Pedro Rios, Jr, age 4, killed by pit bulls

Discussion in 'Countryside Families' started by primroselane, Nov 25, 2006.

  1. primroselane

    primroselane Well-Known Member

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    Family and friends gathered Friday to mourn 4-year-old Pedro Rios Jr., but postponed his burial until his maternal grandmother could arrive from Mexico.

    "Son, I know you can't hear me anymore, but thank you for the good things," Pastor Abel Villareal of Bethel Christian Center said as he looked toward the small white casket.

    "It was an honor, son.

    "I won't say goodbye, I will say, 'I will see you later,' " he said as some of the more than 150 mourners openly wept.

    The boy died Tuesday after being mauled by two pit bulls outside his home in east Harris County. He will be buried today at Grand View Memorial Park in Pasadena.

    http://chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4358829.html

    I know that all pit bulls do not kill. I know some are gentle. I also know that some smokers live to be quite old and die of unrelated illnesses. I know that people die in vehicle accidents that are wearing seat belts. I know that some people who have .08 alcohol in their system are driving more safely than teetotalers driving while talking on cell phones. I know that a small amount of Arabs are terrorists. I know that all drug users do not live a life of crime and violence.

    It is just that some potential threats require greater caution.
     
  2. holleegee

    holleegee Well-Known Member

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    That is so sad. We have had similar pit bull problems in Kansas City Missouri. A lady in her 80's was killed by a pit bull while working in her yard. So sad.
     

  3. Genevieve M.

    Genevieve M. Well-Known Member

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    I am so happy that my neighbors who had Pit Bulls moved away. None of the owners could control them. I know there are wonderful gentle Pit Bulls in the world, but the ones that were next door were just big and wild.
     
  4. A'sta at Hofstead

    A'sta at Hofstead Turkey Wrangler

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    It is just terrible. A lot of these dogs are abused on purpose. They become a body guard for thugs or are forced to fight. Sad thing is even a gentle pit bull can turn. I think it is irresponsible to own one. Period.
     
  5. Janis Sauncy

    Janis Sauncy Well-Known Member

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    I have had two dogs that were (are) only part pitbull. The one I have currently is half pitbull/half Border Collie and is nine years old. The one I had previously also lived a long life as a loved family member.

    They were (are) devoted family dogs that were (are) very protective. Totally trustworthy with my children. BUT, not to be trusted with people they didn't know, nor other dogs.

    "Belle," my current pitbull/Border Collie would lay down her life for me and my kids. She has also never attacked a chicken, goat, cat, etc. Other dogs? I can't bring stray adult dogs onto the place (I've tried) but have been able to introduce dogs into the family IF they come as puppies.

    Just the other evening, a guy from work came over to help me cut up firewood. He brought his part-Boxer (older female) over. I let his dog out of his truck because Belle was in the house but then accidentally let Belle out when I went into the house to get something. She went straight for the other dog and latched onto the throat. We had a (edited) of a time getting her to let go (I swear pitbulls have lockjaw!). We tried prying her jaws open with a piece of wood, then a screwdriver. Finally, my friend thumped her over the head with a piece of wood and she let go. She wasn't hurt and neither was the other dog, other than a small puncture wound on her neck.

    I've had people try and tell me it's "how you raise them." Bull. I've had dogs my entire life and have never, ever raised any of them to be aggressive. The only dogs I've had such a bad time with have been the two with pitbull in them (after the first one, I swore I'd never have another........Belle only joined the family because she was a tiny puppy at the time in a really bad situation, probably wouldn't have survived into her third month, and I saw no other alternative than to bring her home). We love her dearly. And, yes, she also has to be watched around people she doesn't know, although she does seem to have mellowed with people as she has gotten older.

    I don't think eliminating the breed as they are trying to do in some cities and areas is the answer. I would be heartbroken if someone tried to have Belle put down just because of her breeding. But, I don't know how I would explain that to that family who lost their little boy, either.

    (My dogs are confined to my property, however, and none of the problems have been the result of my dogs running loose.)

    Anyway, I guess what I'm trying to say, from my own experience, is that I believe pitbulls have aggressiveness bred into them. It's in their nature to fight, and if you're going to have them, you have to be prepared to make sure they are not a danger to anyone else (I don't believe ALL of them will fight or be aggressive, though). Unfortunately, pitbulls that end up in the animal shelters as strays are often considered unadoptable, regardless of their personal history, and are routinely put to sleep, rather than given a chance at adoption.
     
  6. caroline00

    caroline00 Well-Known Member

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    How tragic. I have to believe that the dog owners had no idea that this was possible.
     
  7. Janis Sauncy

    Janis Sauncy Well-Known Member

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    Since my last post, I remembered something that happened in the county I used to live in:

    It's been two years, possibly more. A little boy (8 years old, maybe) tried to take a shortcut through a neighbor's fenced yard. The owners of the home were not at home at the time, but their two dogs were. The dogs mauled the little boy to death.

    The dogs involved were, if I remember correctly, mixed breed-types. I don't believe either of them had pitbull in them. AND, they were confined in their own yard.

    I guess it just shows that it isn't only pitbulls that are capable of this kind of behavior. I do think, though, there are breeds (as in pits) that are more likely to have that aggressive trait, regardless of how they are raised.
     
  8. primroselane

    primroselane Well-Known Member

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    How would you determine neither mixed breed had pit bull in them?
     
  9. Genevieve M.

    Genevieve M. Well-Known Member

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    We had a full-blooded Great Dane puppy who was supposed to be a "gentle giant". A neighbor's 3 yr. old came into our fenced yard, and the puppy put the little boy's entire head in his mouth. The child needed 9 staples in his scalp, but could easily have died if the dog had been trying to kill him.

    Our vet and the professional trainers that had been working with the dog both insisted that the puppy was "playing". The vet didn't want to put him to sleep, so he went to live at the dog behavior school where they use him to teach trainers to work with large breeds of dogs.

    I agree that any dog can turn, although I'm probably safe with my 2 lb. Yorkie.
     
  10. donsgal

    donsgal Nohoa Homestead

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    Dogs have been bred for hundreds of years for specific purposes. Try to get a lab to NOT chase a thrown stick or a border collie NOT to herd things or a Blue Heeler not to nip at your ankles. Try to get a Great Pyr to let something eat the goats. Try to get a greyhound NOT to run.

    Unfortuately, for pitbulls they were bred for hundreds of hears to fight and to kill. I'm sorry for that. I'm sorry that these dogs have these genes and this kind of hereditary background. I don't care HOW nice you are to them, or how wonderfully you raise them or how sweet and good around children they are...they possess the genetic make up of fighters and killers and you can NEVER TAKE THAT AWAY from them.

    I have seen, first hand, the kind of damage these dogs do. If you have a very strong stomach go to http://www.liveleak.com and type in pitbull in the search box and you can see what they do (by the way, it's a lot worse in person).

    Dog fighting is illegal, dog fighting breeds should be banned. I'm sorry. There are lots of other dogs out there that people can raise, love and all that. They don't need to perpetuate a potentially vicious, killer breed. IMHO.

    donsgal
     
  11. donsgal

    donsgal Nohoa Homestead

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    Most dogs will not leave their territory to attack and kills someone/something. They will protect their territory by attacking, but as long as you are not "taking a shortcut through a neighbors fenced yard when the neighbors are not home". 99 percent of the non aggressive fighting dog types will leave you alone, or just growl an bark as a warning.

    Pitbulls (and some others), will leave their territory, sometimes breaking a fence or jumping over it, or in one case I am personally familiar with - running THROUGH a glass storm door, to attack someone who is simply walking along on the sidewalk, minding his own business. Many people who have been attacked by these dogs have been just walking along unobtrusively and were attacked.

    I think that is the main difference between just average dogs and these kinds of dogs. (although, I did have a ----Zhu run out of its house and fifty feet down the sidewalk once just to get good nip at my ankle).


    donsgal
     
  12. lonelyfarmgirl

    lonelyfarmgirl Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I have raised, fostered, and/or adopted out over 100 pitbulls in my life, and have petted, and/or been in close proximity to over 10,000. The vast majority were every bit as friendly and well behaved as any other dog. most lived in homes with children and cats. pitbulls were bred to fight OTHER DOGS. they were never bred for people aggression. that all started with the 'drug user dogs' of the 70's, after the doberman fell out of favor.Then the breed was overly bred and abused, resulting in genetic deficiencies, leading to people aggression.

    YES, most pitbulls should not be trusted around other dogs.
    NO, there is no more risk of having a pitbull in a home with children, as long as it is taught to behave, just like any other overly active, overly strong dog.
    NO, a pitbull should not be owned by a minor, or an ignorant and unprepared adult, because of the dog aggression potential.

    NO, pitbulls DONOT have 'lock-jaw'. they were bred to not let go, just like a collie can never stop herding, or a bloodhound can never stop smelling.
    any breed can 'turn' at any time.

    Pitbulls are not supposed to be gaurd dogs. In 1998, my house was robbed, and I lost everything. I had 3 pitbulls in the house. I have also had a pitbull stolen right off his chain. After my old house pit died, I bought a Great Dane, because I wanted a protector. She was well socialised, went to obedience school, the whole nine. (something Ive never done with a pitbull). My dane would peel someones face off in a heart beat, kid or not.. thats scary.

    Dont be fooled by horror stories. If neighborhoods full of thugs boys put spikey collars on jack russels, and sicked them on people walking by, then loosed them in mass to run the streets, they would hold the 33% bite percentage. It's not the breed, and it's not the breed history that is the problem.
    Its the ignoramoses that are doing it, and the believers and uneducated public who fear the worst, instead of taking action that is fair to the breed and the responsible owners.
     
  13. countryheart

    countryheart Well-Known Member

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    That is such a tragic thing to have happen to a child. I will pray for that family. So sad.

    Countryheart
     
  14. RedTartan

    RedTartan Icelandic Sheep Supporter

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    I don't believe that animals are intelligent. I believe they have instincts that can be nurtured or squelched depending on the desire of the breeder.

    You're right. Pit Bulls were bred to fight other dogs. It used to be that any Pit Bull that went after a human handler was immediately culled. That's changed. The "don't attack people" block that was present in the dog is now gone. The dogs are dangerous and should be banned.

    RedTartan
     
  15. Wags

    Wags Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I agree 100%. If you got rid of the breed (as some would like to do) the thugs and idiots would simply turn their attention to a different breed. Rottweilers, Dobermans etc have all had bad press at one time or another - mostly the result of bad breeding and idiot owners.

    When it comes to temperament testing (http://www.atts.org/stats1.html) - Pit bull type dogs scored as well or better than many common "family" breeds.

    For example:
    83.5% of American PitBull Terriers passed
    79% - Beagles
    76% - Welsh Corgies
    71% - Chihuahua
    81.6% - Dalmations
    83.1% - German Shepard Dog
    83.7% - Golden Retriver
    78.6% - Miniture Schnauzer
    63.6% - Scottish Terrier

    Overall average of all dog that took and passed the test - 81.2%
     
  16. RedTartan

    RedTartan Icelandic Sheep Supporter

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    What your test doesn't consider is the ferocity of the attack. A Miniture Schnauzer (roughly the same size as a Pit Bull) will give a quick bite when provoked and it's over, a Pit Bull won't stop until your arm is off.

    You don't hear about Welsh Corgies killing babies. You don't hear about Scottish Terriers mauling the elderly to death. I've never heard of the time a grown man lost his arms to a Golden Retriever. I've heard all of the above about Pit Bulls.

    They are vicious. You can't compare a Pit Bull attack to a typical dog bite.

    RedTartan
     
  17. donsgal

    donsgal Nohoa Homestead

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    Well, for one thing you would have to explain to me what "temperament testing" consists of. I wonder if it is a practicle test whereby you find a two year old and have him crawl all over the dog, pull on his ears and annoy him, particularly when he is eating. I wonder if you have annoying teens poke them with sticks, throw rocks and other assorted missiles at him and taunt him unmercifully. That kind of thing or whether it is some kind of sterile, useless test that doesn't really prove much.

    And what's more. When a foxhound or basenji or beagle fails the test, what kind of damage do they do when they have a poor temperament? On the other hand, when one of the 85 failing pitbulls freak out, what does it do? Rip an arm off? Do you see the difference here? Big difference.


    donsgal
     
  18. Mountaineer

    Mountaineer Well-Known Member

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    It's not just all bad owners. At the dog park I once saw an 8 week old pitty all of a sudden go completely mad while playing, bit onto another much bigger dog and continue biting. A little puppy with a seemingly loving owner!

    And as others said, if your lab bites it's likely a nip. When a pitty "bit" my pup it took THREE of us to yank it off. We almost had to kill it. I can't tell you how scary that is. I now HATE pitbulls.
    How on earth am I supposed to know which one is good and which is bad?
     
  19. Beaners

    Beaners Incubator Addict

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    It was a huge tragedy for the family.

    On the tangent I believe primroselane intended this to take, regarding pit bulls and the "kill em all" or "all dogs are good" schools of thinking....

    The majority of the forums on here are populated by people doing their best to have their livestock and their animals be no one's business but their own. How many people are killed by falling off of horses every year? What?! You mean not as many people die when they fall of goats? Shocking....ban/kill all the horses.

    Saying that all these dogs attacks would end by getting rid of pit bulls is the same as saying that if we outlaw all the drugs people use right now no one would use drugs. People are going to find a way to make dogs mean or use drugs without our intervention. What happens if they pick the kind of dog you have?

    For the record, I have a seen a little girl with her leg severely scarred from a cocker spaniel. If she hadn't been able to get halfway onto a chair that would have been her face. When I worked at a pet cemetery we had plenty of "they wouldn't do that breeds" that people had put down because of attacks. Those people loved their dogs and were putting themselves at risk of attack every day because they had bought dogs with bad backgrounds. Labrador Retrievers, Poodles (all sizes), one Saint Bernard, plenty of terrier mixes, and a Dalmation come to mind. Ban them all. No dogs, then we don't have to worry.

    Kayleigh
     
  20. donsgal

    donsgal Nohoa Homestead

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    I was doing an insurance inspection one day when a full grown PB Mix (part boxer I think, too long legged for a pure blooded PB) comes running full tilt at me. Well, it happened so fast that I really didn't even have time to be afraid (or reach for my pepper spray), fortunately, the dog was ultra friendly and the owner exceedly apologetic (I guess so since they have just put in VERY VERY strict rules in the area about pitbull ownership and she probably didn't want to risk us reporting her for not having control of her dog). But I couldn't help but wonder what might have happened if that dog had been mean. It's a frightening thought.

    donsgal