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Discussion Starter · #101 ·
Lets lock you in a room and let you live off of your magic hormones for a while and take some scale readings. I predict that math and science will win this argument, and pretty simple math and science at that.
Let's shoot you full of heroin for a couple of months and then lock you in a room. Bet you stop using heroin. Bet the withdrawal is, if not the worst experience, one of the worst experiences of your life. What causes withdrawal if not hormones?

Are you now free from being an addict?
 

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Discussion Starter · #102 ·
If Calories in > calories out, then weight goes up.

If calories out > calories in, then weight goes down.

It really is that simple, even if it isn't that easy.
So take 3 people, identical triplets. who all weigh the same.

One eats a paleo diet of 2000 calories a day (whole foods).
One eats a high-carb vegetarian diet of 2000 calories a day (whole foods).
One eats junkfood for 2000 calories a day.

They all have the same starting weight. They all perform the same exercise schedule.

After 90 days, will they all weigh the same weight?
 

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So take 3 people, identical triplets. who all weigh the same.

One eats a paleo diet of 2000 calories a day (whole foods).
One eats a high-carb vegetarian diet of 2000 calories a day (whole foods).
One eats junkfood for 2000 calories a day.

They all have the same starting weight. They all perform the same exercise schedule.

After 90 days, will they all weigh the same weight?
After a sufficient fasting period to let the guy with the most carbohydrates kidneys catch up with the extra water that was bound up in those carbohydrates, yes. The hydra part of carbohydrates means something to chemists.
 

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So take 3 people, identical triplets. who all weigh the same.

One eats a paleo diet of 2000 calories a day (whole foods).
One eats a high-carb vegetarian diet of 2000 calories a day (whole foods).
One eats junkfood for 2000 calories a day.

They all have the same starting weight. They all perform the same exercise schedule.

After 90 days, will they all weigh the same weight?
After a couple of large bowel movements from the vegetarian .......yes.
 

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So take 3 people, identical triplets. who all weigh the same.

One eats a paleo diet of 2000 calories a day (whole foods).
One eats a high-carb vegetarian diet of 2000 calories a day (whole foods).
One eats junkfood for 2000 calories a day.

They all have the same starting weight. They all perform the same exercise schedule.

After 90 days, will they all weigh the same weight?
Why it matter if they each weigh exactly the same if they've each lost weight? Success is seldom measured by someone else's achievements and even if you have 3 genetically similar humans, you still can't account for individual committment and level of activity.
 

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Discussion Starter · #107 ·
Why it matter if they each weigh exactly the same if they've each lost weight? Success is seldom measured by someone else's achievements and even if you have 3 genetically similar humans, you still can't account for individual committment and level of activity.
Because people are arguing it is simply calorie in/calorie out. If that was true, everyone should be responding of course they would all weigh the same. But no one is answering the question because they know the person on a junk food diet would weigh more which means it is more complicated than calories in/calories out.

Fats and carbs are broken down by different enzymes, are processed through the gut differently, and the metabolization process is different.
 

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Because people are arguing it is simply calorie in/calorie out. If that was true, everyone should be responding of course they would all weigh the same. But no one is answering the question because they know the person on a junk food diet would weigh more which means it is more complicated than calories in/calories out.

Fats and carbs are broken down by different enzymes, are processed through the gut differently, and the metabolization process is different.
They still won't weigh the same unless but it still doesn't mean it can't be done and realistically, 1 - 2 lbs per week is a healthy weight loss.
 
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Hey! Rationalize it all you want, if you are fat, and have circulatory, breathing, and joint problems it is not my responsibility to enable you because you do not care enough about yourself to be healthy.
I exercise, I watch what I eat, and take Geritol (;)). It is not easy but I feel it is important.
You get to decide your priorities. That is the "pursuit of happiness" part of the constitution.
I get to pursue my happiness too, and there is no mask in that scenario right now.
.
Sorry. You want a mask, you wear one.
 

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So take 3 people, identical triplets. who all weigh the same.

One eats a paleo diet of 2000 calories a day (whole foods).
One eats a high-carb vegetarian diet of 2000 calories a day (whole foods).
One eats junkfood for 2000 calories a day.

They all have the same starting weight. They all perform the same exercise schedule.

After 90 days, will they all weigh the same weight?
Way too many other variables.
 

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Exercise for losing weight doesn't work because it is almost physically impossible to exercise enough to have major weight loss.
In and of itself, no. Not really. However, there are so many other benefits that exercise offers that will help with that goal. It's a valuable part an overall healthy lifestyle.


Diets typically don't work because of hormones.
Hormones are effected by diet. Whether or not someone is achieving the results they seek from a diet is usually due to the individuals approach. Diets fail due to poor dietary choices.
 

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It makes little difference if you take them separately or together. There is very little evidence to show that diet and exercise result in long-term weight loss. Very few people are able to maintain a weight loss for 5 years. Even with a gastric sleeve, almost half the people regain the lost weight within 5 years.
An individual in need of a gastric sleeve? Maybe it's the person more than the diet. These people aren't known for their will power and "stick to it" attitude.
 

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I've eaten junk food and lost weight. Doesn't matter what you eat. Doesn't matter how fast your metabolism is. If you eat less than your maintenance calories, you will lose weight. Types of foods can drastically impact the amount of fluid you retain. Fluid doesn't matter. Fat cells are what matters. You need to weigh yourself at the same situation each day, and track progress over months. Make adjustments as needed. You can eat Pizza one night and gain five pounds. Carbs and salt will make you retain a lo of water. They don't make you gain that much in weight of fat cells. Unless you give up the diet because you are addicted to carbs and you have the scale reading as proof. You can learn to lose weight, but not if you deny principles of physics, at that point there is no hope for you to do anything but waste money on fads and shams and die fat from a disease that doesn't bother healthy people all that much.
 

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Because people are arguing it is simply calorie in/calorie out. If that was true, everyone should be responding of course they would all weigh the same.
Variations in the rate at which people lose weight doesn't negate the calorie in/calorie out point.
 

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An individual in need of a gastric sleeve? Maybe it's the person more than the diet. These people aren't known for their will power and "stick to it" attitude.
I have a cousin that had something like that done. Sure, she dropped a lot of weight the first year after the surgery but slowly gained all of it back because she refused to make the necessary lifestyle changes.

My son's doctor keeps pushing for him to get metabolic surgery. But as I said during the appt, if he can't change his bad habits for good ones, the surgery is pretty useless in the long run.
 

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I have a cousin that had something like that done. Sure, she dropped a lot of weight the first year after the surgery but slowly gained all of it back because she refused to make the necessary lifestyle changes.

My son's doctor keeps pushing for him to get metabolic surgery. But as I said during the appt, if he can't change his bad habits for good ones, the surgery is pretty useless in the long run.
And therein lies the problem.
 

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Because people are arguing it is simply calorie in/calorie out. If that was true, everyone should be responding of course they would all weigh the same. But no one is answering the question because they know the person on a junk food diet would weigh more which means it is more complicated than calories in/calories out.

Fats and carbs are broken down by different enzymes, are processed through the gut differently, and the metabolization process is different.
Fat is not the enemy(not saying you said that, just putting that out there). I switched to Keto (not a diet but a lifestyle change) in April of this year. I've lost 40 pounds so far (and I do not count calories). I have more energy than I've had in a long time, and folks around me can see the difference (and it has been positive not negative comments). The issue isn't with fat in the diet but the excessive amount of carbs, which unfortunately the Standard American Diet (SAD) is full of. To say it is easy to not drink soda (I don't drink diet soda either), sweet tea, and sugary drinks would be a lie- but after the first few weeks the cravings go away.

And before anyone says Keto isn't sustainable long term, there are lots of ways to have a "more normal" feeling of eating while staying within Keto. It is all about the effort one puts into changing their dietary lifestyle and eating habits. But then that is true with about any change one does.
 

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I have lost 50 pounds since March, and it was basically switching to the American Diabetes Association "plate" model. In detail, my main steps were:

1. Went from drinking 4 liters of skim milk per week, down to 2 and switched to lactose free. Also eliminated all cheese from diet.

2. Stopped drinking 2 liters of fruit juice per week. I had been under the impression that cutting mango juice with water would be better for me than soda. Not so much. Now drink more water.

3. Got rid of all deep fried foods. All desserts are verboten.

4. Every meal, 50% of my plate is salad and vegetables. About 25% is protein (lots of fish and chicken, beef maybe once a week, pork twice). 25% of the plate is carbs. Also stopped going back for seconds.

5. For the carbs, i replaced almost all of them with more complex carbs/lower glycemic load (yams, oatmeal, brown rice, etc.) Bread is now limited to one piece of toast a week, and I get a small potato once a week. For an Irishman, that is quite a transition.

The first month was kind of rough, but once I settled in, I found that this strategy was sustainable over the long term. My wife has been a star in finding new forms of salad to keep it interesting.
 

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Discussion Starter · #119 ·
Fat is not the enemy(not saying you said that, just putting that out there). I switched to Keto (not a diet but a lifestyle change) in April of this year. I've lost 40 pounds so far (and I do not count calories). I have more energy than I've had in a long time, and folks around me can see the difference (and it has been positive not negative comments). The issue isn't with fat in the diet but the excessive amount of carbs, which unfortunately the Standard American Diet (SAD) is full of. To say it is easy to not drink soda (I don't drink diet soda either), sweet tea, and sugary drinks would be a lie- but after the first few weeks the cravings go away.

And before anyone says Keto isn't sustainable long term, there are lots of ways to have a "more normal" feeling of eating while staying within Keto. It is all about the effort one puts into changing their dietary lifestyle and eating habits. But then that is true with about any change one does.
Keto, especially meat-based keto, is not a good diet for everyone any more than a vegetarian diet is good for everyone. If a person doesn't create enough stomach acid and enough fat digestive enzymes or doesn't metabolize fat efficiently, then a keto diet is probably the wrong diet for them.

There is still an open question about saturated fats and how much is OK. Through several years of lab testing, I know I have to greatly limit saturated fat. My guess is somewhere between 5% and 10% of the population should not eat a keto diet, especially one high in saturated fat. Looking at an original Paleo-type diet, it would have been substantially lower in saturated fat than today's Paleo or keto diets. Wild animals were lean with much less fat, not marbled with saturated fat like today's meat is.

I think the one thing everyone can agree on is to eat primarily minimally processed foods and avoid processed foods as much as possible.
 

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And therein lies the problem.
If she would have made the lifestyle changes first, she might have lost the weight without the surgery. Too many people see stomach surgery as a quick fix. Even my son's doctor who pushed it didn't push the diet change as a first option.

I know for a fact that lifestyle changes can be extremely difficult. I'm still trying to force myself to drink more water and less soda. It's been a challenge to say the least. But I am not having to buy 12 or more 2 liters every few days now. I'm still on the one I opened Monday.
 
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