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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am proud to announce that one of my wonderful ND bucks is now known as MCH Sandy Hollow UK Chesire Cat *S *B! I just received confirmation from AGS that he is now a finished champion. Woohoo, way to go Chesire!

His daughters have also been doing well in the show ring, with at least a few Grand Champions as Juniors.

I'm not sure if he's finished in ADGA yet or not. I have an inquiry in.
 

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Congratulations to you!!!! I have know idea what it is but it sure sounds cool!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks guys! Minelson, it's a permanent title that goes on his name since he is now "finished" in AGS. That means he's won Grand Champion X amount of times (or Reserve Y amount of times under certain circumstances dealing with the # of ND bucks shown in that class) and has now become a permanent champion. ADGA has slightly different rules so I don't know if he's qualified with them or not yet.

Now that he's finished in AGS, I can continue to show him if I want, but most people don't put them in the regular classes so that others can have a chance at finishing their champions. This is why they offer the "Champion Challenge" class at some events. In this case, a finished champion (MCH) comes in at the last class for the bucks and the judge evaluates him against the current show's champion to choose Best of Breed. From there the winner goes on to compete in "Best Buck in Show", which is over *all* breeds shown at that event.

In addition to now being an MCH in AGS, Cheshire beat a previously undefeated champion challenger to take Best Buck In Show at the Alaska State Fair. I think he did this twice but I don't have the show records in front of me. At this point, he was still competing in all the classes because he had *just* received enough wins that day to become an MCH but it wasn't official (and I had no idea).

Even though he is my best behaved buck and easy to show, now I will only show him to finish his ADGA championship, to participate in champion challenge, or to help meet sanction (increase # of entries). Yippee!!
 

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I just looked at his picture on your website...he is a big boy! How much does he weigh?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
That's a bad shot of him but I haven't gotten a new one since he's in rut! EW!

He was around 120 then I think. I'd like to see him under 110, which is about where he is now. At that point his weight had masked his dairy character quite a bit, which were one of the judges' few criticisms at that point. We slimmed him down for the next show (but still not as much as I wanted) and suddenly he was a dairy goat again (and not a buffalo)! LOL
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Minelson, I guess ADGA calls them GC (grand champion) when they earn that title and AGS calls them MCH for Master Champion when they earn that one. They are slightly different. I believe ADGA requires one more win than AGS but I have to look it up again. This is my first MCH or GC.
 

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:clap: Well, it sure didn't take you long to zoom to the top :) All your research and decisions have paid off...you should be very proud! :goodjob:

120 lbs is huge! even 110 is...Gretta only weighs 75 and the twins only around 45lbs. I didn't know ND's could get that big!
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Yes, Chesire is a big-boned boy. Take all that hair off him and you can really see that. Even when he is down to weight, probably around 100 pounds, he is "built"! He's from powerhouse lines so crossing him with more refined does gives me nice results. I like a goat that has dairy character but doesn't have spindly legs!

Chesire was only shown once before I bought him, that I know of. When he was either just under a year or just over a year (in 2004 or 2005). He **** Reserve Grand Champion then, but that's all I know. Then he stayed home and made a few nice kids. I bought him in late 2007 as my first buck. We showed him in five events this year and he rocked it. SOOO well-mannered. All but one judge placed him Reserve or Grand and all of those said they had difficulty choosing between him and the other buck but when they deferred to the other, they said it was because of his age (the other buck is 7 I think). The judges like to see longevity so when in doubt, go with the older buck. The other buck was previously undefeated until the last show we had this year. We actually thought that other buck had finished his championship so he wouldn't be in the classes with us, but I got word just before the show that the buck had not earned one of his wins due to bad tattoos so I told the owner and she put him in the classes to try to finish his championship too. He did so, in the other ring. :)

Soooo, anyway, it's alot of fun to show this boy but it's also nice not to have to do it anymore if I don't want to. At least in AGS. Of course I won't leave him home alone so he will probably still come for another year or two and participate in ADGA shows until he's finished and champion challenge classes.

There's so much to learn!!!!
 

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Minelson, I guess ADGA calls them GC (grand champion) when they earn that title and AGS calls them MCH for Master Champion when they earn that one. They are slightly different. I believe ADGA requires one more win than AGS but I have to look it up again. This is my first MCH or GC.
AGS & ADGA both require 3 wins to finish. It is MCH for AGS, CH for ADGA and PGCH for NDGA.
A buck does have to have registered kids for the wins to count towards his title (which yours does). Junior wins for bucks don't count towards the title, but a junior doe can win one leg towards her MCH/CH title but the other two legs must be in milk. For AGS, one of those wins in milk must be at an AGS sanctioned show.
Congratulations!
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thanks jordan, that's pretty much how I understood it. OK, here's a question on the ADGA/AGS stuff, I know that AGS will count an ADGA win if you submit the paperwork. What about the other way around??

My husband has informed me I'm way off on my estimate of poundage for the buck (as usual). He says he's probably 90-100 pounds now. Whew!
 

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Thanks jordan, that's pretty much how I understood it. OK, here's a question on the ADGA/AGS stuff, I know that AGS will count an ADGA win if you submit the paperwork. What about the other way around??
AGS will count the ADGA win IF you submit a signed win transfer. Again though, for the doe to finish with AGS, she must have at least one leg in milk in an AGS sanctioned show. You're screwed with ADGA. They won't do the same.
That is one of the reasons we are seeing an increase in AGS sanctioned ND shows around here. There are more ND's registered yearly with AGS than ADGA and I can't see that ever changing. I believe there are only about 3000 or so in total registered with ADGA (not alot considering how many are bred yearly!).
If you attend a dual sanctioned show (AGS & ADGA), the win counts towards BOTH registries. A very compelling reason to request the clubs dual sanction the ND's if you register your goats with both (I only register AGS & NDGA).
Hope this helps!
Lois
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
OK, that's what I thought. Thanks!

One thing, Judge Repp was saying the opposite and we were all surprised! He is a dual-sanctioned judge and he said people in his area are very unhappy with AGS versus ADGA. We were just flummoxed to hear this! Everyone up here that I know of agrees with what you said, and while ADGA is great, AGS is so much easier to deal with, just less informative at your fingertips due to lack of online stuff.

I think Chesire needs one more win to get his ADGA GC title. Now to get his daughters around the country on test so he can start earning the plus statuses... :)
 

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OK, that's what I thought. Thanks!

One thing, Judge Repp was saying the opposite and we were all surprised! He is a dual-sanctioned judge and he said people in his area are very unhappy with AGS versus ADGA. We were just flummoxed to hear this! Everyone up here that I know of agrees with what you said, and while ADGA is great, AGS is so much easier to deal with, just less informative at your fingertips due to lack of online stuff.

I think Chesire needs one more win to get his ADGA GC title. Now to get his daughters around the country on test so he can start earning the plus statuses... :)
Rusty is actually a judge with all 3 ND registries. If I recall correctly, he had a few paperwork snafu's and that may have colored his opinion a bit.

While I agree that AGS is easier to deal with (also quicker, better ND herd books and more history at their disposal), I disagree that ADGA is all that great for the ND's. Overall, around here, they tend treat the ND people like red-headed step children or cash cows. I just can't see paying someone to treat you poorly!

For the most part, the only ND people I have ever heard that didn't like AGS and find them easier to deal with are the one's who have lost legs due to incorrect paperwork, which would be the show secretaries fault and their own for not double checking, not AGS's (though they get blamed for sticking to their rules!) or a judging issue.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I agree, jordan. Many folks up here that have only had the big breeds think NDs are "just a fad". One of my good friends, who breeds both pygmies and now NDs, says, when you can get 6# of milk out of one of these little guys for half the feed, that's no fad! ;)
 

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I agree, jordan. Many folks up here that have only had the big breeds think NDs are "just a fad". One of my good friends, who breeds both pygmies and now NDs, says, when you can get 6# of milk out of one of these little guys for half the feed, that's no fad! ;)
Well said! We get alot of "not a real dairy goat" down here... But they sure are ready and willing to take our entry fees!
 
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