Pinbone and possibly pg doe

Discussion in 'Goats' started by tioga12, Nov 24, 2006.

  1. tioga12

    tioga12 Well-Known Member

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    Here is a question for those experienced in kidding...
    I have had bucks here for the past month for breeding my Alpines and Oberhaslis. I purchased my does this summer, with no impression of any of them being bred. Earlier this month they came into estrus and were bred, although some were very obvious and others weren't, and I didn't actually see each one being bred.
    Now, the question...Last Friday I noticed that one doe is REALLY bagging up. I bought her pretty much dry in early August. Her vulva has been somewhat swollen and very pale pink as opposed to its normally darker color for a whole week now. She is definitely not in estrus, and I didn't notice a strong heat in her as the others. I had been noticing her bagging up a little, but thought it was hormones, and now she is getting quite full looking. So I am thinking she must have gotten out and gotten bred last summer. :nerd:
    I know I need to feel the pinbone, but can anyone tell me exactly how to do that? This is my first experience with a probably bred goat. I don't know how much time till she delivers. I hope it is not a false pregnancy. I have tried feeling for kids. She is getting quite fat and sassy looking, and doesn't eat any more grain than the others.
    I have been putting her in a seperate area with her twin sister for the nights now because I don't want the buck bothering her should she kid. She has thrown twins four times in her life with no problems, so I think she will do great if it turns out to be a surprise when they arrive.
    She tends to be more nervous, so I don't want to disturb her too much with prodding...How do I check that pinbone??? Any other words of wisdom appreciated! This is her-"Honeydew" Oberhasli/Alpine cross? in October
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  2. HappyFarmer

    HappyFarmer Well-Known Member

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    A cloudburst (false pregnancy) is a possibility but is not common. More than likely she is pregnant and due within 2-3 weeks if she is bagging up full-like. Some does bag up the day before, some weeks before kidding.

    At the base of the tail, put 2 fingers around the bone. You should feel ligaments (they feel like a pencil). Check these ligaments daily (compare to your other does you know arent far in their pregnancy) As the doe becomes closer to kidding these ligaments loosen up slowly, until they seem to disappear completely. When they are completely gone, the doe should be kidding within 24 hours.

    Other signs of pregnancy, but not all ways present in all does: thick white discharge 2-3 weeks before kidding, full udder, personality change, lots of lying around & sometimes groaning due to being uncomfortable, shiny udder day before kidding & nesting activities. Her anus will appear pushed out, versus a non pregnant doe whose anus is tucked up under the tail. Amniotic fluid is clear, and will form a tear drop when it is time. You could try "rolling" her belly again but she should be relaxed when you do this. Many times you can see a hoof or head moving along her belly if you watch closely. A vet could also perform a test, or I beleive there are pregnancy test strips available but I don't know if these are accurate.

    You could use a gestation calendar to figure out her latest kidding date based on the purchase day. Kidding is usually 145-155 days, depending on the breed. Based on your post it would be sometime in December or before (you probably know this).

    In the meantime I woudl prep her kidding area & watch her closely for signs.
    Hope this helps.
    HF
     

  3. annie716

    annie716 Well-Known Member

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    HF, can you tell me more about "rolling" the belly. New to goats & I haven't heard of this before. Most of my does have not been handled much so they don't relax for anything that invloves touching them but I have a couple that probably wouldn't mind. My does have all run with bucks at large so we have no definite dates on anyone for kidding, one doe had preemies a couple of weeks ago with little or no advance signs. I spend time in the feeding area every day observing so that I can hopefully notice any physical and/or behavior changes from the day before. I have 2 does separated from the herd now that I swear are about to burst. They are showing many of the signs you mentioned above, I'll check the pinbone today. They have been this way for about a month though & still no kids. Our weather will change to cold after this week so I will expect them then :).
     
  4. Caprice Acres

    Caprice Acres AKA "mygoat" Staff Member Supporter

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    [​IMG]

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    It's not the pin bones to feel, it's for the tendon that goes from the hip bones to the pin bone. Here are two photos I photoshopped to show where the tendon is. before it 'goes' it feels like a pencil. Find one of your recently bred does and find the ligaments on them before going and looking on the obviously pregnant one. This doe can still be a month away if she just started bagging up. If, overnight, her udder Swells dramatically and looks very full and shiny, she will most likely kid that day. If you live in an area that is getting chilly right now, she'll probably kid around early to mid afternoon. The best sign of kidding within the next 12 hours is the loss of her ligaments, shown in the pictures. The first picture was actually taken several hours before my doe kidded that day. When they loose thier ligaments, you can almost grab all the way around the bone before the tailhead. She will most likely kid within 12 hours of that, and depending on the season you can usually guess when. If a doe kids in summer, they usually do so around 4-5-6 0'clock. In the winter, they usually kid in the early to late afternoon 12-1-2 o'clock. But that's a 'usually' situation, i've noticed.
     
  5. Caprice Acres

    Caprice Acres AKA "mygoat" Staff Member Supporter

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    Oh, forgot to add... You can get a cheapo stethoscope from the farm store of for 5.00 from Jeffers supply. I listened to baby heartbeats with my pregnat does last year, knew for sure that they were pregnant and not false pregnancies. However, you can't hear heartbeats all the time because of positioning, and only listen on the doe's right hand side, as that's where she carries the babies. One time, though, a baby kicked the listener thingy on the stethoscope, that was fun. :)
     
  6. Caprice Acres

    Caprice Acres AKA "mygoat" Staff Member Supporter

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    [​IMG]

    This is another picture I think might help. This was taken the day my other doe, Daisy, kidded with Quads. Look where the ligament used to be... See how it's indented and she looks sunken in? Makes her tail head look like it's sticking up and shaped weird. Probably something good to keep in mind.

    Hope all that helps!
     
  7. PygmyLover

    PygmyLover nigerian & pygmy breeder

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    also in that side picture of the goat you see how the kids have dropped and she is carrying them low.

    Great picture.
     
  8. HappyFarmer

    HappyFarmer Well-Known Member

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    MyGoat, a pictures worth a thousand words. Nice pics.

    Annie, to "roll" the goat belly you straddle the goat facing towards the rear, clamp your hadns under the belly, and slowly move your arms forward, "rolling" her belly. As you do this you feel for bumps, lumps, or kicks by the kids. I find I can feel something better if I do it before they are full from eating. Seems to work better & they don't seem so uncomfortable. Sometimes it helps to take the guess out of if she's pregnant, but she has to be so far along for it to work.

    HF
     
  9. annie716

    annie716 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks so much for the great pictures & explanations, this helps, I believe after reading this & seeing the pics we should be very close. One doe's belly has dropped & will be on the ground soon if not. I'll have to go by looks this time since they're not to calm when we try to handle & I don't want to stress them out. Maybe tomorrow will be the day! :p