noisey neighbor

Discussion in 'Homesteading Questions' started by Doc, Feb 8, 2004.

  1. Doc

    Doc Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I need advice. I live in a designated area called the rural buffer. On a farm out in the county. I have a couple of neighbors, one of which is in his mid30s, going on 15. He is emotionally an adolescent and doesn't seem to mature through his years. He is single, and somewhat creepy -- smiling on the outside, control freak on the inside. I have seen him sic his chow dog on my cats -- that kind of creepy.

    Last night he had a party (along with his other 30+ housemate) that lasted until 4am. All outside, with a live band, with all screaming and yelling. Yes, at 4am. Not to mention cars coming and going all that time. This morning, I find cars parked on my property (nine cars left from the party and all the people in a three-room house!). Last night, I came very close to calling the sheriff, but didn't, thinking that I would call his landlord and talk to him first (who is a friend and lives down the road).

    My friend is a wuss. My fear is that he will do nothing, and that I will be stuck. As you can guess, these parties will continue, (this isn't the first one) and imagine what they'll be like once the weather turns warm!! This one occurred with the temperature below freezing.

    BTW: I tried to block out the noise. Pulled a fan up by the bed that has a loud hum to it, but it didn't do any good. The sounds were too loud. The party wound down around 4:30 and I was awake at 7 -- normal time. I don't get to sleep all day long and have to do my work on less than 3 hours' sleep.

    I want to know what you all would do if this were your problem?? Thanks.
     
  2. Mike in Ohio

    Mike in Ohio Well-Known Member

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    I would have gone over and asked him to tone it down. If he didn't then I would have gone over and TOLD him to tone it down or I'd be calling the sheriff.

    As far as the cars, I would have gone over and told him that if they weren't removed immediately I would assume they are abandoned and be using them for target practice.

    I'd also tell your friend that his tenant is being a nuisance. If he isn't willing to address the issue then he isn't a friend.

    Another option is to use the Shrek (Jay) method. Buy the property from your friend and kick the nisance out on his butt. We just bought out our nuisance neighbor (Signed the agreement Friday and close in 30 days).

    Mike
     

  3. Shrek

    Shrek Singletree Moderator Staff Member

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    Try an alternative approach. Either establish a neighborhood watch or join your sheriffs reserve. Either way, make sure that the unpleasant neighbors and their landlord are both away that there will be a increased enforcement factor in the area. A nice thing about renters is that they arnt tied down by an investment and when they start throwing parties that end with vehicle searches, impoundings and neighborhood lights on drills, eventually the parties arnt attended and the renters feel its time to move on.
     
  4. almostthere

    almostthere Well-Known Member

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    Do you have a Noise Ordinance in your area? Or is that mainly in highly populated areas? Go to yahoo or google an type in Noise Ordinance and your county/state. If its available you will be able to use this as ammunition the next time you need to make a call about noise.
     
  5. almostthere

    almostthere Well-Known Member

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    Oh yeah and I also agree with the "Shrek method "
     
  6. moopups

    moopups In Remembrance

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    Nine cars full of partiers, all crashing in a 3 room house, they must be a very friendly group to do that. Would this be a good time to display your loudest available oprah recordings in their direction? Especually when they are all trying to sleep it off? The hint may be taken.
     
  7. Shrek

    Shrek Singletree Moderator Staff Member

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    Mike,
    Buyout is effective , but it is only the last resort due to the expense. :)
     
  8. Mike in Ohio

    Mike in Ohio Well-Known Member

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    Just had a thought. Are you friendly with any of the sheriffs deputies? Invite them over for a cup of coffee while the party is going on. You haven't called in a complaint but I have a feeling that things will get taken care of.

    Mike
     
  9. kathy H

    kathy H kathyh

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    I like Mitchs [ moo pops] idea :haha:
     
  10. bgak47

    bgak47 Well-Known Member

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    Call the cops! 0430 in the morning & cars on your property is just a little too much. I used to like to party when I was that age, but we made an effort to invite our neighbors to the festivities, or assure that we didn't bother them after 10pm. Common curtesy goes a long way towards making good neighbors.
     
  11. Mike in Ohio

    Mike in Ohio Well-Known Member

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    You are right about it being an expensive option Jay. The only reason we are able to (justify) do it is that we were planning on building a barn (cash) and this parcel has 3 barns. This does mean we take on some more debt (sigh) but we figure if we don't buy it now it will be a lot more expensive the next time around. It's unbelievable how much money we could have saved if we had bought it the first time it was available.

    It works though. The "bad" neighbor didn't like the fact that the gravel road isn't plowed and he doesn't have a 4 wheel drive vehicle.

    Anyhoo, I guess a good attitude about things like nuisance neighbors is that this too shall pass....one way or another.

    Mike
     
  12. Sounds like it was one hell of a party. Too bad you were not invited. Might try going over with a case of beer next time and asking if you can borrow some ice to keep it cool. Sort of the old, if you can beat them, join them philosophy.
    On a more serious note, noise pollution and restrictions are a real pain in the neck. I run a part time tree service and usually like to get going as early as possible. In town, rules state that we cant start till 7am on Monday through Saturday and 9am on Sunday. We usually are on site at 7am and start the disk chipper at 7:01 and I have had numerous people come out and start screaming. Too bad you can’t hear them over the din of the disk chipper.
    At my own place (zoned farm) we will start cutting firewood at first light in the summer and will work till it’s too dark to see. Run both chainsaws and screaming diesels at 5am. During hay season tractors will run very late and start cutting very early. The yuppie next-door neighbors don’t exactly like the noise but are smart enough to keep quiet about it. Last year my neighbors hosed a wedding and I allowed the 500 some odd wedding guests to park their cars in my field. They partied till 4am. No big deal.
    Always best not to make war with your neighbors. Try to work something out.
     
  13. Mike in Ohio

    Mike in Ohio Well-Known Member

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    Unregistered,

    There are certain noises you expect in an a farming area. That's a little different than a bad neighbor. At the very least the neighbor could have told his other neighbors that he was planning a party. Parking the cars just added insult to injury.

    At some point I'm sure DW and I will throw a large party at our place. When we do I'll take steps to minimize any issues with the neighbors. I'll invite the neighbors to come by. After a certain hour folks will have to keep the noise down. Fortunately we have enough property and the way it is shaped would help keep noise down. Plenty of parking too.

    I think the point is that an inconsiderate neighbor is an inconsiderate neighbor. I agree that you shouldn't "declare war" on a neighbor lightly. On the other hand, sometimes there aren't a lot of alternatives. I'm sure your neighbors ASKED if they could park cars in your field. Would your attitude be so nonchalant if you walked out and found cars parked without your being asked (by a neighbor you clearly didn't get along with)?

    It's clear that the issue isn't just the party. If someone intentionally sicced their dog on my animals I'd put it's head on a pike by the front gate. It would appear by the description that the person doesn't care about any negative impacts

    I generally mind my own business and tread lightly when it comes to my neighbors. Based on the circumstances presented I don't think I would have any (ethical) issues forcing them to follow the letter of the law and some modicum of following common courtesy.

    Mike
     
  14. Doc

    Doc Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Thanks to all who replied, even though a few are a bit too extreme. If I did anything negative, my neighbor would retaliate. Big time. I try to stay clear of him and mind my own business.

    I like the idea of the neighbor being labeled as a "nuisance". Indeed. That description might work on my friend (his landlord).....to wit,

    However, I did talk to his landlord today who assures me that things will be different (I'll believe it when I see it). Apparently, the lease is about to expire, and he is going to insert a clause in the lease about parties. I am going to ask him to also include a clause about parking.

    But, I also told him that there will not be a next time: it won't get that far -- that he will be waked up at 2am, and then the sheriff will be called. I also called the sheriff's dept and talked to a deputy, who told me that I should have called them last night.

    We have a neighborhood watch association, such as it is. If it were effective, then the Shenk (?) method might work. Unfortunately, out here, the neighbors are only concerned about themselves (there are a few renters around).

    BTW: I HAVE asked my friend (almost to the point of begging) to let me buy this place. He doesn't seem to want to, but I wonder if there could be an incentive. Like: a certain amount of cash?

    Any ideas about that? That way, I could renovate it, get this guy out of there, and get someone in there who won't throw parties til 4 am (or if they do, they're in deep doo doo). I'm serious: I would like to buy his property asap. Any advice would be great.

    Thanks again.
     
  15. TXlightningbug

    TXlightningbug Well-Known Member

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    This guy is likely to sic the dog on you if you try to bully him. He's the type you use the law against, loudly saying outside where the idiot can hear that you wouldn't have called the sheriff except he showed disrespect to you. I used that line against drug dealers who were sitting all over my car and ripped off the antennae to make a cocaine pipe. It worked. They suddenly were protecting my car.
    Your friend is a wuss all right. Your complaints should have sent him out there to tell the guy that his kind aren't needed for anything and that the lease would not be renewed. If he intends to renew the lease with this guy, shame on him! That's aiding a guy in being a lawbreaker instead of obeying the law like the rest of us do. That includes God's laws. I mean specifically the Golden Rule.
    Bottom Line: Call the sheriff, call the landlord, call, call, call until he's outa there. Otherwise, you're going to end up with your animals being mauled by the guy's dog and possibly you or someone you care about as well. Do you want a niece or nephew to visit only to be mauled because they exchanged words with this fool?
     
  16. june02bug

    june02bug Well-Known Member

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    I'd do just what you said. If you know the landlord.... next party I'd be waking him up when you were getting ready to go to bed and tell him either it stops in 30-45 minutes or call the cops. The more you take the more he'll do. Also post a sign about no parking at anytime or car will be towed at owners expense.... they park there then call a tow company.
     
  17. RAC

    RAC Guest

    The landlord has a duty to make sure that his tenants do not cause problems for the neighbors. You have warned him that they were causing problems, and one warning is enough. If you want something in writing that you warned him, send a certified, return receipt letter to him.

    Call the sheriff, that's why you pay taxes, next time it happens, and let them know that the people are renters. They will talk with the landlord too. If they are bad tenants anyway (as in don't pay their rent), this is just another reason the landlord can use for eviction, parties in the lease or no. Hopefully your property is posted that you will tow their cars at their expense if they are blocking your access in any way. (take a video/picture if possible).

    Imho, "party noise" should end at the end of daylight hours, with 9pm as the cutoff, and you take the party inside. Neighbors have children who need their sleep, maybe you need your sleep. Inviting the neighbors is courteous, but not everyone is the party type.

    As far as loud businesses, well, it kind of depends. If you moved in knowing a heavy equipment/construction etc. outfit was next door or in the immediate area, well, too bad, you should have found this out before you moved in.

    If, however, the business comes in AFTER you were there (whether the people starting it were there before you or not), the business owners (again, imho here) have an obligation to mitigate damage to the neighborhood as a whole. This could take several forms--like a chip/shred business could give once a year coupons (and probably deduct as a business expense on taxes) for a day's worth of work to the immediate neighbors. Another thing could be serious landscaping (not baby trees, full-size trees) planted to hide the blight/dust/noise.

    The starting hours of a business, I hear you. Engines need time to warm up, employees are coming in, you need time to get to your morning destination in order to get a full day's work in. In any area this can be a problem. If you're a day sleeper, NO time is good ;-)

    They're trying to work on this problem in our rural areas. On the one side you have people who moved out there for peace and quiet, and on the other people trying to make a living. Some of the heavy/noisy equipment businesses refuse to rent space in the local industrial areas, citing expense, and have complained that most of the "complaints" are actually from competitors who are in the city areas. On the other hand, some of the home businesses are not paying their taxes/permits, or are causing runoff, noise, dust and other problems.

    Imho you shouldn't be running noisy stuff as a business on anything less than a 20 acre area, and you should be able to put them where others can't see them (this is where trees and walls help immensely). If you don't have that kind of property, look into a non-disruptive business that doesn't bother the neighbors and can still make money for you. Or try to buy out your neighbors for a buffer and turn them into rentals (which will make money for you and renters don't care about things like property values).

    Bottom line, you would have called LONG AGO if this landlord weren't supposedly a "friend". Call the sheriff--chances are, parties that big and noisy have drug activity as well, and if that turns out to be the case, your friend will have his property taken away from him in any event....

    Good luck!
     
  18. Doc

    Doc Well-Known Member Supporter

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    This is still bothering me a lot because I know that my "friend" who is the landlord won't do much. For one thing, he told me he would talk to them on Sunday and call me. I haven't heard a word. He has already been told about this guy -- who had parties last summer, almost one every week. Not until 4 am, but 2 am, easily.

    The renter pays his rent (but just took in another single male adolescent) to help with the rent, I suppose. My friend likes the guy because he works for a landscape company and brings home free plants (the place looks gaudy now, IMHO). Anyway, I doubt he would kick him out.

    BUT: he owes me a huge favor and I'm cashing in my chips. I am going to tell him all about what I have read and learned. Nuisance neighbor, nuisance tenant. I am going to suggest that he put him on a 3-6 month lease, and if the party occurs again, he's out. Otherwise, there is no teeth in the lease, the boys will just agree to be quiet, and then do it again -- and they are in a year's lease. With a short lease, that way, I'm protected somewhat, and they know they are in danger of losing their home. What do you all think about that?

    BTW: there were drugs: I saw two goys in the car, early on. I like the idea of having the sheriff's dept out to shake down the cars.

    And parking: it is a private road -- and where they parked was all on my property. It is also a country road, a deadend road and dirt, and I don't want to post signs. What I am doing is hauling as many long limbs as I can manage and placing them in this area. However, I will ask my friend to put that in the lease, too. He has two acres -- they can park somewhere on those two acres.

    One thing I do need to find out: their bonfire. Not more than 20 feet from his house and not far from mine. My mother pointed out that in a strong wind (which we tend to have out here), embers could carry my way. I am going to call our fire dept and find out if there is an ordinance about that, too.

    And as far as talking to the boy: forget it. I tried that a long time ago. Look, I'm middle aged -- why should he care what I think? That's his 'tude. I'm just interfering with his having a good time.
     
  19. Terri

    Terri Singletree & Weight Loss & Permaculture Moderator Staff Member Supporter

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    Doc, trust your instincts.

    You have said that this guy gives you the creeps, and that drugs have been involved.

    I would not want an angry confrontation with this guy. Put out your limbs, and check with the fire department and cops if you think it a good idea. But, by all means avoid an angry confrontation!
     
  20. RAC

    RAC Guest

    Gee, I don't know any landlords who do leases on residential property anymore--unless you're in a state where the courts will make the tenant pay up ALL of a broken lease there is no benefit whatsoever to a landlord for doing one. As a landlord, you can always agree to the rent not going up for a certain period of time, in a separate clause, but still should have a month to month rental agreement as far as everything else.

    Doc, the rental agreement/lease terms have nothing whatsoever to do with them disturbing your peaceful enjoyment of your property, or breaking the law. The lease could say they COULD have parties, and you still could get them legally removed, if they are breaking the law.

    Buying the landlord out might be a good idea, but I would definitely insist on a hazardous waste inspection (yes, you'll have to pay for it) first. You don't want to pay thousands of dollars to fix up a property if you don't have to.