Odd behavior btw Mom and Kid

Discussion in 'Goats' started by shelljo, Mar 28, 2006.

  1. shelljo

    shelljo Well-Known Member Supporter

    Messages:
    1,238
    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2005
    Location:
    SW KS--Cowboy country
    Just a quick question--

    Last night, I saw our first time mom pick up one if her 2 day old kids by the ear and give it a toss. Now, is this a potential rejection happening? Or was it simply a "dang it kid, get your hiney over there."

    I've never seen this kind of thing before, so thought I'd better ask. This kid was the smallest of the 4 she had.

    Should I be worried?
     
  2. Cheryl in SD

    Cheryl in SD Living in the Hills Supporter

    Messages:
    4,534
    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2005
    Location:
    South Dakota
    Is she letting him nurse? or butting him away there too? 4 is alot of any momma to handle.

    Cheryl
     

  3. Sweet Goats

    Sweet Goats Cashmere goats

    Messages:
    2,023
    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2005
    Location:
    CO
    I am sorry that made me laugh. :p I so could see one of my does doing that. I bet it was pretty funny to see. So are things better now? Is he able to nurse?
     
  4. witchysharon

    witchysharon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    171
    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2004
    Keep your eye on mom and this baby. Make sure she is not hurting it, is allowing it to nurse and hasn't decided to reject it. If she continues to keep it away (by 'tossing' or butting) you may have to bottle feed. Hopefully it was a one time occurrence and everything is back to normal.
     
  5. shelljo

    shelljo Well-Known Member Supporter

    Messages:
    1,238
    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2005
    Location:
    SW KS--Cowboy country
    I'm hoping it's a one time thing, but I will watch--just in case. I have seen this little one nurse and I've seen it pee and poop (bodily functions are SO facinating, aren't they!) so I know it's gotten some nutrition, but, I do realize that 4 is a lot and since this one is the smallest one, I've been watching it pretty close. Last night, it did try to "jump" around, but none of the 4 have really been very confident in doing much running/jumping yet.

    So, thanks. I'll keep watching in case she decides to reject it.

    Is 2 days too soon to just give milk or should I give colostrum still (I have some of that in the fridge)? This momma hasn't ever been milked (she's a first timer). Should I milk her--since she'll have 3 others to nurse, or should I just use replacer? Since I work outside the home everyday, replacer would be easier for us than fighting a first timer to let us milk, or to compete with the other three kids.
     
  6. witchysharon

    witchysharon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    171
    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2004
    The most critical time for the kid to have gotten colostrum was during the first 12 hours after birth (preferably during the first 2-4 hours in that time frame). An additional 12 hours (total 24) is recommended also, because after that the concentration of colostrum rapidly declines as more time passes. But seeing as this is the smallest kid, and it may not have gotten a lot of colostrum between all 4 kids competing to nurse, a couple bottles of the frozen colostrum sure won't hurt.

    Personally, i don't like replacer, although i know some people do and have used it with no problem. I think if you don't have fresh goats milk and don't want to milk this doe, whole cows milk from the store is better than replacer. Often, replacer will cause scours and there is some speculation 'may' cause Floppy Kid Syndrome. Have you bottle fed before? It may be difficult at first to get a kid that has nursed off the dam to take to a bottle. If you have not bottle raised Fiasco Farm has a helpful page on bottle feeding

    http://fiascofarm.com/goats/feeding.htm#bottle
     
  7. dosthouhavemilk

    dosthouhavemilk Well-Known Member Supporter

    Messages:
    2,174
    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2004
    Location:
    SE Ohio
    Colostrum is most beneifical int he first 12 hours. The stomach lining starts to close at birth and slowly closes over the first 12-24 hours of life. The antibodies from the colostrum pass through the openings in the lining and into the kid. After the lining is closed the antibodies don't really have anywhere to go, so it is basically useless to feed colostrum in that respect..
    However, colostrum also serves as a laxative to pass the meconium (first poop, generally a black tarry substance) and softens the manure. It also has a lot of energy for the kids. Colostrum is generally gone by about day 3-5.
    A two day old doesn't really have to have colostrum. If he were weak it wouldn't hurt, but you would probably be better off having froze the colostrum for future emergencies (unless you already have a fairly full freezer).
    Frankly, I dislike replacer of any kind for any animal (humans included). We use fresh raw cow's milk. We also have a cow dairy so it is readily available. With our calves that need to go on replacer they generally don't get it until after they are a week old. I wish it were a month but we do what we have to do. I can't help you much in the replacer/store bought cow's milk deal.
    Four kids is a lot for any doe, especially a first timer. She isn't going to be producing near as much as she will in a couple of years. It'd be somewhat shooting yourself in the foot to pull a kid to supplement and then to take the milk from the dam for the pulled kid.

    Good luck!
     
  8. Goat Freak

    Goat Freak Slave To Many Animals

    Messages:
    1,970
    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2005
    Location:
    Florida
    She had FOUR KIDS her first time! I thought that our Toria did good when she had three, and one was small but Tory is a tiny girl. Wow! I will see if I can find that recipe someone gave me to use for our orphand baby buckling. Hold on a sec. Bye.
     
  9. Goat Freak

    Goat Freak Slave To Many Animals

    Messages:
    1,970
    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2005
    Location:
    Florida
    Here it is, this thread has info on how to get the baby to eat and what to feed it. Post # 27 is the recipe that me and my mom used, and it worked great. Bye the way, the baby was a week old when his mama died, and the methods to get him to eat really worked and helped get him to see the bottle as a source of food. Good Luck. Bye. http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/showthread.php?t=108594
     
  10. witchysharon

    witchysharon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    171
    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2004
    Your kid can still derive some benefits from additional colostrum. (as the long as the frozen colostrum was collected from your goats during the first 0-6 hours after parturition) It certainly wil not hurt and could help since she may need an extra nutritional boost.

    Colostrum is beneficial to an animal even after 12-24 hours after birth. While it is true, they may not receive/absorb ALL of the benefits of colostrum after 24 hours, colostrum still contains many growth factors, improves liver function, boosts and enhances the immune system, aids in proper digestion, and assists in regeneration of the muscles and bones even in grown animals. Colostrum also has a cumulative effect, meaning the longer and more consistent the use, the greater the benefits. Colostrum is used as a nutritional and therapeutic supplement.

    "Dr. Richard Cockrum DVM, has been involved in the research of colostrum benefits for over forty years and is considered by many to be a leading authority in this field. Controlled studies at major research centers have demonstrated that daily supplementation with small doses of dry powder bovine colostrum results in a significant enhancement of the animal’s immune response to bacterial infections, such as mastitis. Similar treatment of calves resulted in significantly more lean body mass at slaughter and substantially decreased mortality by enhanced support to the immune system."