P.T.S.D., its cause and effect and a path back.

Had VA appointments this morning, foot doc (can't spell it!), labs, general MD, and PTSD group therapy session, new round. The last 8 round of PTSD stuff was complete waste of time; 'find a happy place', 'breath deeply', 'learn to relax'. Stuff you would tell a 6 year old who was suffering a temper trantum, 35 years too late and very juvinille. Not a thing that I would call helpfull; it seems as if the VA docs methods end at the same time their education ended, and some of them are dinasoures.

This new round started with the doc leader requesting that we all be on time, at exactly 8:40 each Tuesday for an undetermined length of time, may be many months. She requested this for 6 and 1/2 minutes; there in a place where stress was supposed to be reduced we were getting a sermon on being on time for 6 1/2 minutes. Didn't feel right to be there. Next we got papers to sign promissing to obey the rules (no profanity or physical gysters), no alcohol or drug use for any reason ( I only take 13 pills per day for medical purpose includeing mood elevators), still felt wrong to be there.

Then it started to be silly, she said 'we will all feel better about ourselves after we (a mouse in her pocket?) finnish this exercize'. How can she say 'we'? She has not had super alertness for 35 years, been strung out in combat mode for 24 - 7 status. I had visions of a fussy granny herding her ducks with her cane, as I tried to stay focused, did not work.

She collected the signed papers but noticed mine was not signed; this stopped the parade/charade of events; her words were 'You will sign this before we can continue'. WOAH!! Time out, I will not be herded! I have a 'will not be herded gene' and chose to use it; I placed the pen on her desk and walked out, kept my cool the whole time. I will not return to a group session for any reason, I do not want to tell a dozen strangers my inner thoughts or feelings. It took me over 4 years to even speak of it here at the other end of an electron medium where faces are not seen, how could I speak of such before strangers? I will not be quota fodder under any circumstances, that is what caused the problem to exist.

Edited to add; I can just see myself sitting before the group, trying to clarify a point about something and haveing the group disagree, a couple of them raiseing their voice to me; it would last about 10 seconds. I would be cooled off before the campus security gets there; I would have a real problem then in a physical sense, plus it would be agood reason for them to seek to place me somewhere I will not go. I am the results of a failed battle stragity, I must live with it, no one else can, no one else experienced my past. This is something I must ride till the end without allowing it to get loose ever again. You, who read the first of this series know what I am speaking about.

moopups said:

PTSD, suffered mostly by combat veterans is not limited to them, others can have it also via tragic accidents, abnormal stress, any moment of terror. Part of it is a brain chemical inbalance, the first step on the path back is found at: http://www.mhsanctuary.com/articles/emotmem.htm Its a long read but about 2/3rd ways down there is an OIC moment. The moment that can change your life for the better. Take the first step, I did and I am getting so sane its scarry.

Click to expand...

Moopups, THANK YOU for this link. I have trued just about everything I can imagine to help my DH, who spent 2 &1/2 tours in VN. He was an EOD RECONN MARINE. MANY MANY wounds, with tremendous scars! He also has SEVERE PTSD as he understandably would! He FINALLY got his 100% disability from the VA after fighting for it for 30 years. I had actually doubted some of the things he told me, because there were no records available on the things he said happened even though he had the scars. He kept telling me the records were "sealed" even now, because of where he was....you know what I'm talking about. Anyway, I kept pushing him to file for everything and anything he said happened....everything denied denied denied because they said he couldn't PROVE it was service connected. Finally, I sent a letter that he gave me all the info for stating to the VA review board where he was, what he was doing, and stated that this information was classified and that it should remain so, BUT NOT at the expense of denying one of the bravest warriors the friggin' country ever had. We got the 100% rating within 3 weeks and his backpay in 14 days. I guess sometimes you have to get tough with the ones who taught you to be tough......And BTW, I TOTALLY respect your response to the PTSD "clinic" you went to. I was a MH therapist MSW, LCSW, and Board Certified Diplomate in Social Work for over 25 years.....there is NO EXCUSE for ANYONE to treat a group of PTSD vets that way!! If I had treated any of my clients, who were mostly abusive parents and sexually abused children that way, not only would I have NEVER have been able to look myself in the mirror again, but I KNOW a reprimand would have been in the works! I APOLOGIZE for the STUPID B8888!! What a CROCK!!!

Basicallly, PTSD will not be removed or covered up, it is too strongly entrenched within the individuals mind, you cannot unring a 35 year old bell. You cannot erase extremely past memories, they have recycled for thousands of times, their pattern is too deep. The sufferors cannot push it out of their mind, the meds do not cover it up. All that can be done is to convince the victum toleave it behind and progress into an alterted view of life, "There once was an anchor" is all I can suggest. The anchor is still there, allways will be, it is personnal choise whether or not a line is attached.

Therapywise, I can only suggest the victum be made alert to the fact that it is personnal choise whether or not to be attached to the anchor; some find security within a familiar pattern even if it is negative and choose not to leave. Others fight to get away but cannot because of their closed minds. Only when there is more desirable options available is the time to gather distance from the anchor, suggest seperation only dureing the high spots. Do not seek any actions when things are at ebb, it is too easy to seek familiar patterns then. It lies within the individual as to when the seperation is correct for them, its too big for mental health people to understand if they have not experienced it. Get away when the getting is good, it will never leave you, only you can leave it.

Edited to add; After rereading your question I see I did not answer it. First of all, never a group setting, we do not want to speak in front of others,. it could trigger their memories to a worse place; its our own private ___. We do not go to reunions because we might see someone we left behind dureing the rotations, someone in a wheelchair, or legless, or totally destroied because we were not there to cover them. We have no interest in talking with someone with out scars, be they mental or physical,you must have and show scars. After we learn to trust you have walked your own path of static, then we can start to trust your words. We trusted the leaders words then, look what it got us. If you haven't been waist deep in it, you will not know about it, therefore your and our time would be wasted. Put the knarrley old dude who has lost a wife to a drunk driver on their 40th anniversary up front to speak with us, or the woman who lost her son in the mess,don't offer us second best anything, we have earned first class contact with counceilers. Backspace the numbers out of your URL and enter; 39612, then 45202, and then 44016. After you have read the three portions come ask the question again. PTSD has seperated me from normal existance this lifetime, there is no recovery, realizing that I chose to return to the human race, maybe some day I'll make it back home.

Moderator(s), if you find this off-topic, please feel free to delete it, or contact me and I will come back and delete it.

I was abused as a child and because of my early conditioning, I chose to marry one abuser after another. One of them stalked me for about ten years.

After decades of struggle; one thing I relate to is the PTSD of Veterans. I understand the deep seated conditioning of being afraid for years on end. I have also experienced useless and sometimes damaging "counseling"...

It's possible that my father-in-law had PTSD from WWII, and that played a part in the emotional abuse that produced my present husband's problems.
My poor husband is obsessed with WWII related subjects due to his father's conditioning...he is still trying to gain approval from a father who is now dead.

I guess there's one thing I can't relate to: lucky for you guys, most of you got to leave your enemies behind in another country...mine are in the next county or two. I'm living with one of them, but we're more on a "cold war" level than open warfare... And you were conditioned as adults; my conditioning started while I was still in diapers.

On the other hand, I relate to "seeing" enemies where there are none. And maybe I have more coping mechanisms since I had to learn them as a child in order to survive.

Dadgummit, I guess I'm really normal considering...

I had to come to partial terms with some of this a few years ago. I decided that I had to LIVE my life, even if the stalker was going to kill me the next hour or the next day. The fear was ruling my life to the point that I wasn't sure I wanted to continue living this way for another few decades. I decided I had to either live, or die; and living in that kind of fear year after year was like death.

Thank you for your bravery in sharing some of this. You have reminded me of my commitment to "live until I die"...I had forgotten lately...

God bless you all, I will say some prayers for you. (Even if you don't believe in God, there has got to be something good in someone thinking good thoughts about you.)

Have you ever heard of EMDR? www.emdr.com I had a medical doctor suggest I seek out this treatment and he admitted he went through EMDR for his past issues.

I have had lots of stuff happen in my young life that I would not wish upon my worst enemy.

I was diagnosed as having PTSD. My psychologist trained in EMDR treats me with proven methods (it is NOT voodoo/mind playing tricks) to treat a persons trauma. It is painful to get through it but soon those bad memories disappear. I know I stopped having nightmares/bad dreams/bad memories for the most part. It can be a lifesaver!

The psychologist I see has been in practice for 30 years and treats kids and adults. He mostly works with children who have been abused (sexual or physical or verbal). He treats kids with EMDR as well. I would ask the therapist how long he/she has been treating patients with EMDR. Go with your gut feeling about the therapist.

Hey MooPups, Thank you. The way you wrote about your life and what you went through really hit home for me. I too am hypersensitive and have PSTD from a 12 year abusive marriage. I tried to read the links you gave, but # 45202 and 44016 doesn't work for me. But the first post you wrote I could really identify with your reactions and emotions so I want to use it to help my children. I have a 17 yo daughter and a 15 year old son. My ex took them from me 5 yrs ago and now they have returned with this same pstd. My daughter was thrown in jail by her father for cutting him with a knife, which turned out to be self inflicted, thats how I found them. The court called me, and she came home with me 2 months ago. I am simplifying her reactions to stress, criticism, or any time of guilt of fear of retribution, but she takes on the Ill get you before you get me mentality. My 15 yo son Freddy ran away from home to come here 2 weeks ago. He self medicates, avoids issues and really keeps things inside....
I really want to help them and myself. I am starting to have good days, ie days without waking up to dread and fear that the other shoe will fall any minute now. I really like to good days. I can almost breathe normally now( without holding my breath all the time). But I have had a good, supportive husband( he is a vet too and understands how I think) We have moved to isolation in the country so that my senses aren't overwhelmed every minute of the day. So I am healing. Your post connected with some of the things that are happening with me naturally over the past 5 years that is bringing me some peace. Do you have any suggestions to help my tenagers? and to help me be a parent to them. They are smart and not too wild as far as teenagers go, but I cant be critical, or have a tone in my voice. They perceive every nuance and get offended easily. I see this, and try to be supportive, and any advice you give, will be appreciated and used to help me, help them and I love you from the bottom of my heart for being brave enough to survive ____, walk through____, learn to heal, and be loving enough to share.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h164/tcboweevil/fallenangelofwar.jpg
Pictures fram an artist. I will get the name. My sister-in-law sent me this picture from him. I tells how he can't forget that th war is over. That he will battle his own demons until the angels take him home. Love to all who gaveto save us and rest to those who gave all.

Moopups -

never have I read someone descibe the feelings and dealings of suffering from PTSD so accurately as what you have wrote. Thank You. You have put into words what I can not explain.

I was dx with PTSD 2+ years ago while my DD at age 3, was going through her 2nd year of chemotherapy. No, I don't have the honor of being a veteran, just a Mom suriving ___on earth trying to fight an unseen war and keep her baby alive. DD had 3 years of chemo and many nearly fatal episodes from secondary infections, but my battles weren't just holding her hand and feeding her chemicals in a hospital. My HOME became a war zone - against germs/mold. I was in a state of complete paranoia, just knowing that ANY germ/mold she was exposed to could possibly kill her in a very short amount of time. 24/7 care for her was intense, nerve wracking and an physically draining.The house had to be "sterilized" everyDAY. Lack of sleep made me a zombie - but I still had to be completely alert for any "sign" that something might be wrong. I did this - and more- for 3 years. I still do this to some degree 1 year later.

This probably pales in comparison to your experiences but perhaps there are a few similarities.

I guess I'm doing Ok with the PTSD - I tried the drugs the Dr gave me but I didn't like the way they made me feel - I still have bouts of paranoia and reoccurant nightmares, feelings hit me at time seemingly out of nowhere, but I guess my biggest problem I deal with is the FEAR of it all - what "could" have happened and what could possibly STILL happen. I cringe and get that awful knot in my stomach each time DD makes a complaint about an ailment that could be nothing at all - just childhood - OR could be a sign of the cancer returning. Just knowing that there is the possability that we may have to face this battle again - but worse can be my undoing some days. I can't forget what we've been through and I fear having to do it again....I just don't know how to get past that. I'm extremely sensitive to things related to what we've been through and am overly protective of DD. She does have physically and mental disabilities due to the infections, surgeries and chemotherapy. It is a daily slap in the face knowing that cancer "stole" this from her, and that schools and Drs. don't know hoe to help her because there isn't enough known about the long term effects of treatments - there just aren't enough survivors yet - so she "falls through the cracks". How do you PROVE a problem if supporting data doesn't exist?
I'm tired. Today is one of my off days - can you tell?
Having our homestead helps. It helps me focus on other things and being here only 5 months there is plenty around here to do. I'm doing Ok. My prayer is that the further away we get from the experience the less often I'll have these days. I won't pretend that I'll forget what all we went through - nor would I want to - to do so I feel would nullify the fight and give it less meaning - I just want the feelings to lose their sting.

I guess I really didn't contribute anything to this thread - but it felt good to "voice" my feelings.
Sorry for the intrusion.

EMDR treats military veterans and anyone suffereing from PTSD and it helps the individual erase memories, however, I am told that some people will not benefit but overall many veterans claim they now can have a life. EMDR wiped away some of my horrid memories, the ones that were treated......

Check out a brief overview of EMDR http://www.emdr.com/briefdes.htm


American Psychiatric Association (2004). Practice Guideline for the Treatment of Patients with Acute Stress Disorder and Post-traumatic Stress Disorder. Practice Guideline for the Treatment of Patients with Acute Stress Disorder and Post-traumatic Stress Disorder. Arlington, VA: American Psychiatric Association Practice Guidelines.

• EMDR was given the highest level of recommendation (category for robust empirical support and demonstrated effectiveness) in the treatment of trauma.

Department of Veterans Affairs and Department of Defense (2004). VA/DoD Clinical Practice Guideline for the Management of Post-Traumatic Stress. Washington, DC.

• EMDR was placed in the "A" category as “strongly recommended” for the treatment of trauma.


To find a EMDR therapists click on: http://www.emdr.com/clinic.htm