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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Not mine, fortunately, but my friend's. She just started with rabbits and has three bred does, two bucks and five juveniles she's keeping for more breeding stock. She has outside cages, fortunately very sturdy ones with heavy wire, so no actual losses so far, but she's concerned the bred does may abort from stress.

Five dogs the neighbor lets run, which is not legal in this county. She called the county animal control. Because there was actual damage (which was photographed) they came out and picked up all five dogs, which they can do if they are back on the owner's property.

The owner got the dogs back ... a fine, plus $50 per dog.

Dogs were back at the rabbit cages again the next day. More damage, another call to animal control.

The interesting part of this is that although there are laws on the books that allow a livestock owner to shoot "stray" dogs that are on his property threatening livestock, there is also a new law, enacted just last year.

It isn't well written, a "in the heat of the moment" kind of thing that was written and passed after a very bad case of animal abuse, which was documented and generated a lot of local coverage. Unfortunately, the way it is written, there is reason to believe that you can now be charged with a felony if you shoot a dog ... whether it is threatening you or your livestock or not. There hasn't been a "trial case" at this point but some of the local "legal experts" ... including the lawyer that advises the county animal control ... thinks there is some question as to whether you would win a lawsuit if you were charged under this new law ... which is a felony, incidentally ...

There is always SSS ... but in this case the neighbor is close, the dogs are coming in during the daylight hours as well and the property is fairly open to view ...

I don't object to the stronger animal cruelty laws, in fact I think it should be a felony ... but the kind of public furor, whipped up by the PETA types, that allow these kinds of counterproductive laws to be passed is SO frustrating!

And it seems that it's the irrational idiots that end up getting these things written and passed. :hobbyhors
 

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big goose might help too. Though perhaps not against a pack of dogs.

A water gun that goes off with a proximity alarm? As in proximity sensor sets off the water gun.

has she tried talking with the neighbour about it?

I suppose she can keep calling animal control, and her neighbour will keep getting hit with fines. That might be all she can do.....money will eventually tell something......
 

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I recently had the same problem, except I did lose two of my does. I called animal control, and set a trap. Animal control actually encouraged me to shoot or kill, the dog what ever way I chose. I haven't done that except with a BB gun, which won't do more than sting them, if that. I was able to hand catch a dog with pups and carried them to the shelter without animal control involvement, so the owners would have to go looking to find them.
 

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Paintball gun. One of the ones with a really far range, it should make them yelp and head for home. Where the owner will see that someone with good aim has been shooting the dogs and hopefully take a hint that next time it may not be paintballs. (even if your friend doesn't intend to shoot lethally - how would the dog owner know that?)
 

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Rabbits can die from fear, have had it happen with dogs many years ago. Dogs couldn't get in the hutch so they terrified the rabbits from underneath, and the rabbits died from fright. That can also cause broken and removed toes, and reabsorbed kits. I'd be catching and disposing of the dogs in whatever way I could, because obviously the owner isn't going to put their dogs up. She should have just taken care of it on her own the first time it happened, now if the dogs disapear their going to know who's responsible.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
She's in the process of putting up an outside fence and she's already used a shotgun on the dogs. She is also not the only person who has reported the dogs running at large and causing problems, just the only one that has had "documentable" damage ... which is a requirement before the animal control people can pick up dogs that are not actually running at large off their own property. If they are back on the owner's property, even if not confined, at the time the animal control people see them, they can't be picked up.
She has also confronted the owner ... and given him a bill for the damages and repair.

Under different circumstances, she wouldn't have a problem by now. The way things were, any livestock owner did have the right to kill a dog that was harassing livestock. The new dog abuse law that was passed opened the possibility that she could be charged with felony dog abuse if she does, nobody really knows for sure and until someone is charged and fights it through the courts, the outcome is unknown. She's just not really wanting to get into what could be a long and expensive legal battle.

She is, in fact, trying to come up with a workable SSS scenario ... but the dogs don't seem to run at night and the daylight hours are "iffy" for that.
 

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She's in the process of putting up an outside fence and she's already used a shotgun on the dogs. She is also not the only person who has reported the dogs running at large and causing problems, just the only one that has had "documentable" damage ... which is a requirement before the animal control people can pick up dogs that are not actually running at large off their own property. If they are back on the owner's property, even if not confined, at the time the animal control people see them, they can't be picked up.
She has also confronted the owner ... and given him a bill for the damages and repair.

Under different circumstances, she wouldn't have a problem by now. The way things were, any livestock owner did have the right to kill a dog that was harassing livestock. The new dog abuse law that was passed opened the possibility that she could be charged with felony dog abuse if she does, nobody really knows for sure and until someone is charged and fights it through the courts, the outcome is unknown. She's just not really wanting to get into what could be a long and expensive legal battle.

She is, in fact, trying to come up with a workable SSS scenario ... but the dogs don't seem to run at night and the daylight hours are "iffy" for that.
Dogs are a real problem. My brother had some of his does in a temporary cage, while he was cleaning out his rabbit shed. It was like a rabbit hutch. but with solid floors and sides made of poultry netting. It was really a poultry cage, but a neighbor had given it to him, and it came in very useful for temporary caging, to quarantine new animals for a couple of day, etc.
The wire as old, but was barely rusted. He heard a commotion and went out to see what was going on. A German shepard (neighbor's down the road)
had run into the end of the cage so hard that it broke though the poultry netting and was killing all his rabbits.

Even comming up to a shed and jumping and barking can throw the rabbits into such terror that they will hurt themselve, and stomp their babies.

One of the best investments I ever made was an electric fencer.

I put a wire around the bottom of every fence and shed. It not only helps to keep dogs away, but also possums, *****, snakes (if you place it right) and all kinds of other varmits. It saves me from damages, I don't have worry about legal issues because I took some action against a maurading pet, and it saves confrontations with neighbors. One has enough challanges raising animals without having somebodies darling rotweiler trash years of breeding effort and work in a couple of minutes, not to mention that some of these animals can be like family to us.

I may send my rabbits to freezer camp.... but I do it in a much more humane way than them getting eaten alive. I realize it is the way of the wild, but my animals are locked in a cage and have no chance to run or escape. So I am responsible to protect them and make there life as reasonable as I can.

Maybe the electric fence things will work for her. Yep, I know it shouldn't be her respnsibility to manage the neighbors dogs... but in todays world, we often get stuck with unfair laws, and neigbors who are less responsible than we would like.

(one of the reasons many of us have, or are planing, to move out to the boonies ;) )
 

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We just found out there are a bunch of cats roaming around our barn. We talked to the neighbor and he said they just moved into his barn. Not feeding them or anything they just moved in. Spring will most probly bring lots of kittens. That is definitely not wanted around the does. So we have to decide what to do about that problem. I hate having to hurt anything. But the buns are my dinner and we work hard to keep them fed and safe. Every once in awhile a large male dog comes by but he runs off as soon as I go out and he hasnt bothered anything(so far) The dog cant get into the barn but I think the cats could if they tried hard enough. And what do you do about large black snakes? Is everything after our rabbits? Some days it seems like it.

Linda and Tom
 

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Electric net fencing to enclose the cage area.

I was going to suggest an electric barrier of some sort. Wonder if the dog owner, knowing his dogs are a problem, would be willing to help with the costs?

ETA: for the cat issue, place some Have-a-Heart (or whatever it's called) traps in the barn and take them to the pound. This guy doesn't seem as if he would care either way (as in not bonded to the cats) so I vote pre-emptive strike.
 

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I recently had the same problem, except I did lose two of my does. I called animal control, and set a trap. Animal control actually encouraged me to shoot or kill, the dog what ever way I chose. I haven't done that except with a BB gun, which won't do more than sting them, if that. I was able to hand catch a dog with pups and carried them to the shelter without animal control involvement, so the owners would have to go looking to find them.
Actually, a BB will penetrate. When I lived in the city my next door neighbor got on his roof in the back of his house (so he would not be seen by the dog or neighbors) and fired shots at my dog in my fenced back yard (the dog hated him and would bark whenever he was in sight). My dog had one shot go into his front leg (that BB was removed) and another passed through the front of the legs skin and a 3rd went through the ribs and into the space between the lungs and body cavity. If he had been inhaling at the time, it would have pierced the lung. The vet decided it was not causing a problem where it was and left it rather than do surgery. Not sure if it is related, but the dog got lymphosarcoma 6 months later (at about 3 yrs of age) and suffered for 2 months before dying. Had to wonder if it was because of the BB that was left in. So I do not advocate the use of a BB gun.

Here is what I ahve done with neighbors dogs when they have been an issue. First I notify neighbor that the dog was harrassing my livestock after I ahve either caught it and returned it or chased it off with a plastic pellet gun. If I find the dog again, I will once again return or tag with a plastic pellet gun and give a warning and tell them I would hate to get the sherriff involved but I can't have the dog causing injury to my animals. Third time if I can catch the dog, I will take it to the shelter myself, if I cannot I will call the sherriff. Normally the sherriff call will stop it- but then expect the sherriff to be called on you if one of your animals stray once. My sherriff told me if the dog came back I had the right to shoot it dead and not tell neighbor but if he found out, I was covered legally (but I would be betting on retribution). Personally, that would have to be the last straw and animals would have had to be killed. It is not the dogs fault that the owners are irresponsible in controlling thier dog with a high prey drive.
I am also in an open area. The other neighbors do see things happen...for instance they saw the dog catch and kill one of my chickens on my property and take it home into the garage (which I charged the neighbor $50 for). So I would not want to do the SSS in daylight and risk retribution on my dogs. Your best defense as already stated in that case is to attempt to protect your animals with electric fencing. Poultry netting is not enough for 5 dogs. One or 2 may get zapped tearing it down, but then it will be down or torn enough for the others to get through. You should use chain link or wire mesh with a hot wire top and bottom or all high tensile.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Unfortunately, both she and I ARE in the boonies ... for this area of Kentucky. It is considered rural ... 5 miles from the nearest small town, 20 miles either north or south to a mid-sized town. And I can stand on top of the hill in the winter, after dark, and see the yardlights of more than a dozen houses ... and I can only see a mile in any direction.

In Montana I could see close to that many ...but I could see 3 miles up the creek (and there weren't any more ranches above that for 30 miles and almost 5 miles down the creek before you got to the small town there.

Definitely difference in population density!

She's talked to the owners, repeatedly. Also given them a bill for repairing the damage the dogs did to the cages ... both times. I think she's going to be forced to put in a heavy fence around the cages as I don't really see any other practical answer.
 

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I'd use electric fence, see if animal control will loan her a trap too, And I don;t mean the "have a heart" kind. The I would call said neighbors and tell them that there are traps set on the property for "coyotes" and perhaps, she may want to keep the dogs home.

I'd probably shoot them and new law be ----ed, but I am a lousy shot. I;d have to trap them first then shoot them, which would probably get me in way more trouble!

Although, if you keep catching them, sending them to animal control, which results in a fine, you would THINK that would get pretty old after a while!
 
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