[jemma weller]

I bought a great pyrenees 8 week old female puppy, and have had her about 6 weeks now... From the beginning she had been brought up kinda around the house and children, until i got her and kept her with my goats, and my other great pyrenees dog... ( Badger my adult male great pyrenees is awesome, and is great with my goats ) So i thought he could teach her a lot of what he knows, but at first all she wanted to do was come up to the house, and play with the chiwawa we have... anyhow every time she would come up to the house i would pull her back down to the barn and tie her up for awhile, before sending her over to the goats again (at night she's shut in a pen in the barn with an older goat kid, and she has food in the barn in the evening till morning ) from the very first time i put her with the goats, she has been very aggressive towards them every time they butt her a bit, now most my goats don't mind her, except a couple will still butt her a bit if she doesn't move out the way..... when one of my goats butt her she will bite, snapp, and howl/growl in their face until they back off..... Also she will do the same to me if i pull her for discipline, at first i thought i'd just ignore her biting and growling, but it was getting so bad i decided i had to do something to her when she did that to me, so i started pinning her down every time she started biting at me.... until she stopped..... anyhow to make a long story short she is still very aggressive to my goats when they butt her, and since i started pinning her down when she snaps at me she doesn't do it as much, but sometimes she'll still become very aggressive when i pull her "like when she's chased a chicken, etc...." and today she actually managed to bite me pretty hard... I can get her to follow my goats and my other great pyrenees now.... but it seems like she's just to aggressive, and won't bond to my goats, and she does tend to bark at kids when they have food she wants
Is it normal for GP puppies to be like that?? She was one of the most playful, biting your shoes type of personality of the litter, and her mom you could see could be a little bit aggressive... But i really am not sure, i've never trained a GP dog from a puppy....

Badger (my other great pyrenees is now about 5 years old and i love him, he's pretty gentle and loves the goats, he can be quite shy to people he doesn't know, but he's very cuddly to people he knows It seems so unlike him to be aggressive, unlike my new puppy...

anyhow not sure what to do... do you think i should just find a new home for her, as she isn't aggressive when you don't discipline her for anything, and she likes being petted and attention...
As you can see, i really don't know what to do with her, lol... any suggestions on what you would do??

Thank you so much

 

[CountryMom22]

First of all, I freely admit that I do not, nor have I ever owned an LGD. That being said, take this with a grain of salt.

She is aggressive towards the goats because they are too rough with her. She is too young to be subjected to rough goats. Puppies should be started with baby animals, not adults. You can't blame her for being aggressive if it hurts every time a goat gets near her.

Aggression towards humans should not be tolerated. You need a professional to help with this before any more bad habits get ingrained.

Just my two cents. Best of luck.

 

[motdaugrnds]

Goodness. You certainly have your work cut out for you if you intend to keep her.

First off, no LGD should be taken from its "working" mother until it is around 3 months of age. And your pup was apparently not even with "working parents" but was mostly around people.

What you're seeing in your pup is a very GOOD dog. It is simply scared of its new surroundings and is doing the best it can to defend itself. You wouldn't want an LGD that will not defend itself! Your letting the goats butt her is not wise! That pup is too young to be expected to know what to do in such situations. (I'm wondering how your older LGD is relating to her. Who is protecting that pup?)

She is a "puppy" (a baby) and needs someone to "play" with. That is why she tries to get to your house to play with that smaller dog you have. Your dragging her back to the barn is not recognizing her needs; so why should she recognize yours? (Sorry, but not recognizing the needs of a puppy is quite irritating to me.) Yes, it can be difficult...boy did I have a time with my Karakachan...however, it must be done!

You dragged her away from her puppy play, tied her up (doubt she even knows why she got tied up), then put her back with the goats that butt her. Golly!

It sounds to me as though you are actually teaching her to be aggressive even though that is not what you want. Does she actually have an alternative if she wants to protect herself?

Now she has actually bit you and that tells me your energy is not one she recognizes as safe for her, i.e. calm and assertive.

If you want to keep that pup, you will need to start over with her. That means you need to do something that will make and keep yourself very calm when you are around that pup. You need to make sure she is NOT put in a position where she has to defend herself...until you have taught her what the "correct" way of doing so is. You need to gain her trust!

Were she mine and given where she came from (no lgd parental training), I would go ahead and let her bond with me as I taught her she is safe and what is expected of her. I would not...not...turn her loose with the goats or chickens but would have her on a leash while with them correcting her (firmly and calmly) at the slightest "intent" to misbehave.

Others in here may have other ideas and even think differently than I; so your gathering all the information you can would be wise. And though my post probably sounds harsh to you, please know I admire your willingness to get help from others before you rehome such a dog.

 

[Mommyto5]

We purchased a Great Pyrenees ten years ago from someone on this site, and it was one of the best things we ever did! (Sadly, just last Sunday, we had to put him down, and I really miss him) He was used to being around goats when we got him, even born in a goat pasture, but when I brought him home, I let him sleep in the house for two nights, and he decided that's where he wanted to be after that! My husband would tease me and say that I ruined him, but in all honestly, it was probably the best thing for him. Once he grew up, he settled-in to his role perfectly. At night, he patrolled our farm, keeping the chickens and goats safe....and guarding the house as well. He was able to be around ALL of our animals, and was never aggressive or inappropriate. Our cats actually slept on him....and we once had a duck that would hang-out on the porch with him. I agree with a lot of what the last poster said. I'd encourage you to start over. I wouldn't put her in with the goats alone. The point is for her to protect them, and if they're hurting her, why would she want to do that? I think she'll grow into her role, she's just young. Be patient with her, don't force it. I believe her instincts will take over as she matures and grows to want to please you. I'd expose her to everything, but with the security of you being there. After our experience with our Great Pyr. I think they're one of the greatest breeds on earth! I hope you find that too!!!

 

[Agriculture]

It is a more complicated situation that needs actual observation of what is going on between you and this puppy, in order to give an accurate assessment of what the problem is and how to correct it. It sounds like it may be a combination of your lack of experience and this puppy's temperament and lack of training. As recommended, your best option is to seek help from a professional in person, preferably one with LGD experience or at least the understanding that some of the desirable traits of a good LGD are not necessarily those which one would want or encourage in the average pet.

Some LGD puppies are born with the temperament which makes them take to their intended job naturally, with little training, as is befitting their genetics. Others can come to fill the roll with some or even extensive training, and some simply do not have what it takes to ever be a good LGD. This is not to give you a convenient excuse to simply give up if things don't work out with only minimal effort. It takes a lot of knowledge and experience to really understand when it is the dog's fault and when it is a failure of training. Just understand that guarding tendency like any other trait is subject to the laws and percentages of genetics, which says that not all individuals of a planned breeding will have the desired traits, no matter how intensively it has been selected for in the breed or background.

No matter what, aggression toward you and your immediate family members should never be tolerated in any dog, no matter it's purpose. If you don't have good temperament you don't have anything, and what good is it to have even the best LGD in the world if you can't work with or around it in safety yourself?

As much as I like Cesar Milan, and his results speak for themselves, he is also an entertainment personality who happens to be a dog trainer. His hook to draw in the gullible and the foolish, who watch TV more than anyone, is this mysterious energy crap that he pushes. Yes, it describes the proper attitude of calm assertiveness that a good trainer must have, but too many people get drawn in by the mystical nature of the concept to really get it, and since they come to think that they aren't gifted with the same super powers they fail in training, without realizing that they just lack knowledge and the desire to acquire it.

 

[mnn2501]

Jemma
Sorry to say here that YOU are the problem, you've done just about everything exactly the opposite of what should have happened. I'm not faulting you, as I've been you in the past. Luckily I realized I was in over my head and got in with a professional dog trainer who set me straight before it was too late. (Dog trainers are actually dog owner trainers)

Its a baby, stop tying it up and stop putting it in with the goats, it doesn't know what to do.

All it knows is that you are being mean to it, tying it up for some reason unknown to it, then putting it in with the goats that head butt it, then when she defends herself you pin it down-- my gosh what it must think of you! I'd bite you too if you tried that with me .

Let it play for now which should combat the aggressiveness, but get in touch with a good trainer right away. There are proper ways and improper ways to train any dog including an LGD. Also keep in mind, large breed pups need lots of exercise too, especially one taken away from Mom before she learned bite inhibition, exercise (and lots of it) cured my Catahoula's biting.

You can do this but you need to learn how before its too late and you MUST do it immediatly

 

[mnn2501]

Jemma

How is it going now, 2 weeks after you posted?

 

[jemma weller]

Hi All,

Sorry not to get reply sooner....
Tessa is doing Way better!! It looks like she'll be staying she is now not being aggressive to me, has been a lot better around the chickens, is bonding to Badger my other Great Pyrenees, and has been following the goats quite a bit to!

I know I'm probably a lot of the problem, but I do think she has a more aggressive side to her as well, even with our other dogs.
About two weeks ago now she had been sooo aggressive to me if I did anything to her, in the end, after she had bite me and was trying to bite me for taking her away from some food, I held her down, and smacked her (not to hard, just hard enough to be not to nice) until she stopped trying to bite me, and she became submissive... now since then she has been way more respectful and when she dose get pushy(usually around food), I make her lay down until she puts her tummy and leg up, and snaps out of being pushy.
I have also been working on like "motdaugrnds" said on being relaxed and firm around her, as I know I was often in a rush when doing something with her.

I guess I was thinking when I got her that she would be naturally more of a shy, submissive dog, as my other great Pyrenees is so gentle. What has kinda confused me is the way like when a goat would go to butt her, she could just move away from it but instead she seemed to often stand her ground and bite and growl at it until it stopped...

I know it seems so mean not letting her play with our chawawa but if I let her do that, I'm pretty sure she'll grow up to be a yard dog (which is what I don't want) As I want her to learn to follow the goats, as we have a few hundred acres that my goats wander around free range, Badger my other GP follows them around and is a great dog!!



The one problem I have right now with Tessa is, when she gets excited, she'll often start jumping on and biting the baby goat kids, I know she's kinda playing but she can get pretty rough... she's not hurting them, but if she does it when she's older..... what would you do about it..? do you think she'll grow out of it?

I know she's a puppy and needs to play, but it's just knowing what to let her do..! lol



anyhow thank all you guy's for your time and advice!!

 

[motdaugrnds]

I don't think you need to worry about Tessa's being a yard dog just because you permit her to play with your smaller dog. Having another dog to play with will stop a lot of that playful behavior she is doing with your goats. (Also, she has probably already learned a goat can hurt her and, thus, the growling when butted. You will need to correct her for this without getting angry at her.) Remember she is still a baby and needs to know it is ok for her to play...just not with goats!

I brought home a Karakachan; and as a young pup she wanted to play. I let her play with my other dog, a labradore. This did not stop her from becoming a great LGD guarding the goats & fowl. It did give her an outlet for all that puppy energy!

I urge you to give her an opportunity to release that puppy energy in a way that does NOT upset you now while she is very young. If you don't, then when she starts going thru adolescents, you will wish you had.

 

[CountryMom22]

Ditto, she needs an outlet for all that puppy energy. And another dog will see it for what it is, a playful friend. A goat kid might get hurt, by accident.

Not to mention a tired puppy, makes for a happy owner! If the house dog is happy playing with her, let them play. Tessa will learn a lot about being a dog from the other dog, thus making her a better dog in the end.

 

[antietamgw]

Glad things are working out!

 

[wintrrwolf]

Glad it's working better for you. I did notice in your post the more gentle LGD is the male and I find that here at my place it is the same. My male though younger than my female is more apt to take care of the babies born here, my female is more aggressive and I did have issues with leash training, control and some aggression towards the goats BUT my goats didn't like dogs either so in training I also had to reprimand some of my goats as well.
I am ALPHA sometimes it is exhausting but every critter I have here knows this.

 

[Thankful Heart]

I have Great Pyrenees Chickens ducks geese goats pigs and a steer cat small dog
I have found the "pups" are best contained first thing in the morning when they are the most puppy energetic. I feed them in morning and confine them in their run= they have been guarding all night with adult dogs. Once I have morning chores of feeding and watering everyone I let them out and stay with them redirecting them if they get too boisterous with any animal. and correcting the aggressive animals that go after pups. I really keep them out of pigs area. The steer is not aggressive and likes the company. I have found if ALL my communication is positive the dogs are so very responsive to everything we call them to do. When the behavior is unwanted. I still keep positive kind behavior and voice as I chain up the dog - to contain the problem behavior. They are Very Smart. They will do things that you think is aggressive to your animals but you will se they are often moving them away from trouble, Like the Timber Rattler found in the feed room. My female that was nursing pups tried for three days to unveil a problem in the feed room when I was in there she was looking all around I was pulling apart the stacks of stored boxes and tools to help her find whatever it was I thought a rat. She smelled an Oak snake that was found in a bin with small chicken feed dishes in it. The oak snake was found after the Timber rattler who was joining the oak snake apparently for the baby chicks in next room. No chicks were harmed by either. The dog helped us know we had a problem and we cleaned it up. GO VIOLET! She was raised in a house in a neighborhood around all neighborhood kids on a 70X100 lot until she was 2yrs and we moved to our land.
They want to be part of your world If you reward good behavior and swiftly stop and correct wrong behavior. You Must spend time with them and direct them. I kept a horse lead on mine that they drug around for a while to slow them down and allow me to get a hold and make corrections on the fly throughout the day. Later I put a heavy chain with a log on the end to try to teach them not to go out of fenced area. They will take a chain with a log for a journey! They are Family dogs that will see your other animals as family too when you show them that the animals are special to you they will protect them. stick with your dogs they are your friends . If they are not treated as friends they will go find a friend.

 

[muleskinner2]

She is a baby, she is doing what babies do. Was she raised with livestock? Taking a pup away from it's mother at six or eight weeks is stupid. Just because they can eat solid food, doesn't mean they have learned any manners yet.

Build a run along side the goat pen. Or even tie her next to the pen. She will learn to accept the goats without the danger of anyone getting hurt. As she gets older she will begin to protect them. Now she is thinking about playing and eating, protecting will come later.

As for all of the "experts" who say you should never tie a dog. Every nomadic, herding, shepherding culture for the past ten thousand years have tied dogs. Get over it. My Anatolian Shepherd is tied next to my goat pen right now. Yesterday morning I heard her give her "go away" bark, when I looked out the window she was standing nose to nose with a Antelope.

No fence will hold her. I would rather have her tied next to the goats, than have her dead on the road.

You are going to have to teach her the manners her mother never got the chance to.