly what-so-ever. others could do that and explode. if you have your tricks and they work for you then yay for you. do it your way. everyone is intitled to their opinion and some like to try everything on the market and have a stricktly supplement fed lamb..others like to do it other ways. dont critisize people for their way of doing things. if it works for them it works. yes, somethings may be cruel such as surgically removig the tail head and hitting them to make them harder. thats just ridiculous. theres better ways to make muscles harder. try isometrics. teaches the lamb to brace and builds muscles. and oops the tail head is a centimeter too long. dont cut it out! leave it be. unless its causing harm to the animal, leave it alone! ...wow ok sorry im am complely off the soap box...
     
  13. YuccaFlatsRanch

    YuccaFlatsRanch Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Like everything - it goes to hell when you add money in to the equation. The more money and there is BIG MONEY - the further to hell it goes.
     
  14. animal_kingdom

    animal_kingdom Well-Known Member

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    No one is upset with your original question. You have a valid question. It just then led to opinions...in fact, similar opinions to what you believe.

    Please don't be offended by anyone.

    Yuccaflats is right. Money and prestige can drive people to the most outrageous thoughts and behaviors. It's such a sad thing that it causes great opinions to come forth.
     
  15. punksheepshower

    punksheepshower LiveLongLaughLotsPlayHard

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    ..."money is the root of all evil"...

    why cant everyone jus do this for fun? some people get wayyy to serious about this and they forget that the point is to learn and have fun.
     
  16. kesoaps

    kesoaps Well-Known Member

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    Punksheep, I think it was a great question, and obviously brought up some very valid points by folks here. I don't think there's anything wrong with having your lamb do some pulling...maybe a cart for fun, just not too heavy, it will still add a bit of muscle tone, and there's nothing wrong with that.

    Ronney said:
    I came across a website on market lambs, written by a sr 4-H member (or so it seemed in the article) on how it really doesn't reflect the true value of an animal. We very nearly did the market lamb thing this year, I've got a good gaining lamb, but he's a Romney cross and from what I've heard that will drop him in the standings as he's not as long as the big suffolk/hampshire crosses. Not that he won't taste as good, mind you! Fact is, he'll likely taste better because we only grass feed our sheep!

    I think there's enough of a market in private sales to turn the tide with how kids begin to look at market lambs. It may take a few years, but enough demand from the consumer and people will eventually take notice. We plan on having brochures available on grass fed lamb at the fair this year in hopes of educating more of the public.

    BTW, Ronney, 4-H isn't associated with the schools. FFA (Future Farmers of America) is, however. 4-H is open to anyone from third grade through 18 and covers a multitude of projects, from agriculture to art to computer science. It basically fits any hobby you want it to, but the main thing is for the kids to learn record keeping, public speaking, and marketing of their project. This is where the market animals begin to fall back, because the kids go begging for sponsors to drive up the price of their sheep (or other animal.) Last year the top market lamb sold for over $6 lb at the sale. Since he weighed about 130, that meant the kid made nearly $800 on that lamb! Not a bad profit margin :no:
     
  17. punksheepshower

    punksheepshower LiveLongLaughLotsPlayHard

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    i dont know how it is in the ffa (national ffa, changed in the 1980's because virtually nobody becomes a farmer anymore) around your area, but at our school. we learned all the same things that youre saying your 4-h kids learned. our ffa doesnt have computer science but you can enter in mechanical design, market animals, horticulture, and a wide spectrum of other things. we learned record keeping, competed in public speaking, LDE's and CDE's which every ffa chapter participates in. those are all things you have to put a lot of time and effort into. we do just as much as the 4-h kids. (if what youre saying is we dont)

    at our fair last year the starting bid for every animal no matter what place or species was $1,000.00. the gc market lamb got $1600.00 and was between 105lbs-119lbs.

    every kid in our ffa runs and works with the animal and we all spend between 15-25 hours a week down at the barns not to mention also doing our homework and keeping up our grades so we can show the animals. not a lot of people are into the supplementing them and using a bunch of "tricks of the trade" most people just feed the grain, hay and work witht the animal. some kids last year were told that grass was bad for them....but yea not true. like i said my lamb grazes at least 30 mins. everyday.

    my point being. we work hard for what we end up with and we do it without the use of "devices" and supplements.

    :soap: excuse me for being on a stupid soap box again. im sorry :(
     
  18. SmokedCow

    SmokedCow Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry!!!! I didnt mean to offend anyone..it was one of those you get caught up in the moemnt type of deals. I did not know that people surgicly remose tails....i've seen very close to the butt with a band...

    After reading Smokedcows reply, I can see that these things are done and the youth think very little about it.

    I think about it everytime i see someon iceing a lamb. But really...should we be saying where are the extenstion educators? We have set rules in SD....yet they are not inforced...the kids who ice and pull the lambs up on the frount feet to make them stand taller and to strech them out get the showmanship ribbions...

    SmokedCow, I think I would have to take issue at a couple of your comments. Sheep are not supposed to have muscle that would leave Mr Universe in the shade so why stress the thing out by making it drag a tyre around

    i'm not saying for them to drag tires around...i dont have mine do anything fancy like that...its just a little run and walking...thats all we do....Now im siding with both sides...

    And yes...a lamb on corn and pellets is not the best tasting...i don't eat lamb...so i really dont know...what it taste like...But our calves who are rasied on corn and hay taste great to me...so yes...yay for me

    Now i have won my fair share of trophies....mostly weight of gain...i had a ewe win back to back 2 years running...we fed her corn and hay...no biggie...

    I'm sorry if i offened anyone...Thats the game....
     
  19. animal_kingdom

    animal_kingdom Well-Known Member

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    PunkSheep, most of us know how hard you work. I think FFA isn't given enough credit for all they do. I remember..way back when...I was in school, people gave the FFA kids a hard time. They wore their jackets to school on days that they were having a competition or going out for a FFA trip. I don't ever remember hearing them get the credit they deserve.

    You do work hard. Stick with it. The educational rewards are major and so many other things that you will be prepared for in your future.

    I'm really glad when a younger kid/adult is on here learning stuff and asking around about things and even just putting their thoughts and ideas in. We are all here to learn from eachother and you have as much to teach us as we have to teach you.

    You and SmokedCow are further ahead in your thoughts and future than most kids your age.

    Hang in there and keep up your great work with animals!!!
     
  20. livestockmom

    livestockmom Well-Known Member

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    Your absoluely right SmokedCow, it is the kids doing the icing and the liquid diets and all the crazy stuff that win when it is written that it is not alllowed in the first place... teaches the other children what they should do to win, doesnt it? It is very frustrating. We just got in an hour ago, its our fair right now. My son got 3rd in the Futurity class ( rate of gain), Showmanship tomarrow.

    Yep... prices usually start at $1,000.00 here too.