Presa Canario Guarding dogs

Discussion in 'Guard Animals' started by CelestielAcres, Sep 28, 2016.

  1. CelestielAcres

    CelestielAcres CelestielPrairieAcres Supporter

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    So I have LGDs on my property (raised from pups) for fowl, sheep, cattle, horses( I don't think the cattle, horses need guarding but yeah) however I am interested in a Presa for the house plus farm protection. ( I just want a well rounded dog that can come out on farm chores with me and not cause issues.)

    Anyone own one of these dogs and live in farm country. My Pry's will get along with anything I introduce them too, they have proven this. (I do foster dogs for a no kill resucue on occasion) Finding a breeder within a decent distance is proving difficult.

    I will drive a good distance to get the "right" dog, my main concern is to find a reputable breeder. I want a healthy dog that will hopefully live with me for quite a many years.
     
  2. wiscto

    wiscto Well-Known Member

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    Seems a bit risky based on what I read, especially since they're rare and you'll probably be shelling out some serious cash. Is that the only breed you're looking at?
     
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  3. CountryMom22

    CountryMom22 Well-Known Member

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    If you are looking for a long lived dog, this isn't the breed. The larger the dog the shorter the lifespan. Plus I would think the price would be high as they aren't easy to find.
     
  4. CelestielAcres

    CelestielAcres CelestielPrairieAcres Supporter

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    Their lifespan is similar to GPs. No, not long lived, but it is what it is for a large breed dog. I am not fearful of the high price I am just having a hard time finding breeders anywhere near me of that breed for family/all around dogs. The bulk of what I am finding breeders wise are breeders that sell to celebrities etc for personal protection. To clarify, I had a foster Presa that was a wonderful addition to my farm/household. He had been hit by a car and when he went in for amputation of a leg he bled out and didn't make it. He was the ideal showman for how a Presa should be socialized with people and other animals. I miss him and would like to bring in another one but as a permanent family member. Just curious if anyone else has experience with them as they are a "mastiff."
     
  5. motdaugrnds

    motdaugrnds II Corinthians 5:7

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    WOW Those dogs are huge and very powerful looking! Their look alone would deter most 2-legged intruders. I like what I've read about them and wouldn't hesitate to bring one onto my place to mingle with my 2 dogs (Karakachan and Labrador), goats and assorted fowl. Getting it as a puppy seems a must with a dog like this because I would sure not like to have to teach it of my alpha position were it in its adolescents!

    Do let us know when you get one and run a thread on how it does at your place. I find those canines quite interesting!
     
  6. CelestielAcres

    CelestielAcres CelestielPrairieAcres Supporter

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    Yes, I do think a puppy is a must with the farm, children and other dogs/pets. I imagine that I "could" find a rescue dog that needs a home but it takes months + to really learn an adult dogs behaviors/tiggers. I would feel safer getting a pup that I put the energy in to train/raise.

    I will keep you posted, I have found a few breeders within day driving distance hours from us. I plan to go visit and meet the parent stock before deciding which breeder to obtain a pup from.
     
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  7. CelestielAcres

    CelestielAcres CelestielPrairieAcres Supporter

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    Well I have been researching breeders still at this point. Amazing how quality breeders can be so hard to find (especially when you have an ear on the rescue side of it). Found a few that I am still reviewing and researching. In the meantime I have been fostering Presa Canario's for a rescue group that is breed specific that just happens to be more local to me (local to me is an hour away, we are in the boonies!)

    This is Gracie, she is only two and is slowly learning that people are a positive thing in her life that she actually wants to have around. She was likely a breeder female dog in a kennel out back....dumped after pups were weaned. For dogs that are quite costly they are apparently thrown away as often as the next breed. I am not surprised by this but it still makes me sad.
     

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  8. Maura

    Maura Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It’s too bad they cut her ears off. Are you going to keep her?
     
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  9. CelestielAcres

    CelestielAcres CelestielPrairieAcres Supporter

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    I may, I would honestly prefer a female dog (my last Presa foster was male.) It generally takes a week or more to really see the dogs personality come out so I won't know until then whether or not she is even a possibility to continue to stay on the farm. She has only been with me for 4 or so days at this point.

    Cropped ears are the breed standard. Most dogs of this breed are cropped, some of them aren't done well.
     
  10. Maura

    Maura Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The breeder doesn’t cut the ears, the new owner does. So, if you get a puppy, you can leave the ears. They are necessary for communication, and with a dog that size it’s something good to have.

    For aggression, I give it two weeks. I hope she turns out good for you.
     
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  11. CelestielAcres

    CelestielAcres CelestielPrairieAcres Supporter

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    Breed standards are what they are. I don't "like" ear cropping but most quality breeders will have that done and ears posted when they are picked up at 8 weeks or so (it is included in their 1500-4k price). You could request that the dog isn't cropped and maybe that is an option if you never intend to show or breed etc. To each their own. Lots of breeds have a standard of cropped ears. Backyard cropping is very different from a quality vet.

    Aggression wasn't my worry, prey drive was and those are two very different things. That said she won't be a permanent placement on my farm. She won't serve the purpose that I want. I doubt without months of working with her that I could get her comfy with the life outside on the farm. Even the chickens scare her. She will find the right home to one who can focus on just her.
     
  12. gracielagata

    gracielagata Well-Known Member

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    I don't usually comment without knowing enough about the OP's question... but....

    Are there breeders of Presas in the US that breed them for livestock guarding?
    In every instance I have ever heard of them in the states, they were property guarders (junk yard type thing) or fighting dogs. I believe they are also used for things like this in foreign countries as well.

    I actually also have a family member who breeds/bred them. I was around at their house a couple of times, and the member of the family breeding them wouldn't even let the dogs near humans visiting. But these likely came from the stock of that other distant relative who was in fact breeding them for fighting and protection of his drug paraphernalia/home.
    If that made sense lol.

    There have been quite a few instances of them attacking and killing humans. My guess is that this information/history could possibly cause issues with insurance as well?

    Anyhoo. :)
     
  13. Morledzep

    Morledzep Active Member

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    I know a Presa Canario breeder in MO. She's good, and her dogs are EXPENSIVE. But they aren't livestock guardians, and they aren't generally dog friendly even with others from their own breed. They are GUARD dogs, they are NOT livestock guardians.

    If you think you're still interested I'll talk to her about giving you her contact information. :icecream:
     
  14. CelestielAcres

    CelestielAcres CelestielPrairieAcres Supporter

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    No, as of yet I haven't found a breeder utilizing them as a LGD. That isn't what I am looking for in this breed. I have found a breeder that I am considering from, out of state (pups run about 2500 but I also have some rescue pups avail to me at 800 each.) The rescue pups dam and sire temps aren't as accurate so I hesitate on them.

    Generally this breed is used for high dollar personal protection, family dogs or compete in bite work/weight pulling. Bite stats on this breed aren't that high, what you see in the media is where the dogs did fatal or almost fatal damage. The most notorious case was a San Fran case where the dogs attacked a neighbor lady and killed her, that was a decade ago and if you read deeper into the case...well it is definitely a bizarre case. Un-socialized dogs can be dangerous (of any breed) and this is a breed that must be socialized to people and other pets ASAP! Heck there was a highly public case not to long ago of an Anatolian attack on his owner. Powerful breeds must be trained as needed from the get go.

    BSL is based on issues that arise with certain breeds but Dobermans, most bully breeds, GSDs, many Mastiff breeds etc are also included so BSL (insurance/country ordinances) isn't specific to this breed in that regards.
     
  15. CelestielAcres

    CelestielAcres CelestielPrairieAcres Supporter

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    Thanks. Preas are costly to buy regardless. I am not interested in a dog from a breeder who doesn't socialize (they can be great with other dogs). I already stated, this dog isn't to be a LGD. I am looking to have a pup that can go about the farm with me and but will bark at intruders while being a house dog and get along with my other dogs on the farm (LGDs.)
     
  16. Morledzep

    Morledzep Active Member

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    I did not say that the breeder doesn't socialize the puppies, not only does she breed and show them, she also trains them (and other dogs). And she does NOT sell her dogs to just anybody, she is very careful about who gets her dogs and why they want them.
     
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  17. gracielagata

    gracielagata Well-Known Member

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    I just reread your original post, and I think I slightly went a different way with the idea of being a livestock guardian or not. To the effect that I wondered if a non-LGD would be okay in the circumstances you want- a dog who can walk around with you and be safe for the animals. :) One of our dogs cannot be trusted with the chickens (she has killed 2; one flew the fence landing in her mouth, the other she snuck in the windblown gate and grabbed one before I ever knew what was happening), and at times has to be retaught that the horses are not for chasing. That is where my mindset went. Sorry about that. :)

    I did read about the SF case, too. Large dogs capable of so much damage are downright scary when not properly trained and socialized, aren't they?

    Anyhoo...
     
  18. CelestielAcres

    CelestielAcres CelestielPrairieAcres Supporter

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    I didn't mean to be offensive in any way, if I came across the way I apologize I may have after a long day. Yes, they, any large breed can be scary!!

    I will honestly say when I speak of this breed to most who even know the name, the response is worse than saying I own a pitbull. I don't remember finding any specific breeders in MO but there are 4 just an hour from me that I would not buy a dog from, ever! Google is sometimes not our friend for giving us all options. I know many will overstate things to encourage ignorance. I get protective of a breed I see being discriminated against because there are SO many crappy owners!

    I originally NEVER thought this of this breed as a family member. I had never researched the breed just heard the name (and then my no-kill rescue group asked me to take on a dog). I am on foster number 3 of this breed (for a breed specific rescue in KS). Two of whom have been completely unsocialized, the most recent is scared to death of the chickens even (who free range along her fence).

    I actually made a commitment yesterday to an 8 week old Presa puppy through Presa Pride Rescue and Rehab here in KS. She should join our family next week! Very excited!
     
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  19. CelestielAcres

    CelestielAcres CelestielPrairieAcres Supporter

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  20. gracielagata

    gracielagata Well-Known Member

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    You didn't at all, no worries! :) And same here if you got something incorrect out of my statements.
    An 8week old from a rescue at such a tender young age?! What the heck happened already in its tender life?

    As for discouraging ownership of such a strong dog, yep, I think I was partially going that route as well. You didn't mention in your OP that you are fairly familiar with them, or my brain would have gone differently. :)
    And yes, for me personally a Presa will/would strike more immediate 'oh no' in my mind than a pit bull any day. There are fewer of them, with less knowledge available, and like pit bull owners in some places, they are owned for their giant, man eating, cool factor. Not cool. Like you mention with the crappy owners- that is where my mind was as well. :)

    There is a short list of breeds I would LOVE to own. (Doberman, rotty, various mastiffs). But I never will because I don't want the liability should something ever happen, as dogs of that nature will likely more quickly be considered in the wrong. Plus I have a hard time spending $$$ on a purebred with no need for its specificity in my life, when I can go to the pound and get a puppy of what grows up to be a hopefully decent size and be good. :) Our younger dog is a mixed breed we got off CL (no puppies at shelters then, and had to have a puppy bc of our older dog) at 9 weeks of age. Around the same time my parents bought a fairly costly purebred German Shepherd puppy. Other than innate guarding ability by the GP, they are equal in nearly every way, and our boy is less manic/nervous as he isn't living the life of a house dog instead of doing what he was bred to do.
    Just to give a better background for my thoughts. :)