Organic Eye Opener

Discussion in 'Homesteading Questions' started by SRSLADE, Aug 2, 2005.

  1. SRSLADE

    SRSLADE Well-Known Member

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    ARE YOU BUYING ORGANIC THAT IS FERTILIZED WITH HUMANURE AND DON'T EVEN KNOW IT ? DOES IT MATTER ?... YEARS AGO I USED A PRODUCT CALLED MALORGANITE. FOR TREES AND FLOWER BEDS AS IT WAS WHAT THE COMPANY RECOMMENDED AND SPECIFICALLY NOT TO USE ON PLANTS FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION.RECENTLY I WENT TO AGWAY AND WANTED TO KNOW IF THEY HAD ORGANIC FERTILIZER. I WAS GIVEN A NICE BIG FAT BAG OF MALORGANITE. MUCH TO MY SURPRISE THE BAG NOW SAID IT WAS GREAT FOR VEGGIES BUT, I DON'T RECALL IT SAYING IT WAS MADE FROM SEWAGE SLUDGE!MMMMMMMMMMAYBE.WHAT'S CHANGED?I RECALL READING THAT CHINA IS ONE OF THE LARGEST PRODUCERS OF ORGANIC FOODS FOR EXPORT!!!GUESS WHAT CHINA HAS A LOT OF? WHEN NEXT YOU GO TO "WALLY-WORLD" AND GET THOSE CHOICE TIDBITS FOR SALAD ,FORGET THE DRESSING.IT'S ALREADY BEEN SIDE-DRESSED!!! HOW ABOUT THE NEIGHBORHOOD FARM? WHAT'S THEIR FERTILIZER OF CHOICE? I CAN'T SAY I'VE FORMED A REAL OPINION,I'D JUST LIKE TO KNOW.IS IT MINE OR SOMONE ELSES.I FIND IT CONFUSING BECAUSE IT'S SOOOO ORGANIC AND PERSONNAL. BON APPETIT! :confused:
     
  2. pcdreams

    pcdreams Well-Known Member

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    Honestly I don't understand what all the fuss is about humanure. As long as it is cooked as prescribed (2-3 years) then its no different than any other compost. its organic matter so it decomposes, doesn't matter if its out of a butt or not..

    :rock:
     

  3. mistletoad

    mistletoad Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That's Milorganite - pure Milwaukee sewage since the 1920's. We don't use it, we use compost and composted manure from animals we know.
     
  4. Mrs_stuart

    Mrs_stuart Well-Known Member

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    SRSLADE,
    I like your style...I too find it way to personal to be side dressing my organics with someones elses poo!!! Now, if i decided to humanure my own family waste, and i absolutely knew what i was doing and that i was doing it correctly, then i might reconsider. My other thought, when has the "industry" come out with a good product with our (the consumers) health and interest as a concern for them??? I really doubt that it is now!! :eek:

    Belinda
     
  5. LittleJohn

    LittleJohn Well-Known Member

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    The problem with Humanure is that a large percentage of the population has mercury amalgam fillings and Humanure often has enough mercury to technicaly be hazardous waste! Besides that most people eat processed foods that have many chemichals and addatives these things can build up over time. Even worse have you any idea how much chemichals are flushed down drains? Ever see people use those blue things in thier toilets? You realise most city water has chlorine and flouride right? All of those things are concentrated when dried. Those are my worries.

    If its from your family and you dont have "silver fillings" or use a large amount of comercial processed foods or aluminum salt in your bakeing powder then all it needs is proper composting and it will be fine. Probably safer than fresh animal waste which many people use on their gardens.
     
  6. sullen

    sullen Question Answerer

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    I am with you guys...most people are so full of chemicals and preservatives I want nothing to do with their germs, forget about their poo! How about Birth Control? The environment is fulling up with estrogen because American women want to be baby and responsibility free.
    OH don't get me started....It's just the fact that THEIR choice affects MY water.
     
  7. MsPacMan

    MsPacMan Well-Known Member

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    I am an organic gardener, pal around with other organic gardeners, and teach organic gardening classes.


    I have never known a single organic gardener stupid enough to use Milorganite (and it is Milorganite, not Malorganite) or any other product that is composed whole or in part of human manure.


    I specifically teach against that in my organic gardening classes.


    There are some animal manures that are safe for organic gardens, and have been used in food production for hundreds of years (centuries longer than the chemical fertilizers now in use).


    Specifically, these animal manures are: horse manure, rabbit manure, cow manure, turkey manure or chicken manure.


    What these manures have in common is that these animals eat plants, not other animals.


    Manures that are NOT used in vegetable gardens include: dog, cat, human, etc. You do NOT use manures in the garden that come from meat eating animals. Use of such manures facilitates the spread of disease, and no organic gardener I know uses them.
     
  8. FarmerJeff

    FarmerJeff Well-Known Member

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    As a fairly hardcore libertarian, I recognize the irony in what I am about to post. I run a certified organic farm. The only fertilizer products that can legally be called organic are those that are OMRI listed. This is the clearinghouse that maintains certifications and standards for products that are allowable under the USDA National Organic Program. Any one who calls something "organic" that is not OMRI listed is setting themselves up for a serious fine as USDA gears up their enforcement program. It is happening now here in New Hampshire.
     
  9. unioncreek

    unioncreek Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Heavy metals would be my main concern. I don't think I would use it anyway, just the thought. When I lived in Bozeman MT the city sewage plant contracted with local farmers to supply sewage sludge free of charge just to get rid it. They even supplied a big rig that injected the sludge 12 inches deep in the soil. I know that they tested for heavy metals every time they applied it.

    Bobg
     
  10. Back when I was still doing electrical work I had to go and work at one of these plants that make organic compost out of human sludge. Had about a week long job there. It was very interesting to watch how it was done. They would put several big scoops of human sludge in this big mixer then add so many scoops of what they called Fly Ash (coal ashes), and then they would put in so much lime. Then the mixer would mix it up for so long and slowly emty on to a conveyor that would empty into this big incenerator that would cook the poop for so long. At the other end of this incenerator it would empty the product out onto another conveyor which would carry the cooked product out to another room where it would fall onto the floor. This stuff would look so rich that you figure if you put on your beans the next morning you could play Jack and the Beanstalk. Then they would use a tractor with a bucket on front and scoop this stuff up and pile it in a area so that it could cool down for several days. When cooled it would be put back into another mixer that would mix it up again and then empty into the bags that you buy it in.

    Only bad part about watching this operation! :grit: It stunk something awful at this place. Surprisingly the men who worked at this place were all married. My wife just about divorced me the first night I came home after working at this place.
    :nono:
     
  11. pcdreams

    pcdreams Well-Known Member

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    honestly. LOL

    Now I agree I wouldn't use humanure made from anyone but my own family. but the whole bit about carnivore poop spreading disease is just nonsense. I agree that it probally takes longer to break down, and if you use it before its ready it could spread disease, but if you cook it right you should have no problems.

    The comment about organic is just regulation nonsense. Now if you're going to try to sell something as organic then your right. But I wouldn't try to sell something grown with humanure anyway. As I say I wouldn't use humanure made outside the family and I wouldn't sell it either for the same reasons.

    as always this is MHO, y'all do what you thinks best.
     
  12. Cabin Fever

    Cabin Fever Life NRA Member since 1976 Supporter

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    I may be splitting hairs, but the USDA Organic Program has no, I repeat, no regulations regarding the labeling of fertilizers. Consequently, the fine public utility in Milwaukee, who has been a leader in nutrient recycling for over 70 years, has every right in the world to label its product “organic”…which it is. It’s certainly not, inorganic. The USDA program does, however, prohibit the use of sewage sludge as a fertilizer for any food product seeking the “organic” label. Just to let you feces-phobic people know, we grow our garden using a material that is full of heavy metals. Here is a partial analysis of this material:
    Arsenic: 5,000 ppb
    Boron: 10,000 ppb
    Cadmium: 100 ppb
    Chromium: 70,000 ppb
    Cobalt: 8,000 ppb
    Lead: 30,000 ppb
    Mercury: 60 ppb
    Nickel: 50,000 ppb
    Vanadium: 50,000 ppb
    (ppb = parts per billion)

    Would this material pass as “organic?”
     
  13. pcdreams

    pcdreams Well-Known Member

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    thanks CF I knew there had to be another voice of reason out there :)
     
  14. MarkNH

    MarkNH Well-Known Member

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    If the meat eater manure is not properly cooked, wont issue's like those triggering Mad Cow disease occur? Wasn't MCD triggered by feeding ground up animals and manure back to the animals?
     
  15. pcdreams

    pcdreams Well-Known Member

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    most likely. Which is why I stressed (or tried to) that it MUST be properly cooked (takes 2-3 years as opposed to 6-12 month)
     
  16. Cabin Fever

    Cabin Fever Life NRA Member since 1976 Supporter

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    And remember......

    "Soylent Green is people!!!!!!"
     
  17. gilberte

    gilberte Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Another example of todays truth in advertising. Which would you consider buying:

    1. "Certified Organic Compost"
    2. "Properly Cooked Human Defecation"

    Just goes to show you that if you pass the right laws, tweek the definitions just right, and have the right ad campaign, you can even sell human waste ;)
     
  18. gardentalk

    gardentalk Well-Known Member

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    Personally, I can't fathom coating my garden with someone else's sh*t, let alone my own family's. Much less the Chinese. Let those idiots keep their hotwheels and waterhose sprays that look like showerhead contraptions. There are just some things in this world that I can not do. Then again, it took me YEARS to feel comfortable walking down the toilet paper aisle with my wife. :D
     
  19. Ken Scharabok

    Ken Scharabok In Remembrance

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    "If the meat eater manure is not properly cooked, wont issue's like those triggering Mad Cow disease occur? Wasn't MCD triggered by feeding ground up animals and manure back to the animals?"

    OK, one more time. The feeding of meat and bone meal to livestock has been a fairly common practice for well over 100 years. Essentially at slaughterhouses anything which didn't have market was cooked down and made in M&BM. It was used as a feed supplement as it was high in protein, calcium and phosphorous. A rendering plants, almost the entire carcass would be processed (e.g. hooves might be cut off first).

    No doubt this processes included scrapie infected sheep for as long as it existed. Since it didn't cause a problem (the BSE/MCD outbreak in Britian) until the late 80s, something else besides prions in it had to have triggered the outbreak.

    So IMHO your answer is yes, but not directly, or at least as the sole cause.

    One issue I didn't see addressed was what happened to all of the manure producted by those BSE-infected cattle in Britian. Prions in, must have resulted in prions out. Surely some of it ended up as fertilizer, perhaps even garden fertilizer. It is nearly impossible to kill a prion short of a nuclear explosion.

    There was one case in Britian where a vegetarian was diagnosed with vCJD. Since they hadn't eaten beef, how then? Suggestion, which I think is a very, very long stretch, was they had used BSE-infected bone meal in the garden and had inhaled some of it. Might it also have been another fertilizer produce made from manure from BSE-infected cattle?

    The only manure cattle would have been commercially fed* is composted poultry litter. I have seen absolutely no connection between it and BSE. This was predominately done in feedlots as a cheap source of protein. However, it has now been banned, as has essentially the feeding of most livestock by-products (I guess milk would be an exception) back to other livestock.

    * I have seen my cattle walk though a spring-fed creek run and past a pond to drink out of a puddle in which the cattle had been dumping in.

    We have a local fish broker who purchases fresh-caught catfish from KY Lake and makes them into fillets for area restaurants. He had a nice side income of feeding the heads, guts and skin to feeder pigs. USDA prohibited it, so it now goes to a landfill. Now how are fish scraps going to cause anything related to SE in hogs? USDA is, at least in this particular case, being far too overly cautious IMHO.

    CJD (the human equivalent of MCD) occurs naturally in about 1/1M deaths. Since Britian has a population of about 80M, about 80 deaths from it would occur annually. In the 17-some years since MCD was found, there have been only about 150 cases of vCJD found, with about 140 of them in Britian, and most of the rest associated with eating British beef. In the same time period roughly 1,360 Britians would have died of CJD.

    IMHO the dangers of acquiring cCJD from BSE-infected meat has been extremely overblown.
     
  20. LittleJohn

    LittleJohn Well-Known Member

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    Insecticide Causes Mad Cow Disease


    Pharmaceutical interests in the UK are ignoring new scientific research that shows the insecticide used in the UK government's own warble-fly campaigns triggered the UK surge of 'Mad Cow' disease.

    Latest experiments by Cambridge University prion specialist, David R. Brown, have shown that manganese bonds with prions. Other researchers work shows that prions in the bovine spine -- along which insecticides are applied -- can be damaged by ICI's Phosmet organophosphate(OP) insecticide -causing the disease.


    http://www.mercola.com/2000/dec/17/bovine_spongiform_disease.htm



    Do a search on BSE and insecticiede its been well known for some years I was reading about it at least 5 years ago when most of the british scientists exposeing it started dieing in car wrecks.