[GregVA]

I am building a new barn that will be 22 by 32. This will be used for equipment and food storage on one side with goats, turkey/chicken, maybe a few pigs on the other. We may add a leanto on it at some point if we need to expand.

Option 1
I was considering doing a pole barn style with cement footings using sono tubes. This would have a dirt floor.

Option 2
My other option is making this a large shed floor type with a concrete footer blocks and 4x4s or 6x6 as the foundation. I would then make a standard 2x6 floor joist system and stick build the walls.

I am considering building this to have a use as a horse barn in the future, but not sure if that is worth it. I dont plan on horses, but think that might add to resale for the property. (We dont plant on moving anytime soon so not sure if its worth planning for that.) What do you reccomend? I am guessing option 2 would not work for a future horse barn?

 

[GTX63]

Option 1 is pretty straightforward, and of course, with lean toos, you can add a 12x32 on either/both sides for equipment/feed storage.
Floors can come anytime after the initial build. Personally, I would go with gravel or concrete.

 

[FarmboyBill]

IF your gonna put all those animals in that space, youll find youll nead a lean 2 just for the tools, tractor feed, hay

 

[Rodeo's Bud]

22x32 gets small very quick, especially with animals and their food and gear and muck.

 

[GregVA]

The first one in with either be turkeys or goats, probly turkeys.

Do you all think the sonotube is the way to go for floors, or make this a big shed floor build? I know this is a small barn, or a big shed depends how you look at it

thanks

 

[painterswife]

12 x 12 is usually the minimum horse stall. For me that would mean the barn is best in 12 foot increments. 12 feet for stalls on either side and 12 foot for a walkway down the middle. That would then also work for other animals. You could have 4 open stalls with 2 closed off for food and supplies. Then you could park equipment in the middle.

I would build in 36 x 36.

 

[GregVA]

The horse idea is mainly for resale, which I hope wont be for 15 years or more. It may not be worth thinking about resale that far off, but since I am building I am trying to decide if its worth making it tall enough for horses?

It could always add length to one end later.

Does everyone think a pole building style is a better option then a shed floor style?

thanks

 

[Alice In TX/MO]

Yes. Pole barn. Tall. Bigger. Yes, consider resale value

No one ever builds a barn and says, “I should have made it smaller.”

 

[Fishindude]

Do you all think the sonotube is the way to go for floors, or make this a big shed floor build? I know this is a small barn, or a big shed depends how you look at it

Based on what I'm reading hear you really don't understand how buildings are built, will try to explain.
Small as this building is, you could go with post frame construction, or a standard 2x4 stud framed walls. Roof framing will be about the same regardless, foundations are the primary difference.

Post frame buildings do not have foundations. They use a serious of posts around the perimeter of the building, holes are augered or drilled into the earth, posts are set in and typically encased in concrete to a depth below whatever your frost depth is (36" here). 8' Post spacing is pretty normal, but locations of doors, etc. can change that. Between the posts there is no foundation, so you have potential for varmints digging under the walls and getting in building if you don't have a floor slab.

For a standard 2x4 framed building you need some type of continuous footing and foundation wall to support the walls. This typically involves excavating a trench to below frost level (36" here), pouring a 2' wide x 12" thick concrete footing, then either laying block or pouring a concrete foundation wall atop the footing to a level above grade where your framed walls start.

Either method will work fine for your building and either can be done with or without a floor slab. A lumber framed floor system of any type is a very poor choice for the ground floor of a barn. Either go with a poured slab, or just leave it gravel.

A "Sonotube" is a cardboard tube they is used as a concrete form to create round piers for foundations of various things. In most cases they are not needed when building a post frame building.

 

[Nimrod]

A pole barn will be cheaper. My neighbor says bigger critters do better on a dirt floor. You might consider a two story barn for more storage space. I am still finishing the one I built. Thought you might like a look.

https://www.homesteadingtoday.com/threads/progress.571648/#post-8066868

The only thing I would do different is male the gable end overhangs longer, 3 or 4 feet.

 

[GregVA]

Post frame buildings do not have foundations. They use a serious of posts around the perimeter of the building, holes are augered or drilled into the earth, posts are set in and typically encased in concrete to a depth below whatever your frost depth is (36" here). 8' Post spacing is pretty normal, but locations of doors, etc. can change that. Between the posts there is no foundation, so you have potential for varmints digging under the walls and getting in building if you don't have a floor slab.

I am not a expert on building, but I do know a thing or two. The 'old style' was to put your posts in the ground and cement them in. A newer method, which I am sure you are familiar with, is to use a sonotube at the top part of your hole. This allows you to have all your post mounts level. Then when the cement is still wet, you wet set a post base bracket. We could probably debate for pages on if its better to set the post in the ground with cement, gravel or something else, or mount them above grade to prevent rot. Yeah they wont rot for 'x' number of years, but if using a sono tube and engineered bracket to keep the wood above grade is a way to prevent rot its probably a good idea.

I may need to rethink my questions more clearly when I post them, sorry if it was confusing.

I wanted to know if I made this a shed style floor, could it be mounted on blocks like a normal 10 by 15 shed. I am sure there is some engineering answer to that, and thats what I am not familiar with. For example only, "Once you are at 20 by 12 you have to have a poured slab, but 19 by 12 is ok on cement blocks".

At this point I think I will just do a pole barn.

Nimrod, nice barn I will check that thread out in more detail to get some ideas. Thanks!

 

[Fishindude]

We could probably debate for pages on if its better to set the post in the ground with cement, gravel or something else, or mount them above grade to prevent rot. Yeah they wont rot for 'x' number of years, but if using a sono tube and engineered bracket to keep the wood above grade is a way to prevent rot its probably a good idea.

This makes a whole lot more sense now.
Either way will work, bury the pole and encase in concrete, or post brackets on a poured pier.

Modern treated lumber designed for direct burial will probably outlast us both.

 

[GTX63]

I wanted to know if I made this a shed style floor, could it be mounted on blocks like a normal 10 by 15 shed. I am sure there is some engineering answer to that, and thats what I am not familiar with. For example only, "Once you are at 20 by 12 you have to have a poured slab, but 19 by 12 is ok on cement blocks".

Sure you could. The first thought that came to my mind when I read your OP was weight load. I am amazed at the engineering at some of the backwoods outbuildings near me. Folks on a budget that do amazing work on a shoestring.
Proper planning and you can do just about anything.

 

[MJR]

The horse idea is mainly for resale, which I hope wont be for 15 years or more. It may not be worth thinking about resale that far off, but since I am building I am trying to decide if its worth making it tall enough for horses?

It could always add length to one end later.

Does everyone think a pole building style is a better option then a shed floor style?

thanks

I wouldn’t worry so much about resale with a barn 15+ years out. It won’t be a new barn in 15 years. It may settle unevenly and may need leaky roof repairs at that point. Something that may need some work won’t add a lot to resale.

As for horses, I used to board horse at one property and had two horses of my own in another property. The barn used for board was very big. 8 stalls down one side with an equal amount of space parallel for traffic. It had a loft for hay and a lean too for additional storage. Something of the size your planning on probably won’t appeal to someone who is in it with more than a horse or two.

The barn I had for my own 2 horses was smaller, about the size your planning, with a dirt floor. It was barely big enough for 2 horses, a few sheep and very limited storage. We parked an old mobile next to it for hay bails.

Building for horses for later resale will probably have you building something beyond your current needs and desirable cost.

 

[GregVA]

Good point, I will just build it for me and not worry about the resale down the road.

 

[Alice In TX/MO]

A barn that fails in 15 years is a badly designed and built barn.

 

[painterswife]

What I would do.

I would build the roof bigger than what you need but what you can afford. Then you could just enclose areas as you can afford it. Just like an open hay barn. One big roof. Just make sure the posts are the right distance art to easily frame in as you need them.

 

[FarmboyBill]

pw. The horse stable in our barn had partitions at around 8ft wide and the floor was 15ft wide. The barn was built before or at 1900. Course, I might not recommend that closeness, as he, my grandmoms first husband, who built the barn was crushed against the manger when one horse bit another and it lunged. It took awhile, but it killed him.

 

[rambler]

Way too small. Way, way too small.

pole building save labor. You want the design right, as they concentrate wind, snow load, etc stresses to concentrated points that need to be done right.

stick wall buildings on concrete stem are easier to modify and insulate and add shelves and so forth. Take a bit more labor to build, but are more forgiving of poor engineering.

both end up using about the same materials, so you will spend about the same on the material bill.

a building with livestock is full of salt and ammonia and dust and other such that rusts the heck out of machinery and tools and all such.

In 15 years after housing livestock it will be a nice old building but won’t be any spectacular resale magnet especially that small, so build for yourself not for resale.

dads pig barn is 18x40 feet, and it is a bit of a problem what to do with it, falling apart and do I fix it up or push it in, too small to do much in it any more at least it is 10-12 feet high, I hope to fix it up as it is in a location they won’t permit me to build but I can repair existing. Limited to a 10 foot wide door with the concrete stem wall.

But still it will be too small to be very useful, even a rich persons travel camper wouldn’t hardly fit in any more, not sure of the value of such a building.

Paul

 

[dyrne]

If you're going relatively low height no loft I wouldn't have a problem with sonotubes. I don't trust them at all for taller projects and would prefer old fashioned 6x6s in the ground that reach to the roof pitch height. If you build a roof with decently long eaves and put in on a location with decent drainage the posts will last. Even for single story no loft... I prefer posts in the ground or a real foundation.