Our thoughts for a place on our land-the 'Shabin'.

Discussion in 'Homesteading Questions' started by oz in SC, May 30, 2005.

  1. oz in SC

    oz in SC Well-Known Member

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    That is a cross between a shed and a cabin... :D

    We are going to buy(we think) a 16' wide x20' long x17' high gambrel style barn/shed thingy....

    We saw one while on our 'mini-vacation' in NC and it comes out to be about 700 square feet.It costs around $8600 built on your land.It has no insulation but we thought we could do that ourselves and then panel the interior walls and lay some flooring as well as put in cabinets and a bathroom.

    We drew up a plan and we could have a bathroom in one corner under the stairs and a kitchen running along one wall.

    The main double doors we would not really be used(put a sofa in front) but we would still have them as it will make it easier to bring furnishings and cabinets,etc in while constructing the inside.

    The side door would be at the foot of the stairs so it would take up less floorspace.

    The entire upstairs would be bedroom.

    We are going to find out IF we can have the septic installed for the main house and tie the 'Shabin' into that as well as run power to the site.Power is at the property line but not sure if the Power Co. will run it to the site with no home present.

    Water will be hauled I guess at this point or possibly a well drilled although that is MORE money. :rolleyes:

    So we are hoping the 'Shabin' with power,septic and plumbing will come in under $15,000....

    And it will enable us to have a place to stay that is permanent and can later be used for a guesthouse.

    Anything we missed???
     
  2. Alice In TX/MO

    Alice In TX/MO More dharma, less drama. Supporter

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    This is exactly what Sancraft is doing. Hers is made by Dura-bilt and delivered to the site. Then, you finish the inside, add a porch, etc.

    If I didn't have a zillion other projects in the works, I'd do it too.
     

  3. Shagbarkmtcatle

    Shagbarkmtcatle Hillybilly cattle slaves

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    We have one we use as our week-end house on our farm. It came in under $5,000. We insulated the inside, wired it and walled in the walls inside. Then we layed vinyl on the floor. Next is kitchen cabinets. Ours is 14 x 38. No upstairs. The beds are on the far end opposite the double doors. We have thought about adding a bathroom, we have a great outhouse though. I guess if we build our house and want to use this one as a guesthouse we will. We also have a smaller one with four bunks in it for overnight guests. I have an electric stove, fridge, heat and ac. Works great
     
  4. akmyilee

    akmyilee Well-Known Member

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    I have been looking at this too, I see adds all the time for "sheds" that are pretty cheap.....IF you do it and it works well, youwill have to come down to Columbia and tell us what to do :) I'll keep watching the posts please let us know how it works.
     
  5. mtman

    mtman Well-Known Member

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    when you look up you see the plywood roof you will have to vault the ceiling to insulate you should not put insulation right on the roof wood it will not breath and sweat then rot
     
  6. oz in SC

    oz in SC Well-Known Member

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    We were thinking of going to the metal roof for several reasons-to match the house we are planning,it would last a lot longer,AND there sound of rain on the roof :D

    Not sure whether to have it done by the builder ($3.25/sq foot) OR have it done afterward...any thoughts?

    The company is Classic Manor Builders and they had a website but it is now under construction...

    I had read Sancraft's post about this and gone to that comapny's website,we need to investigate WHICH company we will buy from...or if it would be better to have a local build something...

    I am going to call the power Co. today and find out if a temporary pole can be put in.

    Also about the septic.

    Thanks all. :) will keep you updated.
     
  7. bare

    bare Head Muderator

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    What? Is everybody afraid to build anymore? Why not start on a proper foundation, using 2x6 lumber that can be well insulated, proper plywood flooring and roofing?

    If it seems like a mystery to you, pour your own foundation and hire a framer who will have you dried in before you know it.

    Sheds are great for sheds, but I'd sure want to really study the construction of the thing before committing to adding expensive plumbing and finishing touches to something that isn't going to last.
     
  8. oz in SC

    oz in SC Well-Known Member

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    Well... in a word...YES!!! :haha:

    I built a chicken coop-it is an 'interesting' structure to say the least...

    Here are some specs on this particular 'shabin':

    3/4'' pressure treated floor system downstairs.

    3/4'' CDX plywood upstairs.

    Metal roof $3.25 sq foot.

    OSB under metal roof $1.40 sq foot.

    Siding choice of 5/8'' T1-11 or 3/8'' primed smart siding.

    It CAN be built on a slab....no idea the cost of that however...
     
  9. bare

    bare Head Muderator

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    Sounds good as far as it goes, but things to ask about are size and spacing on floor joists. Every pre-built shed I've ever been in has "bouncy" floors, because they are built as sheds, not homes. It's pretty typical to run plumbing in the floors, which will be hard to do in a pre-built structure. You can nearly double the R value of your wall insulation by using 2x6 framing lumber vs. 2x4 lumber and the cost difference is negligible.

    The biggest expense of a conventional house is the finishing touches you add. You have to have good plywood to lay vinyl on or it's not going to hold up. Plumbing in slabs, even with the newer systems is still problematic.

    I know before I put out 9000 for a 16x20 gambrel building, I'd look into upgrading the basics and having a framer put it up. We're talking a day or two work here after the slab or foundation is in.
     
  10. oz in SC

    oz in SC Well-Known Member

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    Okay so before we proceed find out size and spacing of floor joists.There didn't seem to be a lot of bounce in the model we walked in-even in the upstairs room.

    The walls being 2x4 instead of 2x6 is not that much of an issue down here...
    Remember that this is NC NOT Idaho-the weather while chilly is NOT frozen... :D

    I thought of using that styrofoam insulation (R-3 value) and putting three layers in the walls...would that work??? :confused:

    Would it then be R-9? :confused:

    It is all greek to me... :haha:

    So you think if we find a framer or the like and have him build a shell it would possibly be less?

    What we are hoping for is to have whatever built as a outbuilding/farm building so it doesn't require any permits and inspections....

    Thanks for your help.
     
  11. bare

    bare Head Muderator

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    Insulation ain't just to keep the warm in Oz, it's to keep the warm out too, which I imagine will be the issue for you.

    The minute you start adding plumbing or electric is when you'll start needing permits, whether it's a shed or a conventional stick-built home.

    Styrofoam kills if it ever catches fire.
     
  12. Cyngbaeld

    Cyngbaeld In Remembrance Supporter

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    OZ, I've looked into sheds for cabins and cabins for cabins etc, and think they are all really overpriced. I've also been looking into houses that need to be moved and have seen several around 700 to 900sf for 12k to 15k, moved and leveled on your foundation.

    But I really want a strawbale home. So I'm thinking of getting someone to put up a pole shelter with just the poles and metal over plywood roof. Then I can build window and door bucks and get some people to stack the bales. Then get a stucco company to put the adobe plaster and lime render on the bales. I can do the electrical and plumbing. I want casement type windows and would like to make those and the doors myself. Then I can get a concrete guy to come pour a puddled adobe floor for me. I will need someone to do the ceiling and will insulate with straw or sawdust. I will prob use sheetrock for the ceiling to reduce fire danger and I would love pressed tin ceilings over the sheetrock. For interior walls I will do the stuffed walls using 2x4s and chicken wire, stuffed with straw and covered with adobe plaster by the sutcco people. In bath and kitchen I plan on using ceramic tile for floors and walls for easy cleanup. I'll make the cabinets myself and use tile for the counters and shower. I want a screened porch wrapped all around the house too.
     
  13. Mudwoman

    Mudwoman Well-Known Member

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    Opt for putting in an exterior grade french door for the double doors. Will look nice.

    Finish out will cost you more than you think. You can save by making just lower cabinets out of plywood and 2 x 4's and metal corner brackets. Insulation has gone up so much. Last time I bought, ran about 60 cents a sq ft. You've got close to 1400 sq ft of wall and floor and ceiling, so you can figure $1000 just for the insulation before you put any paneling up. Our septic ran $2400. Then there is the wiring for the house. Figure another $1000 for wire, plugs, breakers, and lights if you do it yourself. Add an electrician at $20 hr if you can't. To have our plumbing roughed in by a plumber for kitchen and 1 bath was $3500. Then there is paint for the outside. You can probably do some type of flooring for $1 sq ft, so that comes in around $700. Double or triple that for something nice. What about cooling and heating? Good window a/c for upstairs and down would cost you about $700 total and then a wood stove for heat($2K by the time you figure in the stove pipe and outside chimney) or one of the Rinnai infrared heaters ($400). Are you going to have propane? If you buy your tank, you pay less for the propane, but a tank installed will cost you too. Appliances? Toilet? Shower or tub? Sinks? Washer/dryer? Laundromat gets expensive. Ran us around $80 a month to go to the laundromat!

    Cha-ching, cha-ching. This is why my house is not finished :bash: :waa:
     
  14. mtman

    mtman Well-Known Member

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    wow what are you trying to do scare him
     
  15. oz in SC

    oz in SC Well-Known Member

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    The area we are building is an 'isothermal area' :confused: ...supposedly due to the mountains nearby the temps do not fluctuate as much as they should...

    For example,we stayed in a cabin this past weekend that was converted from a cow barn.

    It was a simple A-frame style roof over a block basement and only the top part was cabin.

    The bedroom was straight tin roof-no insulation and it was comfortable with just fans.In fact at night we turned on the heat.There WAS A/C however and obviously it is needed at some time.

    The square footage of the 'shabin' is about 640 heated square feet so a good sized window A/C upstairs should do it....heat will be a small wood stove similar to the one sold in Harbor Freight.Buy the A/C used.

    Fixtures will be not that expensive as we have some contacts.
    Flooring would be almost free as well.

    Same with countertops hopefully.

    Electric is a biggie,we don't know any electricians.

    Plumbing to me seem straighforward and could be done.

    Laundry will be outside-did that once before when we lived on a boat-washer sat under a tree.. :haha:

    We would have propane as it will be used in the main house as well.

    Have thought of using one of those instant on hot water units..not sure on that yet.

    Okayyyyy, just talked to the guy helping us up there and he suggested doing a real barn with apartment.

    It is considered an agricultural building and is not subject to permits and the like and can be plumbed and have power...

    So now we need to ponder WHAT we want out of the 'barbin'...(BARn-caBIN)
    :haha:

    Any ideas on a good sized loft barn?

    20'x30' for a utility barn sound good?

    Thanks again for all the help... :D
     
  16. Fire-Man

    Fire-Man Well-Known Member Supporter

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    OZ--------------Are you going by the book as far as permits and inspections go?? Are you going to be in SC or NC? Not Where, but What area are you going to be in? If I was going to do what you are wanting to do-----------I would do no more than I had to do. I did a "SHOP" hooked up service put in a couple of lights and a couple of plugs, told him I might add a welder and a large air compressor so he wouldn't FUSS about my 200 amp service, you probably want need but around a 100/125 amp service. I Got a inspection, got power, inspector GONE---------Then I went to work-----added bathroom, added kitchen, added inside walls, you get the idea. The less you do or the less the inspector knows-----------the better off you will be. As long as you don't do large additions on the outside, you want have any problems. I would contact the building inspector, tell him you want to have a shop built to keep your lawn mower and tools in and want to put electric to the building so you can have a light if you VISIT the lot at night. Ask him what you need to do to do this.Tell him you want to build a home on the lot in a few years. But in NO WAY tell him you want to live in the Shed. If he ask about water--tell him you don't have a well there so --no water. If he ask about plumbing-------no water/ no plumbing------don't offer no info--just answer his questions he ask. Once he is gone and you got the final, and the electric. Go For It!! I have been using a 100 gallion barrel septic tank I (I hand dug the hole)put in 5 years ago with no problem, but I catch my shower/tub water for watering plants, and I have a low water usage comode. Its going to look kinda Funny if you have the septic system put in now and not going to build for years, remember it has to be inspected too. I feel that if you tell the inspector you want to live in this shed-------------the shed builder will have to change ALOT of things so this Shed will come up to CODE for a Dwelling. Randy
     
  17. oz in SC

    oz in SC Well-Known Member

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    It will be in Rutherford County NC.

    Yes we believe in the less the 'authorities' know the better... :haha:

    So do most folks up there it seems...the cabin we just stayed in is as far as the county is concerned an agricultural building.... :D

    The contractor we are working with says basically the same thing-tell them as little as possible,get whatever permission is needed and go ahead with your plans.

    I think most people build shops and such with little or no gov't intrusion and do what they want later on...

    IF we do go the 'shed/cabin-shabin' route it will NOT be discussed in detail with the powers that be...it will simply be a building on our property.

    Like the contractor helping us said on the phone-get what you want done and put up a gate and lock it-then they can't find out what is going on.. :haha:
     
  18. Alex

    Alex Well-Known Member

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    For $5,000 CDN, today, you can make your own log cabin, like we did. You would have to add extra for power, like we have now; and if you want an indoor toilet and shower, like we have now too, then you have to add extra for that.

    We did and still do use our out house too, it is great. We have power now -- didn't for the first two years -- that was great too. Grid power came the 7 miles down our road and it was and still is so much cheaper than the alternatives of generator, solar voltaic, or none: that we just had to hook up -- don't need it though.

    [​IMG]
    Our Log Cabin Today, with Porches Front And Back, Raililngs at Back Are From Cut Logs From Top Deck French Door, Big Posts At Front Deck are From Cut Out Large South Window

    Our log cabin is 20'-4" x 28'-1", two story, 12'-0" x 24'-0" decks top and bottom, front and back porchs. Heat with wood, wood cookstove, and a propane BBQ with side grill for summer back-deck cooking and canning.

    No TV, but we just got a 2000 Lumen DLP projector and a DVD player, with lots of speakers all around, so we can watch a move if we want to, on a screen that came with the projector -- half the size of the cabin. That's sure nice once and awhile -- to watch a show in your own home.

    Planting new blueberries bushes and the garden today.

    Enjoy,

    Alex
     
  19. oz in SC

    oz in SC Well-Known Member

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    That looks very much like the cabin we just stayed in shape-wise.

    Sadly we have almost no trees on our land to build from,it was all logged about nine years ago.

    An adaptation of that with a block lower floor and a wooden upper might be something for us to consider.

    It looks wonderful as does your land.
     
  20. sancraft

    sancraft Well-Known Member

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    Do exactly as Fire-Man says about the inspectors. Where I live, the permit for a work shop is a lot cheaper than for a house and before you can get a building permit for a house, you have to have the septic in place. Use a sawdust toilet. That is what we will be using. I would love to build, but don't have the available cash. The Dura-Built is rent to own with only a $200. deposit and first noth payment up front. The financing is for 36 months and there is no interest. Ours will be only 12x30. That's as big as they can truck them out. I will probably buy another one as soon as I can and put it opposite the first, add a porch in between and make it a dog trot house.