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Discussion Starter #1
Today I picked up a mini nubian buckling, he was born in the spring.
He was bottom of the pecking order and didn't get what he needed, his owner was in the process of bringing him back to health after realizing what was happening.
as she gave him more food he got scours, when i picked him up his poo had normalized, i checked, but I also saw pieces of tapeworm.
She dewormed him with ivermectin and gave him Red Cell and a b-12 shot before I brought him home.
I checked his eyes... WHITE.
Completely drained of color.

I am keeping him on my property, but away from my healthy dairy goats. Tonight he sleeps alone in the workshop in a kennel to protect him and everyone else.

I would like to know how long it will take to bring his iron back up....? and is there a good way to do this more quickly? I saw injectable iron at Tractor Supply or the 1 gallon red cell, which is just too much! So, any thoughts on increasing iron would be great.

Also, Would you worm again in 10 days?

Tomorrow I plan on giving him so probiotics as well.
He has a healthy appetite, tasting lots of plants, loving poison ivy and eating hay quite well, not really into the pellets though I got him to eat a few.

Any wisdom would be appreciated. I am known for bringing sick chickens back from near dead, but this is literally a whole other animal. :)
Thanks!
 

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I would worm him with Valbazen. You need a white wormer to get rid of tapes. You ca also use Safeguard but you'll need to triple the dose for his weight & do it 3 days in a row I believe.
A fecal would also be really good so you'd know what other worms that he has that are causing him problems. Ivermectin might not be the right wormer for the parasite problem.
 

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It's not just iron, it's a lack of blood cells. Those take a while to build, it can take a month or two to be fully out of an anemic state.

I'd get a fecal done, first. Find out if he still has worms. If he does, the ivermectin did not work and I would use a different dewormer such as cydectin or prohibit at proper doses, then dose again in 14 days or so.

How big is he? A well grown dairy kid should gain at least 10lbs/month in addition to birth weight. 8lb kid should be 18lbs at 1 mon, 28lbs at 2 mon etc. This is minimal... Animals less than that had high parasite issues and/or poor feed management/quality. Another one many don't think about if the animal doesn't get diarrhea is coccidia. However, the main symptom is not diarrhea but stunting. You'll get these skinny tiny kids that are well fed and should be growing, but don't. Finally they usually do get diarrhea or survive and stay small, and never are able to digest well because the coccidia damages the gut so extensively.

Safeguard is good at 3-5x the dose I believe for tapes, for 3 days. Another one you can use is a horse dewormer called Zimectrin Gold, which has ivermectin and praziquantel I believe - will get tapes and stomach worms.

Dose for all dewormers and target worms are here: http://www.dairygoatinfo.com/f28/worming-worms-wormers-21389/

Good idea keeping him separate, worms can transmit as can many other diseases. I do 3 month biosecurity isolations here. On young stock, I generally keep them separate until 6 months of age, so they can be tested before introduction to the main herd.

Whether or not he's worth it to breed is another question altogether. :)
 
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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
It's not just iron, it's a lack of blood cells. Those take a while to build, it can take a month or two to be fully out of an anemic state.

I'd get a fecal done, first. Find out if he still has worms. If he does, the ivermectin did not work and I would use a different dewormer such as cydectin or prohibit at proper doses, then dose again in 14 days or so.

How big is he? A well grown dairy kid should gain at least 10lbs/month in addition to birth weight. 8lb kid should be 18lbs at 1 mon, 28lbs at 2 mon etc. This is minimal... Animals less than that had high parasite issues and/or poor feed management/quality. Another one many don't think about if the animal doesn't get diarrhea is coccidia. However, the main symptom is not diarrhea but stunting. You'll get these skinny tiny kids that are well fed and should be growing, but don't. Finally they usually do get diarrhea or survive and stay small, and never are able to digest well because the coccidia damages the gut so extensively.

Safeguard is good at 3-5x the dose I believe for tapes, for 3 days. Another one you can use is a horse dewormer called Zimectrin Gold, which has ivermectin and praziquantel I believe - will get tapes and stomach worms.

Dose for all dewormers and target worms are here: http://www.dairygoatinfo.com/f28/worming-worms-wormers-21389/

Good idea keeping him separate, worms can transmit as can many other diseases. I do 3 month biosecurity isolations here. On young stock, I generally keep them separate until 6 months of age, so they can be tested before introduction to the main herd.

Whether or not he's worth it to breed is another question altogether. :)
Thanks for this. I went ahead and started with safeguard today. Also bought injectable iron.

In regards to weight, since he is a mini nubian i think it might be difficult to determine which genes he got.... And since i don't know his birth weight i wonder what he should weigh. He should weigh more than he goes i know that!

Yes, breeding is a whole other matter and not even on the table right now.
 

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I'd discuss dosing/frequency of injectable iron with a veterinarian. I"m not familiar with its use.

I missed that he's a mini nubian... you're right, it does vary with what genetics they got. And probably with what generation and genetics used to start with.
 
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Discussion Starter #7
So, definitely seeing tapes and barberpoles. GROSS.

Kids poo is clumpy, still peleted, but clumpy. Can i assume this is a side effect of the intestinal clearing and adaptation to a new diet?

I gave two small injections of iron, plus the first day he got red cell. Ive read to do three days and then wait a week to not overload the liver.

Today is the final day of safeguard.
So worm again in 10 days?

Also need to find some more b12... And ill do 5 days of corid when i find it (we just moved and i cant find all my barn stuff!).
 

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Good advice and good job. Coupled with patience (lots of patience), he should respond. I got B12 tablets at Walmart as an aid to help build cells...pop a couple into a marshmallow.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks everyone! He is responding so so well!
He is more energetic, eats well, and i think is slowly gaining weight.
Im giving 1/2 cc iron every other day, today will be last day of that.

Have also given probiotics in water and b-12 in the form of spirulina which is also high in iron.

His poo is healthy and normal and his urine is now clear, before it was really dark.

He is quite happy to eat wild onions all day and lay in the sun as needed. I expect that at this rate within a few weeks he will have put on weight, and be frolicking like a buckling should!

I do plan on repeating the worming end of this week so that we continue on a good track.

He is still isolated from the rest of goats.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
UPDATE...
He has now had two rounds of deworming and is on a three day treatment for coccidiosis, just in case. He has responded very well, with periods of looser stool, but everything is firmed up ad he has a healthy appetite . His eye membranes are no longer grey, but a very light blush pink. This course of treatment has worked nicely! i may continue to iron at 1 cc per week.... But at this point things are improving and i'm happy with the results.
He is still separate until he is at full strength and shows improvement over a longer period of time.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
At what point is it a problem for him to be eating grain?
On one hand he needs to gain weight, on the other hand he may be at risk for urinary calculi being a buckling.
He is gaining and doing well, and ive been trying not to over grain him, but how much is too much? He has hay and forage as well.
 

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As long as you feed enough alfalfa along with the grain to make the Ca:p ratio at least a 2:1, you shouldn't have any problems with UC. If you are worried, you can also feed a mineral or feed with ammonium chloride in it. I probably wouldn't feed more than like 1/2 a lb twice a day.
 

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So by way of update.... We went on vacation for two weeks and when i checked on him when i got back his famacha score was not good. Paler than when i left. I saw tape segments in his poo. So, here we go again!
This time i ordered the Valbazen,which is quite expensive.... He has had his first dose.
I read that it should be done every 10 days for a month to get all the tape stages... But i cant remember where i saw this.

What is your experience with valbazen and how should i proceed from here?
 

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How old is he now? Tapes aren't causing the anemia. Stomach worms are. You'll want to make sure you're getting any stomach worms too.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
i also wormed with ivermectin last week, which apparently worms may have resistance to. He is about 10 mo old. If it didnt work, then this should take care of them as well.
 
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