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Seriously.

This is a topic I would have bowed out of, as I really don’t care that much, until I saw a couple posters suggesting we round up an entire class of people and inter them, FDR-Japanese(American) style, and one even suggest that we use those who chose to leave that interment to test the tensile strength of rope.

You can try to cast my view however you like, but my position is always, consistently, one stake: we are Americans, we’re better than everyone else, and sometimes the Liberty that our forefathers shed blood for, to gift this heathen world with, comes with inconveniences.

One of us suggested re-committing FDR’s most shameful sin.
The other one is me.
I’m good with that.
Glad I’m not the one that ever suggested we round up an entire class of people and inter them fdr style. I recommend treatment facilities to care for our less fortunate citizens who may end up dying in our streets.
 

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How about the woman who flees her home because she's fleeing domestic violence. She has no support system because abusers tend to isolate their victims. She has no money because he controls the money. Which one is she in your opinion -- junkie, drunk or bum looking for a free ride?

How about the teenager who was thrown out of the house for coming out? Which one is that kid in your opinion -- junkie, drunk or bum looking for a free ride?

How about the family that loses the main breadwinner? They were struggling to pay the bills and, with the loss of the major breadwinner, now they can't. Junkies, drunks or bums looking for a free ride in your opinion?

How about the man who suffers a disabling accident and can no longer work? SSI disability takes months to get an answer and often that answer is "no" requiring an appeal that takes more months. Is he a junkie, drunk or bum looking for a free ride?
If there weren't a system overwhelming amount of drunks, junkies and bums, there would be plenty of resources to help those that truly need and want help.

The homeless I know want to stay on the streets. They prefer it.

Not a viable option if you are pissing and dumping on the street, or leaving needles in the public park play area.
 

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If there weren't a system overwhelming amount of drunks, junkies and bums, there would be plenty of resources to help those that truly need and want help.

The homeless I know want to stay on the streets. They prefer it.

Not a viable option if you are pissing and dumping on the street, or leaving needles in the public park play area.
The thieves I’ve met want to remain free too. We can’t always have what we want.
 

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One of us suggested re-committing FDR’s most shameful sin.
The other one is me.
I’m good with that.
You doubled down on your @Nevada ness. I never suggested such a a thing. Actually it is impossible to even compare the two things.
 

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How about the woman who flees her home because she's fleeing domestic violence. She has no support system because abusers tend to isolate their victims. She has no money because he controls the money. Which one is she in your opinion -- junkie, drunk or bum looking for a free ride?

How about the teenager who was thrown out of the house for coming out? Which one is that kid in your opinion -- junkie, drunk or bum looking for a free ride?

How about the family that loses the main breadwinner? They were struggling to pay the bills and, with the loss of the major breadwinner, now they can't. Junkies, drunks or bums looking for a free ride in your opinion?

How about the man who suffers a disabling accident and can no longer work? SSI disability takes months to get an answer and often that answer is "no" requiring an appeal that takes more months. Is he a junkie, drunk or bum looking for a free ride?
The woman fleeing violence can pick up the phone and call 911, they will direct her to a battered woman's shelter. Everyone else on your list should be glad there would be a place to go. A camp where they could stay till they can get on their feet. Of course they would have to refrain from booze, and illegal drugs while staying there. I often encountered these people when I was a Deputy, and the majority of them are self medicating and won't go to a shelter because the shelters have these terrible things called rules.

Everyone on your list would benefit from a camp, where they would have shelter, food, and medical care. Or they could just stay on the street, and slowly starve to death.
 

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This is making it really difficult to have an honest discussion, and this same discourse appears to be what is taking place at the macro level, and why we’ll never get to any workable solution.

The vast, vast majority of the homeless are junkies, drunks, and bums; no doubt. The vast majority of the slim minority who don’t fall into one of those those categories do qualify for some sort of assistance (as do the majority of the junkies, drunks, and bums, actually), but, even with all of those folks taken out of the mix, there are still some who don’t fit.

Out of every few thousand of the JDBLs (junkies, drunks, bums, and lazy folk) there are a handful of wrecked combat vets who may qualify for assistance, but can’t bring themselves to trust anyone in power to give them assistance. At least one or two out of every several-thousand JDBLs is someone who just wants to live like that. Then there’s the examples we’d never even think of until we met them, and probably have our world-view checked at the same time. These aren’t the people we’re worried about. They don’t take drugs, would never steal, and have too much shame to defecate where a playing child might get into it.

It’s of incredible importance, in my opinion, to avoid sweeping these folks up with the JDBLs. We’re American and we’re better than that. We don’t punish the innocent out of convenience or intellectual laziness. Willingly doing so will strip us of our Americanness.

I look at it the same way I do the civil-disarmament movement (ie. “Gun Control”). The vast majority of gun owners will never hurt anyone, yet the civil-disarmament movement predicates on punishing the lawful for the acts of the criminal. Disarming Bob the plumber does no good to protect us from Joe the drug runner. It’s not supposed to. For every Joe, there’s a thousand Bobs. It’s really just a push to disarm Bob.

Even when I transpose the ratios of JDBLs to eccentrics that we see in the homeless, I still end up at the same place. If the vast, vast majority of gun owners were violent criminals, I still can’t find the logic in disarming Bob. That’s not the American way, no matter the ratio of good-guys to bad-guys. We punish the bad, and protect the Liberty of the good. That’s what we do, lest we cease to be who we are.

Dealing with the homelessness crisis should be simple, if not a fair bit of work. Unfortunately, the politics and side-choosing gets in the way, but we have a workable formula for this.

See a smelly homeless person pooping on the sidewalk: make them clean it up, put them in cuffs and take them to a very uncomfortable jail.

See a smelly homeless person pooping on the sidewalk and, in the process of arresting them, discover that they’re crazy, get them to a mental health treatment center.

See a smelly homeless person shooting up heroin, arrest them and get them into treatment. See them do it again, and let them detox the hard way in jail.

See a smelly homeless person rough up a woman or child; throw them in the clink, and make sure their cell mates know why they’re there.

See a smelly homeless person minding their own business; smile and wave, or don’t. Maybe offer to buy them a sandwich.

I agree, but we can't know who is who until we begin sorting them out. If someone like the old vet, or just someone who want's to live on their own isn't harming anyone, or causing a health hazard. I would suggest just leave them alone. They would be more of a traveler, than a homeless junkie.

In any kind of large scale attempt at a solution, there will be a few harmless people swept up with the herd. Give them a meal, a free medical check up, refill their legal medications, and let them go on their way. There will always be a few who don't fit in, and roam the world at will.
 

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A hobo is a homeless vagrant, especially one who is impoverished. The term originated in the United States during the 19th century.
Unlike a "tramp", who works only when forced to, and a "bum", who does not work at all, a "hobo" is a traveling worker.
 

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A hobo is a homeless vagrant, especially one who is impoverished. The term originated in the United States during the 19th century.
Unlike a "tramp", who works only when forced to, and a "bum", who does not work at all, a "hobo" is a traveling worker.
I lived and worked all over the western states until I was thirty two years old. I lived out of an old International Travelall, and moved with the seasons. I was homeless, in the traditional sense. Because I didn't have any huge debt I traveled the world and worked many different jobs. I would park that old truck at a friends house for months at a time, and work overseas. I was homeless, but not a burden, and I loved it. So I understand the feeling of freedom people have, and want to maintain.

But, living in a tent on the sidewalk, shooting up your drug of choice, and crapping in the street isn't freedom. It is a very slow form of suicide, and it trashes up the neighbor hood. Having a wide range of services, free clinic, homeless shelters, job services, ect. Spread over a huge area isn't practical, for someone without transportation. If they are living in a homeless camp without services, and no good way to get around. Then a camp with all of the services in one place, with running water and flush toilets makes sense. Of course it ain't McDonalds and you won't get everything your way. Tough crap, life is a *****, deal with it.
 

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Again with the “camps” nonsense”. Try rehab center. Or mental health care facility, maybe even educational therapy facility. Pick any label you like for a centrally Located facility that provides the needed care and training required to enable the homeless a better life than living on our streets.
Who is going to pay for all this, who is going to pay for their treatment?
 

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Is a hospital an internment camp?
is a rehab center an internment camp?
is an elementary school an internment camp?
is a prison an internment camp?
You leave a hospital after treatment, you go to school then go home at end of the day, You go to a rehab denter voluntarily and can leave if you want, a prison is a prison.

You are being absurd
 

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You leave a hospital after treatment, you go to school then go home at end of the day, You go to a rehab denter voluntarily and can leave if you want, a prison is a prison.

You are being absurd
I might be, but deep down you know I’m correct. Centralized care facilities are not enternment camps.
 

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I lived and worked all over the western states until I was thirty two years old. I lived out of an old International Travelall, and moved with the seasons. I was homeless, in the traditional sense. Because I didn't have any huge debt I traveled the world and worked many different jobs. I would park that old truck at a friends house for months at a time, and work overseas. I was homeless, but not a burden, and I loved it. So I understand the feeling of freedom people have, and want to maintain.

But, living in a tent on the sidewalk, shooting up your drug of choice, and crapping in the street isn't freedom. It is a very slow form of suicide, and it trashes up the neighbor hood. Having a wide range of services, free clinic, homeless shelters, job services, ect. Spread over a huge area isn't practical, for someone without transportation. If they are living in a homeless camp without services, and no good way to get around. Then a camp with all of the services in one place, with running water and flush toilets makes sense. Of course it ain't McDonalds and you won't get everything your way. Tough crap, life is a *, deal with it.
The generation before me still considered hobo's differently that the guy folded up in a doorway with his heel in a pile of feces.
Of course my mother came from a time when one could set a hot pie on the window sill and expect a traveler passing thru to carry a wood pile inside or clean out the gutters for his supper. Today? Yeah boy....
 

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You doubled down on your @Nevada ness. I never suggested such a a thing. Actually it is impossible to even compare the two things.
But that’s exactly what you did; “compared the two things”. You showed a picture of a homeless encampment (which we don’t know was breaking any laws, to be honest), and a picture of one of FDR’s interment camps for Americans of Japanese origin/descent, and said “one looks better than the other”. So, whether you were overtly saying that we should put the homeless in interment camps or not, you did say clearly that you found one more palatable than the other.
 

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I agree, but we can't know who is who until we begin sorting them out. If someone like the old vet, or just someone who want's to live on their own isn't harming anyone, or causing a health hazard. I would suggest just leave them alone. They would be more of a traveler, than a homeless junkie.

In any kind of large scale attempt at a solution, there will be a few harmless people swept up with the herd. Give them a meal, a free medical check up, refill their legal medications, and let them go on their way. There will always be a few who don't fit in, and roam the world at will.
I can respect that, but that’s a keystone of the American Liberty. We don’t (or shouldn’t) detain people until they can prove they’ve done nothing wrong.

That’s why I likened it to the civil-disarmament movement. There are those who think it’s not only acceptable, but right even, to make you prove your need and right to bear arms to protect yourself. They’re steadily moving the perceived window of what Liberty truly is in order to make that OK.

My answer to sweeping them up and sorting them out would take exactly the same approach: arrest them when they break the law, but smile and wave until they do. If an encampment is set up in a place where simply being there is against the law, then round them all up and sort them out.

But, if their being there isn’t against the law (which it is not in a lot of these places- a topic for a whole separate debate) then how can we sweep them all up? The rule-of-law approach is to watch them closely, police them heavily, and, when one is caught pooping/snorting/harassing or doing any of the other things that encroach on another’s Liberty, then we arrest them, and sort them out.

If we expect our neighbors to respect the rule of law, we have to respect it ourselves.
 

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But that’s exactly what you did; “compared the two things”. You showed a picture of a homeless encampment (which we don’t know was breaking any laws, to be honest), and a picture of one of FDR’s interment camps for Americans of Japanese origin/descent, and said “one looks better than the other”. So, whether you were overtly saying that we should put the homeless in interment camps or not, you did say clearly that you found one more palatable than the other.
I guess the idea of a picture being worth a thousand words is really 2,000 words, the ones you got, and the ones I meant.

PS - I think it is established fact the homeless tent cities are breaking laws. From August 2, 2016 - They tried to legalize it, but Portland Mayor Charlie Hales on Tuesday announced the end of pilot program that allowed homeless people to sleep on the streets undisturbed by law enforcement, saying it created confusion because some believed it legalized public camping, but defended his overall approach.
 

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The rule-of-law approach is to watch them closely, police them heavily, and, when one is caught pooping/snorting/harassing or doing any of the other things that encroach on another’s Liberty, then we arrest them, and sort them out.
In a perfect world this is how it would be done. As it is right now, these encampments are often cleared on a regular basis, the police along with garbage trucks simply clear the area throwing away everything and leaving the homeless with even less. This is just stupid, but then again most kneejerk reactions are. This problem will never be really solved, they will continue to throw millions of dollars at it, and hope something sticks.
 

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Well, if the government won't solve it, maybe the locals will (or maybe it's a self-correcting problem):

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Homeless encampments account for 54% of fires in Los Angeles

As the homeless crisis in Los Angeles continues to surge, the city is facing a growing number of fires at encampments, according to reports Wednesday.

Fires related to homelessness have nearly tripled in the three years since the Los Angeles Fire Department started classifying them, LAFD officials said.

In the first quarter of 2021, they occurred at a rate of 24 a day, and made up 54% of all blazes the department responded to, the Los Angeles Times reported.

The increase in fires comes as the number of tents, makeshift shelters, and campers in Los Angeles has also surged. With more tents, comes more heaters and propane tanks used for cooking, FOX 11 of Los Angeles reported.

Armando Hogan, the deputy chief for operations of the LAFD's West Bureau, questioned the root cause for the growing number of fires.

"Is it a simple matter of these folks just need a place to go and eat? Is it a bigger matter of individuals having problems with each other in the encampments? Is it just a warming issue?" he said.

However, not all fires are accidental.

On May 3, a video showed someone throwing something into a tent at the Venice Beach boardwalk, before it becomes engulfed in flames.


At least seven homeless people died in fires in 2020. Fires ignited near businesses have also caused tens of millions of dollars in damage, according to the Los Angeles Times.

Link

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But it's not just Los Angeles. Other cities with large homeless populations are seeing the same problem:

Link
 
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