negative fecals but gray gums

Discussion in 'Goats' started by Debi, Feb 4, 2005.

  1. Debi

    Debi Active Member

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    I noticed today while doing my copper bolusing that one of my does has grayish gums. There's a little bit of pale pink but her whole mouth, including her tongue, is more gray than pink. My fecals came back negative two weeks ago. Everyone else has nice healthy gums.

    She's due the middle of March. Should I go ahead and worm her with Cydectin and give her some Red Cell to get her iron levels up?

    Debi
    Kaufman TX
     
  2. elly_may

    elly_may Well-Known Member

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    Hi Debi,

    Yes, the Red Cell would be a good idea to boost her iron levels. Defnintely do worm her. I would also go with a round of Probiotics, Vitamin C, and Vitamin B complex.

    How are you administering worming meds? I always give orally as recommended by so many others as being the most effective.

    Have you taken her temp and is she eating/drinking good?

    My concern is that fetal develpment could explain some of the anemic conditions, but am sure others will jump in with more help too.
     

  3. susanne

    susanne Nubian dairy goat breeder

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    if the fecals came back negative i would not worm. also i think cydectin is not the right dewormer for pregnant does. red cell will not hurt her i guess. have you looed in the eyes? there you can see better if she is anemic.
    susanne
     
  4. Patty0315

    Patty0315 Well-Known Member

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    Who did the fecals and what did the test for ? Is this a Vet who you trust? I give red cell often , it will not hurt. Does she have a good mineral block? Grain? What your hay like?
     
  5. Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians

    Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians Well-Known Member

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    Remember that fecal sampling is just a tool. The eggs seen at fecal are not the blood sucking parasties their mothers are, and they do not show up at fecal. Also, this time of the year (winter) and when does are bred because of pregnancy hormones, most worms found at necropsy or arrested larve, literally put to sleep until a more hospitiapal time (the day they kid and the kidding hormone oxytocin curses through her system) to wake up start sucking blood and laying millions of eggs. So of course this time of year you will have a negative fecal on your bred doe. But when you couple our horid rainy nasty weather that is keeping our girls all in the barn, unless your barn is ultra clean in ready for kidding, your parasite level is likely high. Of course you worm the doe with signs like this. A goat can die from anemia, she may not even have the strength to kid normally. I would have some calcium on hand in case when she does kid she has a week or sluggish kidding. Vicki
     
  6. susanne

    susanne Nubian dairy goat breeder

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    but would you use cydectin in a pregnant doe? i read some were that it could lead to abortion.
    susanne
     
  7. mpillow

    mpillow Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I believe "Safe-guard" is the one safe for pregnant does.....Diamataceous Earth is also something to look into. Check around though not 100% sure.
     
  8. debitaber

    debitaber Well-Known Member

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    panacur is also good. that is what i use on my does, when preggers.
    I would gice a shot of iron, 5cc's, then a shot of b complex, same amount. then every day for 4 days I wuld give b complex, that is just what I would do, and also a round of probious.
    I give my really preg. does, probious, every once in a while any way. about a couple of times a week. and baking soda.
     
  9. ForMyACDs

    ForMyACDs Well-Known Member

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    It could very easily be a problem with tapeworms too. It's VERY rare (even in a heavy infestation to see tapeworm eggs in a fecal sample due to the way the egg sacks are released.
     
  10. Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians

    Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't choose to use either Safeguard or Panacur (the same thing) because it simply doesn't work here for anything, you have to give it at 5 times the dosage to even get tapes, or give it for 3 days in a row...sorry, no thanks. When I need to worm I use what works, and right now Cydectin is what we are using. I don't use anything the first 50 days of pregnancy, unless I had sypmtoms like you have of anemia, or a rise in fecal. Once again we preventatively worm the girls before the bucks breed them.

    Two years ago I contacted alot of the lists and kept emails from those with problems using Cydectin, or Quest. Yep abortions, from pouring on, deaths in kids, given 3 times the amount of drug needed, neurological sypmtoms in kids given it at 1 week old, and of course like alot of the stories, nobody necropsied anything, even a gal who lost several goats! So I take alot of stories like this with a huge grain of salt!

    MyACD's is correct, it is common to see tapeworm segments this time of the year. I don't do anything about them, here they are of only a concern for kids. But tapes do not cause anemia, here it's always hemoncous. Vicki
     
  11. dosthouhavemilk

    dosthouhavemilk Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Panecur still works in this area of the country, and I am pretty sure debitaber is in Michigan (correct?) and I was thinking mpillow is as well?
    Which would be why they suggested it.
    We use Panecur.
     
  12. Debi

    Debi Active Member

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    The last time I wormed, 11-28-04, was with Cydectin. I haven't wormed since because my fecals have all come back negative.

    Even though I was starting to see resistance to Ivermectin 1% last year, would hitting her with an oral dose of that be okay? And then dose her again with Cydectin the day she kids. They all got Ivermectin all through their pregnancies the past couple of years with no problems.

    Her eyes are still pink. Not as pink as some of the other girls but still pink. I check a few eyelids every day. That's why I was kinda surprised her gums were so pale and gray-tinted.

    Debi
    Kaufman TX
     
  13. Paula

    Paula Well-Known Member

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    We used Cydectin (orally) on pregnant Boer does for 1 1/2 years with no problems. We were always careful to use the proper dosage though.
     
  14. Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians

    Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians Well-Known Member

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    Of course you can Debi, I also moved to Cydectin before we saw any real resistance to Ivermectin. The Cydectin is giving us real residual effects we didn't see with the Ivermectin. Ivermectin would get our numbers down quickly, but only temporarily.

    Do what you are comfortable with. Even with everyone around me using Cydectin it scared me, I asked all sorts of questions, took a poll on folks having problems with it, and then decided to switch to it. So I know exactly how you feel about being leary. Vicki
     
  15. SherrieC

    SherrieC Well-Known Member

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    Here in (angola, orland, ashley) Indiana. Three different long time goat herds mine included, safegaurd no longer works. I threw mine out. Our goats worms are Safeguard/pancur resistent. I'm only 3 hours away from formyacds house. In the tri-state area.