Property Rights question

Discussion in 'Homesteading Questions' started by WAB, Dec 9, 2006.

  1. WAB

    WAB Well-Known Member

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    After reading the threads about reposession and privacy, I want to ask the question.

    What is your definition of property rights and how important are they to you?


    I was amazed at some of the posts. A lot said that it was ok because the trespasser was "doing his job." I define trespassing as being in or on someone elses property without permission.

    This is the law.


    Trespassing is a legal term that can refer to a wide variety of offenses against a person or against property. Trespassing as it relates to real estate law means entering onto land without consent of the landowner. There are both criminal and civil TRESPASS laws. Criminal trespass law is enforced by police, sheriffs, or park rangers. Civil trespass requires that the landowner initiate a private enforcement action in court to collect any damages for which the trespasser may be responsible, regardless of whether a crime has been committed. Traditionally, for either type of trespass, some level of intent is required. Thus, the trespasser must not simply unwittingly traverse another's land but must knowingly go onto the property without permission. Knowledge may be inferred when the owner tells the trespasser not to go on the land, when the land is fenced, or when a "no trespassing" sign in posted. A trespasser would probably not be prosecuted if the land was open, the trespasser's conduct did not substantially interfere with the owner's use of the property, and the trespasser left immediately on request.

    I have a real problem with people trespassing just because of who they are or think they are. All I ask is to knock on my door and ask permission. I dont care if it is a hoodlum,cop,repoman,game warden or the president of the united states! I bought and paid for my land. I pay the taxes every year. My name is the only one on the title. I have control of my land.

    If someone else can tell me what I can and cannot do with my property, then I dont own it. That is communism. What amazes me even more is that people are "ho-hum" about this. I'll bet George Washington is turning over in his grave while this nation heads towards communism and the people dont care!!! This nation was created for freedom. Can you call this free? Is there nobody left to standup?
     
  2. muzzelloader

    muzzelloader Well-Known Member

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    It does appear that a lot of folks nowdays are so programed that its O.K. for some one to do as they please to them or their property because "that is the way it is done now " this seems to be especialy so if some one states " I am from " add your own officious sounding title. My manner of upbringing was that your personal property and belongings are yours and no one other than you. This is historicley one of the marks of a free people that your land is yours and anyone trespassing was a doing something to chalenge your personal freedoms. It has been seen as a cause for serious problems and even deadley force to settel this. The word fude comes to mind with all that goes with it. Sad to say in this day and age most of these rights are no longer considered to be proper. Lets hope the Gov. will do something about it is the modern mindset.
     

  3. palani

    palani Well-Known Member

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    Look, the pope owns the entire earth (according to him, anyway). You are trespassing!

    For me, possession is, as it were, the position of my feet. Anyplace my feet are I am considered in possession until I move them. That possession can be considered adverse from the onset.
     
  4. hoofinitnorth

    hoofinitnorth Well-Known Member

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    If you come onto my property without a warrant or proper identification, you are trespassing and must leave. I don't care who you are - if you fail to identify yourself as a police officer, repo man, whatever, you will be asked to leave and if you refuse, you will at least be escorted off by law enforcement.

    In my state, I have the right to use deadly force to protect my family, and in some cases, my possessions (but when people actually invoke this right and shoot someone, they typically have to go to trial and that is NO FUN. Locally we had a church pastor shoot a couple of would-be robbers in his church one late night after apparently having lots of trouble. I think he got a "not guilty" finding but there were lots of questions - timing of 9-1-1 call and people shot in the back, etc.).
     
  5. Daryll in NW FLA

    Daryll in NW FLA Well-Known Member

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    I think the sign at my Locked front gate says it all. No invitation? No warrant? NO ENTERY! This means you!! -----Got it from the Claire files forum. Daryll in NW FLA
     
  6. foxtrapper

    foxtrapper Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Well guess what, you can't do whatever you want, and you never could in your entire lifetime. While you may like to pretend otherwise, some of us like to know what things are real, and what things are not.

    Your little definition of trespass is cute, but won't do you a darn bit of good in a court of law. Nor will your itty bitty incomplete out of context quote about trespass.

    Hopefully for your sake you'll never find yourself in the position to foolishly assert your "rights" as you see them. There's a lot of homeless people in my area that have tried to assert their "rights". Quite a number of them in prison as well for asserting their rights. They were the really foolish ones who thought they could play Rambo when asserting their "rights".

    And this nation was never created for freedom, read up on your history. The colonies were for empire building. The nation was for profit. The profiteers exploited the foolish with silly promises they never kept, and never intended to.
     
  7. Boleyz

    Boleyz Prognosticator, Artist

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    As I see it, you never "Own" anything of Value in America, because you must pay a Tax on it...When I pay my property tax each year, it actually goes through my mind, "Well, I've paid my rent to Uncle Sam for another year".

    You're taxed when you earn money...so the money's not yours.
    You're taxed when you spend money...so the purchase is not yours.
    You're taxed when you save money...so the interest is not yours.
    You're taxed if you buy low and sell high...so the capital gain is not yours.
    You're taxed when your parents die...so the inheritance is not yours.

    Imminent Domain laws now exist that allow local govt. to take your land for ANY kind of improvement...even if it means giving it to a private developer to make millions for himself....

    We are sheep and live at the mercy of our over-bearing govt...

    Hunt...buy a license (tax)
    Drive...buy a license (tax)
    Fish...buy a license (tax)
    Boat...buy a license (tax)
    Phone service...tax added
    Water service...tax added
    electric service...tax added
    Get some gas...tax added

    Drop a turd...pay sales tax on tissue to wipe your rump.

    Farting is still free.

    "Freedom"? Nah...not really...

    The power to tax is the power to take...we've given it all up...
     
  8. hoofinitnorth

    hoofinitnorth Well-Known Member

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    In the USA, there are only 4 government powers over your property rights:
    police power
    taxation
    escheat
    eminent domain
    But boy are they an IMPORTANT 4 with potentially tiny or HUGE impacts on your use and enjoyment of "your" property!
     
  9. logbuilder

    logbuilder Well-Known Member

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    Pondering....

    are they still homeless???????
     
  10. minnikin1

    minnikin1 Shepherd

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    In that vein, then, I could say, "to me murder is ok- Any time someone's feet are not moving off of my space."

    If you don't have to obey laws, then I don't either, right?
     
  11. palani

    palani Well-Known Member

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    minnikin1
    If it were your space the only duty you owe to a trespasser under Law is not to intentionally harm him (her). But since you are equally a trespasser, a murder more or less is not going to make your claim any stronger. If you presume that you will profit by this action I might point out that those who live by the sword inevitably perish by it.

    I take it you have gone to the courthouse and performed a title search back to the original land grant to your property. Who gave the original person to grant title to your land authority to issue that grant?

    Under the law of the State of Texas (and probably other States as well) in order to own your property all I have to do is pay taxes on it.

    http://lawdigest.uslegalforms.com/abandoned-property/index.php?dID=6762
     
  12. Boleyz

    Boleyz Prognosticator, Artist

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    I know I'm really stupid here, but the law you cite is in reference to "ABANDONED PROPERTY" and there are lots of things listed above your "Quote" that define "Abandoned Property" and ALL of them take at least 7 years, before the property is legally considered to be "Abandoned"...

    THEN, you can go pay the taxes and claim ownership. But hey! My tax bill was $962.00 this year. I already paid it, but if you want to go to the courthouse and pay my property tax next year, That'd be GREAT!!!

    Of course, the property would still be MINE, because it is obviously NOT Abandoned.

    Please, PM me next November 1st and I'll give you an address of the sheriff's office and you can mail in your check to pay my property tax.

    Thanks...that's a load off my mind...I think I'll take a NICE vacation this summer, since I'll be over $900.00 to the good next fall...
     
  13. palani

    palani Well-Known Member

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    Boleyz

    I have no interest in your property unless you have morels (morals?).

    You make a good point about the property being abandoned being a condition precedent. I was simply pointing out that, as far as any state is concerned the owner is the one who pays the taxes. That being the case your perception of the value of your piece of paper declaring you to be the sole owner is nothing more than the value of your taxes.

    I am willing to conditionally accept your offer provided you can show me that your title supercedes the popes'.
     
  14. minnikin1

    minnikin1 Shepherd

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    I despise property taxes and I agree that it ultimately means you merely "rent" your the land from the government.

    Some folks use this argument to excuse their desire to trespass.
    If I "rent" a car, does that mean you have a right to drive it?
    Even renters are allowed to lock the landlord out, for the most part.
    Again, I'm not saying I approve of property taxes, I just don't understand the
    "you don't really own it, so I can use it," mentality.

    What I was saying to palani was not that I intend to murder anyone. I was just pointing out that
    folks who choose to ignore the law of the land, can't go around expecting the protections provided by the law of the land. Eventually, others around you will say, "enough".
     
  15. Ninn

    Ninn Custom Crochet Queen

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    I dont know how property laws are supposed to work around here, but I do know this. The house I used to own sat empty for 2 years. During that time, the neighbor's house burned down and he replaced it with a modular home. According to the maps in the tax office, the property line ran thru his bedroom. His shed was completely in my yard. Guess who paid the taxes on that land? Not him, that's for sure. For 5 years, ownership of that strip of land was in question in the courts. Now the house belongs to someone else and they have the same problem. The neighbors dont even think they should have to pay rent to use that portion of the land.

    Now, I live in a trailer park. I pay a monthly fee for the use of a clearly specified amount of land. I pay extra fees for the right to garden on it and to have my dog on it. I will be paying another extra fee for the permit to install a permanent fence with concrete footers for the posts. Why? Because everybody and their brother thinks that it's ok to stroll through my yard on their way to somewhere else and kill off my grass. It's ok for their kids to harrass and tease my dog, but look out for me if she ever gets ahold of one of those brats. It's ok for their toddlers to be in my yard-"they just wanted to play on your swingset". HELLO!! Whose yard, tools, dog, swingset, garden, etc., is this anyway? As long as I pay my lot rent, it is mine. I get fined if I don't care for it as if I owned it, so you'd sure as hell better stay off of it without my permission. Even the park manager and park owner don't just walk into my yard without asking at the door first. It's called respect and it's high time people started to learn that it works both ways. You want it from me? Give it to me and mine and you'll get it back. You walk all over what's mine? Foggettaboutit.