Property line moved

Discussion in 'Homesteading Questions' started by Kygardengal, Jun 22, 2005.

  1. Kygardengal

    Kygardengal Well-Known Member

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    When I bought this property 2 yrs ago I hired a surveyor to come out and specifically tell me where the property boundaries are. I have almost 19 acres
    and I have a neighbor who lives on a 2 acre lot in front of me. There is about 15 ft. between his back line and a grove of trees. This guy has always been nice and sort of keeps an eye on things for me, which I greatly appreciate since I don't live there yet. He rides his 4 wheeler around my property and has run off a few trespassers. I noticed a few months ago that he built a shed right on our property line. Later, he pitched a screened in tent about 6ft over the property line (my side). I thought this to be a little "nervey" but I thought "what's the big deal" since I don't live there yet. This morning, I spoke to his wife and she asked me what I could do about all of the poison oak on a bunch of trees since her kids like to play there. (My side) And that they wanted to know if they could cut down one of my large trees because it is leaning and may fall on their tent. I politely told her I will do nothing about the poison oak and that she needed to keep the kids out of it. And that I definately didn't want to cut ANY trees. When I got home, there was a message that they wanted to talk to me about it. This evening, I went back over there to talk to the guy. He starts telling me that the tree line is the property line. I start looking for the corner pin in the ground to show him he is wrong and low and behold.."HE HAS MOVED THE PIN"...back about 15 feet! ! !! :grump: :grump: My blood was boiling .... :grump:
    I took a deep breath and kept my cool. I knew that it was useless to get into
    as screaming match with him. Instead, I said "Hmmm...interesting..."
    I came home and pulled out the plat. His two property lines are equal on both sides confirming that he moved the corner pin...DH thinks it is useless to "DO" anything now, and just get it re-surveyed when we are ready to fence it. He thinks we should just challenge it then. I am just so mad :grump: He obviously thinks I am that "stupid"... :grump: What would you do? Should I make an enemy here or let it go for now.
     
  2. desdawg

    desdawg Well-Known Member

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    Moving or removing surveyor pins is against the law and prosecutable here in AZ. I assume the rest of the world is similar.
     

  3. Kygardengal

    Kygardengal Well-Known Member

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    Right...But he would never admit he did and would just say that the pin has been there all along...There is no way to prove that "HE" is the one who moved it. Although, no one else could possibly benefit from the move except him as I surround him on the right as well as behind him..That is the corner he moved.
     
  4. Orville

    Orville Well-Known Member

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    I would talk to the surveyor who first set or showed the pins to you. In all of this, keep in mind that these folks may be your neighbors for a long time, so it would be in your best interests to create as little hard feelings as possible. You were wise to refrain from reacting out of anger.
     
  5. sisterpine

    sisterpine Goshen Farm Supporter

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    Thanks for the giggle! I needed one tonight. It seems our property line is always getting moved by the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT! Yup the good old united states forest service keeps putting their bright orange marked "forest service boundry" on our land. Have been doing this for over 15 years! I keep moving them back to the spot they came from! What can I say...if I ever win the lotto I will get a new survey and make the USFS walk witht the surveyer. Prop last surveyed in the 70's and I know where all the permanant brass corner markers are and they were placed by the USGS and they are supposed to know what they are doing...hmmm...does make one wonder though huh.
     
  6. rambler

    rambler Well-Known Member Supporter

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    'Squatters rights' kick in in most states between 5-20 years time. That started whenever they started using your property - was that a couple years ago???? I would not wait very long on this issue......

    It is a dfficult situation, you are correct to move slowly & calmly. But do move on it, leaving it unchallenged for a while can hurt you down the road....

    Assuming your survey was pretty recient, talk to that company, they should have notes & such that can make shorter work of determining the correct placement of the pins.....

    Good luck with it.

    We had the county steal 20 feet from one property line too. Not much to do about it. Dad pointed to where the pin should be, their metal detector went off within 2 feet. They said can't dig up the road (it was under the tar) as who knows what we would find anyhow. Next day tar grinder took off the surface and a bulldozer worked over that area. Roadbed was supposed to follow the property line, all right-of-way 100% on our property in the '50s. Road builder said he couldn't make the curve on the end, so moved the roadbed during construction, never was well recorded. Surveyer (same company that county hires, had the metal detector) had fire & lost records. So, they go from middle of road & that should be good...... Forced them to measure from corner stones, they allowed 8' per 100 for uneven ground on our side, allowed 0' for uneven on the other side, and somehow that wrked out just great for them.... Doh.

    --->Paul
     
  7. Don Armstrong

    Don Armstrong In Remembrance

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    The sooner you call him - or them - on it the easier it will be to resolve. If positions - geographically and personally - get entrenched then it will be harder for people to back off. Maybe take a look at county records to ensure that their property map agrees with yours first.

    Then I'd take a copy of your map (maybe original as well, but don't let go of your original), and go and talk to them about it. Explain that the survey mark was placed/confirmed there when you had the place surveyed two years ago, that someone has moved it, and that since moving survey marks is a crime you want to get things sorted out without having to do anything official. If your neighbour is in fact a couple then one of them may be acting without the other's knowledge, may not know what sort of crime they're involved in (although stealing land is still stealing), and may be prepared to back off when you spell things out to them. Note that I didn't say accuse anyone. Approach it as just getting some cards on the table to get a problem sorted out before it grows to a bigger problem.

    Wouldn't surprise me if they were told when they bought the property "up to that row of trees", and they just thought moving the marks was correcting an error. They probably thought "no big deal - just set it right".
     
  8. johnghagen

    johnghagen Well-Known Member

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    :) Everyone should dig down around rop to a depth of 12 inches and pour concrete.Stake wont move then and solves a lot of problems
     
  9. Nax

    Nax Well-Known Member

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    As per my father's advice, the day after I closed on my property, I took old pipe and walked the property line, pounding in the pipe on my side of the property line at every pin (it's a dog legged piece of property). I spray paint them orange or red, and make sure they are always in place.

    Ironically, the day I was doing it my only neighbors, the ones I share three points of my property line with, came and questioned what I was doing. I explained. They were very surprised. The wife was pretty mad because the guy who sold me the property had promised to sell it to them "when they had the money." The husband was fatalisitic about it. But, we all know where the line is, even though they ignore it and behave as if they own the land. When their kids began camping on my property, I politely told them they couldn't and asked them to move their stuff. [More a fear of lawsuits than anything--you know how it goes these days.]
     
  10. Mike in Ohio

    Mike in Ohio Well-Known Member

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    I've paid a total of $6k for surveys on the various parcels we've bought. The best thing to do is to take pictures of the pins and posts (from different angles) immediately following the survey (preferably when the surveyor is there and get them to pose in the picture. This will avoid or minimize a lot of arguments.

    Mike
     
  11. via media

    via media Tub-thumper

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    I agree with rambler's advice - don't wait, because what is yours can become theirs after a certain period of time.

    It's always a good idea to walk your property line every so often to nip these kinds of things in the bud, especially since he is building dangerously close to the property line.

    /VM
     
  12. Kygardengal

    Kygardengal Well-Known Member

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    Well, I didn't sleep well last night. Just so aggravated with this issue.
    I had the surveyor out when I bought the place because their was a question of where the property line was on the other side. So this guy was standing there
    with us when the guy showed me where the corner pin was. We even all discussed together that this corner would be a good place to run the driveway.
    He was well aware and agreed to where it was on that day. Now he must think
    that I am stupid or something and that I don't remember it. His wife tells me that 1/2 of their garden is on the other neighbors side. That the guy doesn't even know where the line is. He seems to think that it is ok to just spread out over the lines. How convenient to pay for 2 acres and have use of all of the surrounding property. According to the plat, one side of his property is 470.23 ft and the other side is 473.78 ft. It is just a matter of pulling a tape from the front by the driveway to the pin. I am thinking of taking the plat with me and pulling the tape right in front of him. This would strain a neighborly relationship
    when he ends up "red-faced". If I call in the surveyor then the surveyor is the one to actually "call him" on it. Which is better? I'll call the surveyor this morning and let you guys know what he says. Keep telling me what you would
    do in this situation.
     
  13. Snowdancer

    Snowdancer Well-Known Member

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    When we lived in KY the neighbor did the same thing except he didn't ask before cutting down the fences! If you look deep in the ground there's a steel pin with the surveyors number & name(at least there was on ours) that usually coincides with the above ground pin/flag.

    If you know where the original pin was you might check for it. I happened to know exactly where it was since the fence was up in the morning! I came home later that day and all of my boundary fence was down and lo & behold the above ground stake/flag was 10' in towards my pastures. The surveyor told me a metal detector will usually pick up where the pin is located if this ever happened again and I couldn't remember the exact location.

    I did call the surveyor and he came out since the guy wouldn't believe the deep in ground pin was correct! :rolleyes: The surveyor charged me $150 and repinned all the lines of the property-not bad IMO to walk through poison ivy & blackberry bramble.

    I called the police since the neighbor threatened to take out any new fence Again if I put it back up! This was after the surveyor had now twice pinned the same marks and they were the exact same ones that was on the neighbors deed(we both happened to use the same surveyor 2yrs apart)! And he had 110 acres & we had 40 on a separate road entrance so it wasn't even over access!

    Some people will risk a fine just to gain 10'! :no:

    Good Luck!
    Kathy
     
  14. skruzich

    skruzich Well-Known Member

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    You are in a bad pickle. No matter what you do your going to have problems in the future with the neighbor. If they did move the pin, they will be mad that they were caught, and if they didn't they will be mad at you cause they will think your accusing htem.
    Now the simple solution that i have thought of is that you can have the surveyor back out to resurvey that line, and say something to the neighbors ahead of time that your getting a loan on the property and the bank requires a survey. Once you get the lines surveyed, dig a hole where the pin is to go with a post hole digger, get one of those 6" pieces of cardboard tubes that will build a piling and set in the top of the hole, and fill it with concrete and a pin in the center. That will be a official marker and permanent. It will take a backhoe to get it out of the ground.
    if your line has pins between corners of property, do the same thing there. That will fix any future problems you might have.
     
  15. edcopp

    edcopp Well-Known Member

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    Our last property line dispute ended up in court. The court and the others agreed that it would be a good idea to re survey. I suggested placing a pin near where the dispute was, and everybody agreed. We also agreed that the party who was wrong would pay the surveyor. The cost was $900. The neighbor paid with a check from his insurance company that had a memo on it, Lightning Damage.

    And the cost of insurance just keeps going up, some folks just can't tell the truth ever for any reason. :grump:
     
  16. Kygardengal

    Kygardengal Well-Known Member

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    You know what really "urkes" me about this? It is the fact that we have given this person "permission" to use our property for their pleasure (four-wheelers,
    hunting, hiking, picincing down by the creek). Their kid's trampoline is on my side.All I've asked is that they kind of keep an eye on the place in my absence.
    It's basically "empty" for God's sake....how hard can it be?? :grump:
    I am waiting to hear back from the surveyer. I wish I could just fence it but I just don't have that kind of money right now. You just can't be nice to some people. There is always someone out there trying to screw you. :grump:
    Sorry, even though I have slept on it, I'm still "pi**ed". :grump:

    I like the idea about the concrete post....That I will do.....
     
  17. twstanley

    twstanley Well-Known Member

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    I think you are right to have it resurveyed, then I suggest you put a fence across, even if it is just t posts 50 feet apart and a couple strands of high tension wire. Some sort of physical barrier to remind these folks where the line is between theirs and yours.
     
  18. Snowdancer

    Snowdancer Well-Known Member

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    Kygardengal, what county are you in? Seems that some counties handle these issues better than others.
    Unfortunately, we were in Metcalfe and found we couldn't get much done since everyone was related to one of the big wigs who ruled with a 'family first' set of values even when it involved illegal activities/actions! :rolleyes:

    Also, it isn't too expensive to run a couple of strands of horse wire at the boundary once it's re-marked, better would be a couple of strands of barb but smooth is easier to work with IMO. ;)

    I'm sorry this is happening to you too, unfortunately that kind of mindset was one of many reasons why I left KY.
    It was too bad too, the land is absolutely gorgeous there but I just couldn't control the property I owned as far as keeping tresspassers, theives and inconsiderate people from treating my place as their personal playground. :no:
    The few really good neighbors I had all ended up moving too-the last one moved away a month ago! That would be 8 families, some having lived there for 8+yrs(and these were Kentuckians not 'outsiders)who left within the 6 yrs I was there! I guess it only takes a few years of having your place continually abused and your hard work destroyed to realize your fighting a losing battle! I hope the new people fare better than any of us did! :grump:

    Let us know what happens
    Kathy
     
  19. crashy

    crashy chickaholic goddess

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    Well I would worry about the squatters rights thing...if you can get it remarked then go get metal fence posts and pound them in on YOUR side like 6-8in. in to be safe just run string through the fence to 'condition' the neighbors. I would also concrete then in those are a royal pain to move or cover up.
    When we put up our fence we had the neighbor look where we had the line we used pink string and showed exactly where we wanted it. Told her if she had any problems with it let us know. We waited for like a week so she was good and sure it was ok.
    All of us went to the corners and looked at the survey markers just to make sure everything was ok. We wanted NO angry neighbors to this day we are still happy neighbors.
    Sorry you have to go through that I hope you all can peacefully work out the line. That can be really touchy.
    If you do get it remarked have the neighbor there as well so there is NO question where the line is some folks get really spread out and they need to be reminded where they must keep their stuff. :soap:
     
  20. Topaz Farm

    Topaz Farm Well-Known Member

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    I like the idea of telling the guy the bank wants a survey for a loan. Also a permament marker.

    We are going to have to have a surveyor come and find two of our markers. When we put up a fence we are going to put it 4" in our side because of a p*ssy neighbor. But the good thing, we will have our fence and they will have their fence.

    EDITED TO ADD:

    To keep things half way nice, you could ask him if there have been any *strangers* hanging around, because they must have messed with the marker.