Never feel safe

Discussion in 'Goats' started by LONGRANGER, Aug 26, 2006.

  1. LONGRANGER

    LONGRANGER Member

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    Don't mean to make all you goat mamma and pappas even more paranoid but my experience the past 2 months makes me think that my goats will never be safe from predators. Lost my second this evening just before dusk. A beautifull golden fleeced 5 month old doeling called honey.

    Went to put my guys in thier fully fenced stall for the night and saw she was missing from her herd of seven. It was maybe 5 minutes later than normal but she was already pretty cool so the deed was done in broad daylight. Definately looked like a dog did it. Severe injury causing a hopefully quick death but little or nothing eaten.

    I live in a suburban/nearly urban area of southern California. Never thought in a million years that this would be a problem here. Actually tonights loss was less surprising than the first a couple of months back which was the work of coyotes. They went on the rampage in my area this summer killing many cats and dogs.

    My fences are 6 foot chain link and are essentially totally secure. My own dogs which include 3 very active young fox terriers can't even get through. My chihuahua can but I am pretty sure he is not the culprit.

    No thoughts of giving up but I am very sad and discouraged. My goats are strictly pets. They really help me relax after a long day at work. Not in a position to consider LGDs which would probably treat my pet dogs as snacks. Don't think a llama is a good idea either since the coyotes have been traveling in packs. Oh well can only hope that the coyotes stay shy during the day and that damn dog gets hit by a car or worse. I will kill the beast if I get the opportunity.

    Bottom line. No matter where you live or how sure you are that the fences etc are inpenetrable be very very carefull and protective of your goats. They are gentle prey animals and you never can assume they are safe.

    Mike B
     
  2. Milking Mom

    Milking Mom COTTON EYED DOES

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    Sorry for your loss, Mike. I hope you spot that dog soon. I have had to shoot a goat after it being torn up by a dog. :grump: Not fun.
     

  3. armeda

    armeda Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry Mike. How did the dog get through the fence? Over, under or through?

    Armeda
     
  4. pourfolkes

    pourfolkes Well-Known Member

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    We had the same thing going on with dogs, raccoons, coyotes so we put electric wires at the top of the chain link and at the bottom. The very first night, we heard a pack of coyotes trying to get in the pen... boy were they hollering when they hit that wire. I have not lost one goat, chicken, rabbit since we did this...
     
  5. nduetime

    nduetime I am a Christian American Supporter

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    Sorry to hear of your loss Mike. It is so hard to lose a pet.That electric sounds like a good idea.
     
  6. Bearfootfarm

    Bearfootfarm Hello, hello....is there anybody in there.....? Supporter

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    If you were to get a LGD and let it get used to the dogs you have now there shouldnt be a problem. My Maremmas get along fine with my Coonhound now that they know hes part of the family. I sometimes even let him inside the pasture and they will play together. He was even accepted by my oldest one who was already grown when I got the Coonhound. I think it would be worth a try, especially since you have coyotes in your area. People mistakenly think LGD's are vicious, but they mainly deter predators by simply barking to make their presence known, and seldom have to actually fight with anything
     
  7. LONGRANGER

    LONGRANGER Member

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    Thanks for your kind words and suggestions.

    In the light of day I confirmed an intact fenceline. Must have come over the top. No spots dug up. I am sure going to miss that little sweetypie.

    Anybody have an idea how much money putting up top and bottom electric would cost? Will do about 1.5 acres. Also cost of operation? Don't think I have much choice but to do electric or a guard animal.

    Mike B
     
  8. copperpennykids

    copperpennykids Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Sorry to hear about your girl.

    I sleep well at night because I have Great Pyrenees doing all of the worrying for me. I don't know about other breds of LGDs , but Great Pyrenees are great with your other animals and dogs. My cats lie between my Pyrs front paws, especially in the winter when they want to be snuggled. Pyrs tend to treat little creatures as their personal pets.

    Oh, and you will fall in love with your Pyrenees as well--they can bond with their humans and still be excellent Livestock Guardians.

    Camille
     
  9. TexCountryWoman

    TexCountryWoman Gig'em

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    Sorry for your loss. I sleep well and can leave the farm because of our 3 great Pyrenees. One would work for you. A pup would bond easily with your little dogs. They are very low key and are loving to all creatures that belong on the farm. Mine even are bonded to the chickens and other poultry that free range and nibble at their food. Yesterday, a MiniMancha stood on one of the Pyrenees to reach the water trough (she wanted to drink out of the "big girl" trough). The Pyrenees just layed there and let the goat use him as a stepping stool. In the past, we lost a total of 29 goats to coyotes and dogs. Since we got the Pyrenees, we have not lost a single goat or chicken and we live in the deep woods in a very rural area. We even have cougars out here.

    I can't say enough about this breed of dog.
     
  10. fishhead

    fishhead Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I can buy 1/4 mile of electric fence wire for about $15, 5,000 V charger for $50, ground rod for $10 and plastic insulators for maybe another $25. It's well worth it.
     
  11. goatedintoit

    goatedintoit Truly Gems ADGA Nubians

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    running an electric line just on top and bottom shouldn't run more than a couple hundred dollars. The charger will be the most expensive and you won't need a big one for that small an area. The cost to run the fence in quite minimal as it runs on a pulse that uses less than 24 hours of power a year.

    My Gallegher.com rep came out and helped me set up my fence. I can't recommend them highly enough.
     
  12. LONGRANGER

    LONGRANGER Member

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    Heck,

    Never exclude possibilities. If any of you have some really special LGD pups or adults that need placing shoot me a pm or post in this thread. Want to find the best possible long term solution.

    thanks again,
    Mike B
     
  13. Dee

    Dee Well-Known Member

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    Jeffers catalog has different chargers. The Fieldmaster is 2.9 joules and charges up to 15 miles of fence. It sells for $72.95 plus shipping. Plastic post insulators are $2.59 for a pack of 25, including nails. A couple of gate handles for $1.25 ea. The wire is available through them but would probably be cheaper getting from someplace local because of shipping weight. My husband got three ground poles locally that were copper incased in steel...never rust away.

    Don't bother with the solar chargers, they really are not that great for a predator deterant.

    Also, after you install it, put some peanut butter on the wire in a couple of places :D If it is a dog, he'll lick off the peanut butter and get the shock of his life. You'll never have to worry about him again.
     
  14. boren

    boren Well-Known Member

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    Electric is great, I've seen stray dogs his ours and it really puts a smile on your face. How tall is the chain link? Most dogs can clear 4-5' stuff pretty easily, heck I've had a goat clear that.

    Also check all the fence line for any spaces. 99.5% of the fence can be perfect, but a loose bottom or a gap between two posts is enough to make it useless.

    After doing electric I don't think I'm going to use anything else. It's cheap, easy and effective. One caveat, buy the best charger you can afford, it's what makes the fence a fence.
     
  15. Carrie C

    Carrie C Well-Known Member

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    If the law allows, barbed wire or razor wire OUTSIDE the fenceline in place of electric wire. You'd need to have it stick out a bit and not have it right up against the fence. I've seen it done and people swear by it.
    Sorry for your loss.
    ~Carrie C.
     
  16. Goat Freak

    Goat Freak Slave To Many Animals

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    Sorry for your loss LONGRANGER, I hope you get the animal that got your girl, and make mince meat out of 'em. Good Luck. A pyranese pup is starting to sound good to me, I was told that you had to make the choice between whether you wanted them to love you or protect the goats, that they couldn't do both. They sound great! Do you think they'd do all right in FL?
     
  17. qwerty

    qwerty Well-Known Member

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    Sorry for your loss.I have a Maremma and several Pyrs also the electric fence, but I like the LGDs the best. I also have 2 donkeys. Try to keep everyone safe. Live in th mountains so do have a predator problem, the neighbors dogs,wolves,bear,coyotes and mt.lions but nothing has gotten past the LGDs.
    Goat Freak check the Florida Market Bulletin. They have LGDs occasionally and I'm sure someone there could answer your questions about them in Florida.

    qwerty
     
  18. copperpennykids

    copperpennykids Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Goat Freak,

    A good Great Pyrenees should be able to bond with both you and your goats....mine do! In fact, they are more fulfilled because of it, and I believe do a better job (and a more versatile one). Great Pyrenees are smart and know what is important to you--your animals. they can also determine what is a predator and what is not. They are very safe when you have visitors (somthing that apparently can not be said for other LGDs), especially if they see that you have greeted the visitors, etc.
    My pyrenees have alerted me to "visitors" who came to see puppies as non-desirable, just by observing the dogs' behavior. Not aggressive, but very vigilant until the "visitors" left. I did not have them return.
    But love your Pyrenees--they deserve it, and so do you!

    Camille
     
  19. jennigrey

    jennigrey Well-Known Member Supporter

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    What sort of vertical posts is your chainlink fence attached to? This will dictate what sort of insulators you will need to use to attach your hotwire and thus how much it will cost and how difficult the job will be.
     
  20. witchysharon

    witchysharon Well-Known Member

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    Until you install the hotwire, try keeping talk radio on out in their barn, stalls or shelter area. Not sure if it will help if the culprit was a dog, but I've heard it keeps coyotes away, so may work for the pack that's going around your area. Really sorry about your little doeling.