Homesteading Forum banner

241 - 260 of 282 Posts

·
Don't let "good enough" be the enemy of perfect.
Joined
·
1,398 Posts
Well, Austin, TX (A.K.A. "California East") became woke and rescinded laws that prohibited homeless camping on sidewalks.

Now they have become "re-woke", or asleep, or whatever follows the rude awakening of reality that follows after being "woke":

Austin reinstates camping ban

---------------------------
Austin voters have approved Proposition B, which aims to reinstate the public camping ban that was reversed in July 2019. The results were 57% to 43%, with the majority voting to approve the proposition.

The camping ban makes it illegal to camp in any public area not designated by the Parks and Recreation Department; to sit or lie on a public sidewalk or sleep outdoors in and near the downtown area and the area around the University of Texas campus; and to panhandle at specific hours and locations.

----------------------------
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,600 Posts
Folks are proposing herding a specific group of people into one location and not letting them leave. Sure sounds like an internment camp.

I never said anything about not letting them leave. If they choose to try to live on public sidewalks or parks etc.they get shipped back to the encampment. It would be better then putting them in jail.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,319 Posts
When you propose forcing people into camps against their will you should hang your head in shame. If they freely choose to go there, that's one thing but forcing them there and holding them there against their will is wrong.
Ok, then put them in jail for criminal trespass, illegal drug possession, and creating a public health hazard. Have them declared a hazard to themselves and others, and lock them up. Then make it a condition of their sentence that they stay in a camp, until the are clean and sober, or find work. The majority of homeless don't go to public shelters because they are not allowed to commit crimes while in a shelter.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,319 Posts
What's your solution for homelessness that addresses the root causes?
The root cause is they are junkies, drunks, and bums. And they have been allowed to get away with this unlawful behavior for so long they think it is their right. If the local government fail to address this problem with a real solution, the citizens will address it on their own.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,691 Posts
The root cause is they are junkies, drunks, and bums. And they have been allowed to get away with this unlawful behavior for so long they think it is their right. If the local government fail to address this problem with a real solution, the citizens will address it on their own.
The root causes are many and they should be addressed rather than dismissing people as "junkies, drunks and bums".
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,319 Posts
The root causes are many and they should be addressed rather than dismissing people as "junkies, drunks and bums".
Ok, I'll bite. What are some of the many causes? Other than the junkies, drunks, and bums looking for a free ride?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,691 Posts
Ok, I'll bite. What are some of the many causes? Other than the junkies, drunks, and bums looking for a free ride?
How about the woman who flees her home because she's fleeing domestic violence. She has no support system because abusers tend to isolate their victims. She has no money because he controls the money. Which one is she in your opinion -- junkie, drunk or bum looking for a free ride?

How about the teenager who was thrown out of the house for coming out? Which one is that kid in your opinion -- junkie, drunk or bum looking for a free ride?

How about the family that loses the main breadwinner? They were struggling to pay the bills and, with the loss of the major breadwinner, now they can't. Junkies, drunks or bums looking for a free ride in your opinion?

How about the man who suffers a disabling accident and can no longer work? SSI disability takes months to get an answer and often that answer is "no" requiring an appeal that takes more months. Is he a junkie, drunk or bum looking for a free ride?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
41,565 Posts
How about the woman who flees her home because she's fleeing domestic violence. She has no support system because abusers tend to isolate their victims. She has no money because he controls the money. Which one is she in your opinion -- junkie, drunk or bum looking for a free ride?

How about the teenager who was thrown out of the house for coming out? Which one is that kid in your opinion -- junkie, drunk or bum looking for a free ride?

How about the family that loses the main breadwinner? They were struggling to pay the bills and, with the loss of the major breadwinner, now they can't. Junkies, drunks or bums looking for a free ride in your opinion?

How about the man who suffers a disabling accident and can no longer work? SSI disability takes months to get an answer and often that answer is "no" requiring an appeal that takes more months. Is he a junkie, drunk or bum looking for a free ride?
And for each of those you mention there are literally hundreds if not thousands of drunks, junkies and bums.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,823 Posts
How about the woman who flees her home because she's fleeing domestic violence. She has no support system because abusers tend to isolate their victims. She has no money because he controls the money. Which one is she in your opinion -- junkie, drunk or bum looking for a free ride?

How about the teenager who was thrown out of the house for coming out? Which one is that kid in your opinion -- junkie, drunk or bum looking for a free ride?

How about the family that loses the main breadwinner? They were struggling to pay the bills and, with the loss of the major breadwinner, now they can't. Junkies, drunks or bums looking for a free ride in your opinion?

How about the man who suffers a disabling accident and can no longer work? SSI disability takes months to get an answer and often that answer is "no" requiring an appeal that takes more months. Is he a junkie, drunk or bum looking for a free ride?
In the communities I have lived in there are programs and good people who will assist each of those examples. Short term, to help then get back on their feet. After a while you can start to sort out those who are just abusing the help. Many are not willing and its hard for me to have sympathy for them.
 

·
Don't let "good enough" be the enemy of perfect.
Joined
·
1,398 Posts
Do they drug test folks in government and charity owned shelters?

If not, they should. And put any who test positive in a rehab program. Second positive and they should go to jail unless they rat out their dealer---who should be prosecuted.

I think homeless shelters around here (Mississippi) limit the time occupants can stay in them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
252 Posts
That depends upon the options given. The vast majority will conform to the rules of the camp given the option of conforming or testing tensile strength of rope with their necks.
it is obivious you have not been to DC...where the homeless men do not conform, nor will you want to get near them to tensile their necks---lol. They have WEAPONS. And there are homeless turf fights all the time...some even have guns...these guys are mentally ill and don't know what a rule is...but go ahead, try to get a village together. They tried once in DC, built tiny homes and it all went away as fast as it was built...nice concept, tho.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,117 Posts
Ok, I'll bite. What are some of the many causes? Other than the junkies, drunks, and bums looking for a free ride?
In the communities I have lived in there are programs and good people who will assist each of those examples. Short term, to help then get back on their feet. After a while you can start to sort out those who are just abusing the help. Many are not willing and its hard for me to have sympathy for them.
This is making it really difficult to have an honest discussion, and this same discourse appears to be what is taking place at the macro level, and why we’ll never get to any workable solution.

The vast, vast majority of the homeless are junkies, drunks, and bums; no doubt. The vast majority of the slim minority who don’t fall into one of those those categories do qualify for some sort of assistance (as do the majority of the junkies, drunks, and bums, actually), but, even with all of those folks taken out of the mix, there are still some who don’t fit.

Out of every few thousand of the JDBLs (junkies, drunks, bums, and lazy folk) there are a handful of wrecked combat vets who may qualify for assistance, but can’t bring themselves to trust anyone in power to give them assistance. At least one or two out of every several-thousand JDBLs is someone who just wants to live like that. Then there’s the examples we’d never even think of until we met them, and probably have our world-view checked at the same time. These aren’t the people we’re worried about. They don’t take drugs, would never steal, and have too much shame to defecate where a playing child might get into it.

It’s of incredible importance, in my opinion, to avoid sweeping these folks up with the JDBLs. We’re American and we’re better than that. We don’t punish the innocent out of convenience or intellectual laziness. Willingly doing so will strip us of our Americanness.

I look at it the same way I do the civil-disarmament movement (ie. “Gun Control”). The vast majority of gun owners will never hurt anyone, yet the civil-disarmament movement predicates on punishing the lawful for the acts of the criminal. Disarming Bob the plumber does no good to protect us from Joe the drug runner. It’s not supposed to. For every Joe, there’s a thousand Bobs. It’s really just a push to disarm Bob.

Even when I transpose the ratios of JDBLs to eccentrics that we see in the homeless, I still end up at the same place. If the vast, vast majority of gun owners were violent criminals, I still can’t find the logic in disarming Bob. That’s not the American way, no matter the ratio of good-guys to bad-guys. We punish the bad, and protect the Liberty of the good. That’s what we do, lest we cease to be who we are.

Dealing with the homelessness crisis should be simple, if not a fair bit of work. Unfortunately, the politics and side-choosing gets in the way, but we have a workable formula for this.

See a smelly homeless person pooping on the sidewalk: make them clean it up, put them in cuffs and take them to a very uncomfortable jail.

See a smelly homeless person pooping on the sidewalk and, in the process of arresting them, discover that they’re crazy, get them to a mental health treatment center.

See a smelly homeless person shooting up heroin, arrest them and get them into treatment. See them do it again, and let them detox the hard way in jail.

See a smelly homeless person rough up a woman or child; throw them in the clink, and make sure their cell mates know why they’re there.

See a smelly homeless person minding their own business; smile and wave, or don’t. Maybe offer to buy them a sandwich.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
41,565 Posts
This is making it really difficult to have an honest discussion, and this same discourse appears to be what is taking place at the macro level, and why we’ll never get to any workable solution.

The vast, vast majority of the homeless are junkies, drunks, and bums; no doubt. The vast majority of the slim minority who don’t fall into one of those those categories do qualify for some sort of assistance (as do the majority of the junkies, drunks, and bums, actually), but, even with all of those folks taken out of the mix, there are still some who don’t fit.

Out of every few thousand of the JDBLs (junkies, drunks, bums, and lazy folk) there are a handful of wrecked combat vets who may qualify for assistance, but can’t bring themselves to trust anyone in power to give them assistance. At least one or two out of every several-thousand JDBLs is someone who just wants to live like that. Then there’s the examples we’d never even think of until we met them, and probably have our world-view checked at the same time. These aren’t the people we’re worried about. They don’t take drugs, would never steal, and have too much shame to defecate where a playing child might get into it.

It’s of incredible importance, in my opinion, to avoid sweeping these folks up with the JDBLs. We’re American and we’re better than that. We don’t punish the innocent out of convenience or intellectual laziness. Willingly doing so will strip us of our Americanness.

I look at it the same way I do the civil-disarmament movement (ie. “Gun Control”). The vast majority of gun owners will never hurt anyone, yet the civil-disarmament movement predicates on punishing the lawful for the acts of the criminal. Disarming Bob the plumber does no good to protect us from Joe the drug runner. It’s not supposed to. For every Joe, there’s a thousand Bobs. It’s really just a push to disarm Bob.

Even when I transpose the ratios of JDBLs to eccentrics that we see in the homeless, I still end up at the same place. If the vast, vast majority of gun owners were violent criminals, I still can’t find the logic in disarming Bob. That’s not the American way, no matter the ratio of good-guys to bad-guys. We punish the bad, and protect the Liberty of the good. That’s what we do, lest we cease to be who we are.

Dealing with the homelessness crisis should be simple, if not a fair bit of work. Unfortunately, the politics and side-choosing gets in the way, but we have a workable formula for this.

See a smelly homeless person pooping on the sidewalk: make them clean it up, put them in cuffs and take them to a very uncomfortable jail.

See a smelly homeless person pooping on the sidewalk and, in the process of arresting them, discover that they’re crazy, get them to a mental health treatment center.

See a smelly homeless person shooting up heroin, arrest them and get them into treatment. See them do it again, and let them detox the hard way in jail.

See a smelly homeless person rough up a woman or child; throw them in the clink, and make sure their cell mates know why they’re there.

See a smelly homeless person minding their own business; smile and wave, or don’t. Maybe offer to buy them a sandwich.
That’s why we need to sort them as we sweep. Put each one where they need to be. But we need to get them off of the streets. There is nothing unamerican about rehab for junkies, detox for drunks, jail for criminals or buying lunch for the poor.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32,721 Posts
It’s of incredible importance, in my opinion, to avoid sweeping these folks up with the JDBLs. We’re American and we’re better than that. We don’t punish the innocent out of convenience or intellectual laziness. Willingly doing so will strip us of our Americanness.
This is as @Nevada like I've seen you get.

No one is proposing sending those who are salvageable into the management techniques of those who cannot be saved.

Honestly, the sentiment most apparent to me in the many post is that we never seem to give up hope that any and all of them, no matter how far they have fallen, can some way, some day be redeemed. That is what Americanism means to me, that and never losing hope, thinking we can solve any problem.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,117 Posts
This is as @Nevada like I've seen you get.

No one is proposing sending those who are salvageable into the management techniques of those who cannot be saved.

Honestly, the sentiment most apparent to me in the many post is that we never seem to give up hope that any and all of them, no matter how far they have fallen, can some way, some day be redeemed. That is what Americanism means to me, that and never losing hope, thinking we can solve any problem.
Seriously.

This is a topic I would have bowed out of, as I really don’t care that much, until I saw a couple posters suggesting we round up an entire class of people and inter them, FDR-Japanese(American) style, and one even suggest that we use those who chose to leave that interment to test the tensile strength of rope.

You can try to cast my view however you like, but my position is always, consistently, one stake: we are Americans, we’re better than everyone else, and sometimes the Liberty that our forefathers shed blood for, to gift this heathen world with, comes with inconveniences.

One of us suggested re-committing FDR’s most shameful sin.
The other one is me.
I’m good with that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,823 Posts
it is obivious you have not been to DC...where the homeless men do not conform, nor will you want to get near them to tensile their necks---lol. They have WEAPONS. And there are homeless turf fights all the time...some even have guns...these guys are mentally ill and don't know what a rule is...but go ahead, try to get a village together. They tried once in DC, built tiny homes and it all went away as fast as it was built...nice concept, tho.
This can be handled. Just takes a firm hand and someone willing to forget about being politically correct and hurting feelings.
 
241 - 260 of 282 Posts
Top