Need Help - Lethargic Buckling

Discussion in 'Goats' started by kanpope, Aug 23, 2006.

  1. kanpope

    kanpope Livin' the Dream

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    I have an almost 12 week old buckling. He has just about reached sexual maturity and has been so noisy and rambunctious that he makes us all a little crazy.

    Well, today I went out and he is just lying there. I let the goats out to graze (which I do everyday) and he came out and just laid down. I walked over to him and he just laid there. :shrug:

    My first instinct was to work with what I have. So I gave him deworming stuff (he has never been dewormed)...which I realize now was probably really stupid. If something is wrong, I need to let it play out to see what it really is, right? Now I think I clouded or compounded the problem! :Bawling: Another concern is the recent high temps here, we have been hovering around 105 for the last 2 weeks. But they always have plenty of water???

    Anyway, I need some suggestions. I would not call this an emergency, at least not yet. I am going to go out and check on them periodically and make sure he is okay. I guess my main question is what are the signs that this could be something seriously wrong? Everything that I looked up was all about serious aliments associated with lethargy. I am so not there yet...I just have a goat that will not get up (and that is sooooo unlike him).

    :help:

    I forgot to mention, he is a Nigerian Dwarf Goat
     
  2. Sweet Goats

    Sweet Goats Cashmere goats

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    How is his poops? Are they normal or runny? I don't deworm mine either. I know everyone is going to go crazy on that but I do fecal floats and they have only shown worms once and that was several years ago, besides coming down with cocci two years ago, it all depends on where you live. How are is eyes, gums? If he was mind I would take him to the vet but I am sure you will get a better answer from someone else. Good Luck. Keep us posted.
     

  3. Milk n' Honey

    Milk n' Honey Well-Known Member

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    Give him some Probiotics. Also, can't hurt to give him some Nutridrench. I'd try that right off the bat. It doesn't hurt them and might perk him right up. If that doesn't help, has he had BoSe? If he doesn't turn around pretty quickly, I'd call the vet for some BoSe, if you are in a selenium deficient area and he hasn't already been dosed with it. We talked with our vet and was able to get an entire bottle of BoSe and plan on using it on all our babies b/c it doesn't hurt them and it is good insurance. Whenever we have a goat not acting quite right, Probios is the first thing we reach for. I've also heard a lot of good results from Fortified Vitamin B Complex when a goat isn't acting right. It gives them a boost. Are there any other symptoms? Is he weaned yet? Is he getting plenty to eat? Are the others letting him eat? Has he grown and put on weight well for you? Keep up posted.
     
  4. kanpope

    kanpope Livin' the Dream

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    He looks healthy - his weight is good. I will go try Nutridrench right now and check his gums and eyes. Is BoSe the probiotics? I will call the vet about that. His poops are normal.
     
  5. fishhead

    fishhead Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Probiotics are bacteria cultures. BoSe is selenium and something else.
     
  6. Sweet Goats

    Sweet Goats Cashmere goats

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    Probias is to get his ruman going again. If you do not have it, you can give him plain yogurt also. I didn't even think of the Nutri Drench, and I give that for everything.
     
  7. kanpope

    kanpope Livin' the Dream

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    Okay, I gave him the NutriDrench and I waited about 5 minutes and did not see a difference. I am not sure how long it takes to work but I have heard that it is pretty instant. His eyes and gums look good white and clear and pink and wet. I carried him (boy, he is HEAVY) to the backyard so I can keep a better eye on him. If I do not see a difference in about a hour, I will call the vet. Thanks...any other ideas?
     
  8. kanpope

    kanpope Livin' the Dream

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    Oh, I forgot to mention that he is very stiff. I watched him walk a little and his joints seem stiff. I noticed that is left side seems a timy bit more poofy than the right...but that is normal right?
     
  9. Sweet Goats

    Sweet Goats Cashmere goats

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    Is he bloated?? I think I would call the vet now. MOST vets will tell you to try something first if they have a idea, if not they will tell you to bring him in. Mine tried to help me over the phone as much as possible.
     
  10. kanpope

    kanpope Livin' the Dream

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    I called the vet and the receptionist was rather bitchy. They offered no assistance. I will go tonight if he is not better. I cannot take 3 small children and a goat in a crate to the vet.
     
  11. chris30523

    chris30523 Well-Known Member

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    I had the same problem with our local vet.I had a goat panicked and bleeding and they were no help.I was told later that most vets don't like goats cause they die so easily . :shrug: Good luck I had a buckling do the same thing We wormed ,nutra-drenched,his poops were normal he pee'ed ok no temp.We never did figure out what happened.
     
  12. Freeholder

    Freeholder Well-Known Member

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    Okay, worming him first was the RIGHT thing to do. He should have been wormed before now -- you can lose kids very quickly (within hours) to worm overload, and looking at where you live, I would expect to find a heavy worm load in your kids. Vicki (if she's reading I hope she'll chime in here) lives in the same general part of the world, and just said on another thread that she worms her kids every month for the first year -- I don't have to worm that often, but I live in a dry climate and at a high altitude.

    Second, give him some B complex (a shot --- do you have what you need to do that?); feed store should have the B complex and the needles. Third, Probios, or yogurt with active cultures squirted down his throat (I've fed it with a spoon, but it's hard!). Then keep a close eye on him. None of these are going to work instantly, it will take hours to a couple of days. Also, I would highly recommend you e-mail Vicki McGaugh, since she's in your part of the world, and is a respected commercial breeder with many years of experience who knows what she's doing! Get her recommendations! A lot of people on this list are well-meaning, but don't have much more experience than you do, so go to someone who knows what she's doing!

    Coccidiosis is a possibility; your feed store should have medication for that. Has he had his CD&T shots yet? And selenium could be a problem -- I don't know what kind of soils you have. I don't do selenium shots anymore, but I'm feeding free choice goat mineral with selenium in it, *and* feeding sunflower seeds, which are high in vitamin E (which does the same thing as selenium in the body -- more or less). If you think it might be a selenium deficiency, and don't have the BoSe handy, you can pop a Vit. E capsule into his mouth. If that is the problem you will see rapid improvement -- within hours.

    The first few years of keeping goats are a learning experience, and quite likely you will kill a few through ignorance. Most of us have, me included. I lost my best milker this year through not catching hypocalcemia in time (though in my defense, I'd only seen it once before, twenty years ago). Don't give up, but do go to *experienced* people for advice!

    Kathleen
     
  13. goatkid

    goatkid Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It's too bad your vet's office is treating you that way. My vet always returns my calls and assesses the situation by phone. Then he will either prescribe a course of treatment or have me bring the goat in. The first things I assess in a goat who seems lethargic is if it is eating and drinking, what it's feces look like and if it has a fever. I also check for nasal and eye discharge. I treat a goat who is off with Thiamin and B complex, and in some situations, an antibiotic. I also use Probios and soda.
    Here's an example. Last night I heard a goat bellering in the pen. It was one of my wethers in distress, and he'd done this before as a very young kid. I checked him for bloating and injury and gave him some bicarb. He was still off this morning, no longer crying but not eating or nursing. I gave him some thiamin, B complex and Biomycin. By late afternoon, he was back to normal. Tomorrow, he'll get more B vitamins as well as probios.
    I'd have to see your goat and have more info to tell you exactly howto treat him or if it's time for the vet. I agree with Kathleen to talk with someone experienced. I have my vet and also a friend who is a more experienced goat breeder to bounce things off of. I've been doing goats for 6 years now and have a bit more confidence to try thing out based on what I observe in my animals.
     
  14. kanpope

    kanpope Livin' the Dream

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    Just wanted to let you all know that we cannot figure out what the story is with the buckling. He does not have bloat. There is no evidence of that. He is eating, drinking, does not want baking soda, no physical signs, etc.
    Dh and I made a hypothesis...as I mentioned in my OP, he just reached sexual maturity and we have not removed him from the herd. He is constantly after the other goats wanting to, well, "you know". :p A couple of times this last week, I have seen the does get increasingly aggressive with him telling him to go away with a serious head butt. Well, dh and I think that he might have received a good head butt, perhaps to the side, and perhaps bruised a rib. He seems to walk gingerly but responds to him name and will get up, but then will lay back down. He is getting more noisy telling the other goats to hang out with him.
    We cannot pinpoint anything serious other than him wanting to take it easy. So, we will keep an eye on him and make sure he continues to get better.

    Thanks for all your information and advice!!!
     
  15. Sweet Goats

    Sweet Goats Cashmere goats

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    Kanpope, how the the little gy doing this morning? I hope all is fine with him.
     
  16. goatkid

    goatkid Well-Known Member Supporter

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    He would probably do better in a pen with small goats. Do you have a little wether or another small buckling you could pen him with? He may be laying down to avoid being butted by the bigger goats.
     
  17. TexCountryWoman

    TexCountryWoman Gig'em

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    He might be over heated. We are having a really bad heat wave right now, closing in on 40 days over 100 degrees...the hottest August on record...a drought compared to the dustbowl. If this buck is chasing does around in this heat, he may be close to stroking out. I nearly stroke-out when i go outside to sit and milk. No kidding, that buck may be the death of himself.

    Take his temp. Compare his temp to a couple of does. Take the bucks temp a couple of times and see if it appears to be a fever or just apparently high after increased activity. Some goat folk put koolaid in the water to encourage goats to drink. I never have, don't know if it's good or bad. I find that if I go out several times a day and refill and piddle around with the water containers, the goats get real interested and get up from the shade and come drink, even if they feel lazy. Is the buck hairy? Does he need a shave?

    I am just offereing another viewpoint other than worms, disease, sickness. You can see your goat, we can't.