Need advice please

Discussion in 'Goats' started by Maple Tree Farm, Dec 18, 2006.

  1. Maple Tree Farm

    Maple Tree Farm Active Member

    Messages:
    31
    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2006
    The 8 month old doe I have hasn't been putting any weight on one of her hind legs. She has been this way for a few days. She let's me run my hand down the leg and I can't feel anything really obvious. Tonight she could hardly stand up :Bawling: What should I do for her? :help: Thanks Luke
     
  2. Maple Tree Farm

    Maple Tree Farm Active Member

    Messages:
    31
    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2006
    also I went and bought safe-guard (yes I was told by a local breeder it was still good in this area) but I bought the horse kind. From what I have read here I don't need to 3x the dosage the same as the cattle safe guard, is this true? thanks
     

  3. Idahoe

    Idahoe Menagerie More~on

    Messages:
    2,045
    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2006
    Location:
    It won't stop raining
    I'd check out her hoof on the bad leg . . . wet weather can cause hoof rot. If it is hoof rot, she'll probably jerk her foot away when you palpate it, and the hoof will be extra warm to the touch.

    Other ideas would be she caught her foot in a hole and twisted it, or was butted and or was playing and twisted her leg. Because it's getting worse, not better, I'd check for hoof rot, tho.

    As far as treatment for it goes, I'll leave that up to the other goat virtuosi
    on this board :) . Haven't had it happen yet, so I'd hate to go further.
     
  4. Nancy_in_GA

    Nancy_in_GA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    455
    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2004
    Location:
    NE Georgia
    If you can rule out hoof problems, then does she put any weight on the leg at all, or does she carry it completely up off the ground when she moves around?

    For what it's worth, our vet said if the goat will not let the leg touch the ground at all, even when she is just standing still, it's more likely a fracture than a sprain. Don't know if this is always true, but turned out to be correct with one in our case.

    And he first checked very closely for any puncture wounds in case of internal infection in the leg.
     
  5. Maple Tree Farm

    Maple Tree Farm Active Member

    Messages:
    31
    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2006
    she will put some weight on it but only if she has to, I will ck her hoof out and see if it is ok. I glanced at it when I first noticed she wasn't using the leg but i didn't notice anything that looked wrong. I will ck it more closely and see if it has changed.
     
  6. Caprice Acres

    Caprice Acres AKA "mygoat" Staff Member Supporter

    Messages:
    12,668
    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    Location:
    MI
    Clean and trim the hooves. Look for splinters, cuts, and sore spots. before triming the hoof, dig out all the dirt/mud from the hoof, and check for white crumbly stuff, the hoof rot... Trust me, you'll smell it! If the rot doesn't look too bad, poke in her hoof with your finger everywhere inside and out, looking for sore spots. If she kicks, test the same spot over and over to make sure that's the spot, not just her kicking. Then bend the leg everywhich way and see if she hurts any way like that. That's what I do when a goat gets a sore leg. :) Good luck!@
     
  7. mary,tx

    mary,tx Well-Known Member Supporter

    Messages:
    4,629
    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2002
    Also check between the hooves, for little stones or thorns. Check the joints for swelling, and feel the bones.
    mary
     
  8. dragonfly65

    dragonfly65 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    748
    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2002
    Location:
    Texas
    We had a doe that was doing the same thing. I didn't see what was wrong until I got a fingernail brush and scrubbed the bottom of the hoof clean with soapy water and the brush. She had a large rose thorn stuck in the bottom of her hoof. I pulled the thorn, scrubbed real clean and put betadine on it. Did that every day for several days til she got wise to us and wouldn't let us catch her anymore.
     
  9. Maple Tree Farm

    Maple Tree Farm Active Member

    Messages:
    31
    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2006
    well this morning she couldn't stand up. It seems that her back end is giving up on her. I feel so bad. I ck her hoof closely and couldn't see anything wrong it.
    the leg that she wasn't using didn't have any marks on her that I could see.
     
  10. ozark_jewels

    ozark_jewels Well-Known Member Supporter

    Messages:
    9,246
    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2005
    Location:
    Missouri
    If her hind end is giving out....I would be thinking DEER WORM. If its deer worm, she needs Ivomec and now. Its also called menengial worm, and the terrible thing is that once they start showing damage....they don't usually ever lose the symptoms even if you manage to rid her of the deer worm. :shrug:
     
  11. Maple Tree Farm

    Maple Tree Farm Active Member

    Messages:
    31
    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2006
    I have a vet coming out this afternoon and by my description she said it sounded like menengial worm also. I just hope we can save the girl. Not the way I was hoping my first experience with goats would go. The pigs and chickens I have all seem to be doing great. :shrug:
     
  12. Sweet Goats

    Sweet Goats Cashmere goats

    Messages:
    2,023
    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2005
    Location:
    CO
    Good Luck with her, keep us posted on the outcome.
     
  13. Idahoe

    Idahoe Menagerie More~on

    Messages:
    2,045
    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2006
    Location:
    It won't stop raining
    Wow, so sorry for your goat if it is deer worm . . . let us know what the vet says, and if he/she tells you, how they treated it.
     
  14. Maple Tree Farm

    Maple Tree Farm Active Member

    Messages:
    31
    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2006
    yes she does think it is deer worm. She said she has started to see it more often in this area. She says the poor girl has only a 30 percent chance at this point. She left me 3 different shots to give her, one of which was Ivomec and the other 2 i will have to look at when i get home :Bawling: Has anyone else had a run in with deer worm and successfully rehab'd? I wondering what is in the best interest for her. I don't want her to suffer. I feel so bad I have only had them a few months and Mom and Baby have never been apart and now this happens to baby. Not the way I was hoping things would go.
     
  15. Idahoe

    Idahoe Menagerie More~on

    Messages:
    2,045
    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2006
    Location:
    It won't stop raining
    No, it isn't the way you want it to go . . . if you lose her, the worst pain will be yours and your family's. HOWEVER!! A 30% chance is what it is, do your best. You will at least know you've done your best no matter the outcome, and there are lots and lots of people here who know just exactly what you're going through.
     
  16. SilverVista

    SilverVista Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    588
    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2005
    Location:
    Oregon
    Sorry to hear the bad news. Do what you can, sometimes animals will amaze you with their will to survive!

    About the Safeguard wormer. I know you don't need it now for this situation, but for the future ----- the horse formula and the cow formula are the same. In fact, the last time I bought any, the box had the cow picture and label on one side and the horse picture and label on the other.
     
  17. Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians

    Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,817
    Joined:
    May 6, 2002
    Location:
    North of Houston TX
    It's passed via white tail deer. It doesn't harm the deer, and it isn't terminal in goats or horses (EPM), just that being down will bring on pnemonia, the stress will let blood sucking worms kill her, so it's the symptoms of the worm that kills her not the host.

    She needs a whooping dose of Ivermectin given subq this will kill the worm. It is a microscopic worm that because of a stress in your does life, her immunity has fallen and allowed a parastie to break through her blood brain barrier, fully mature after about 6 months in a goat. It then travels down the spinal cord and where ever it sets up housekeeping it swells the spinal cord, and the doe goes asleep from that point back. Once you kill the worm with the ivermectin the swelling has to go down...Use banamine and Dexamthazone. The banamine will also keep the doe from starting the next bizarre part of menengial worm, the self mutilating. The larve of the worm are so small they will burrow out through the hide, making it look like someone has put out cigaretts on your doe, she will then chew on these places she can reach. 1cc per 100 pounds of banamine, given for 3 days twice aday, same with the dexamethazone, days 1, 2, and 3...days 4, 5 and 6 you half those dosages, like all steroid use you never stop cold turkey. Have your vet give you SMPTZ Sulfamethazine tabs to give to her orally each day for cocci and bacterial pnemonia, also support her rumen, go get several kinds of new hay, perhaps peanuts and black oil sunflower seeds, no grain until she is 100%. It shouldn't hurt her eating and drinking keep everything close. AFter being a pin cushion for about 4 days she will get up and get away from you, even though she isn't walking, and you can see that she is on the mend.

    Our doe Amber came through this fine, she did not loose the pregnancy, even with the Dex, and she went on to win in the show ring. I did walk her deliberatly slow in the ring because when she walked fast or ran, you could see she obviously still had some problems with her rear end. Walking slow even judges could not tell. She did loose an incrediable amount of weight just being down for the couple of weeks until she was 100%.

    IF she won't drink than have the vet give you an IV set up of lactated ringers, just give it under the skin instead of IV...a very hand sized large bubble at the top of her shoulder, when it is about 1/2 way absorbed make another one on the other side. If you let her dehydrate, or don't treat oportunisity parasties during this time, she will not be able to rebuild her immune system to fight this, and will get pnemonia or anemic and die.

    Hope you have as good an outcome as I did. Vicki
     
  18. lgslgs

    lgslgs Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,429
    Joined:
    May 30, 2005
    Location:
    Southeast Ohio
    Yes, I have and so has Nancy in GA.

    Follow the shots plan exactly, and follow through for the full duration. And don't be surprised if you see visible improvement in the first few days.

    It's a serious disease. But yes, people have got goats though it.

    Our vet quotes about a one in five survival rate, but she also says that most of the owners she's dealt with just don't stick it out and give the full series of shots. It's not fun to pincushion your goat, but they handle it very well with a nice bowl of goat yummies for bait.

    We lost one goat to deer worm and it was confirmed with necropsy. We didn't know about the disease and she didn't get treatment until her legs were really weak. In hindsight, though, I think we may have put her down too soon.

    A week after that we had the vet out for a herd wellness check and she spotted it in Buddy. He was earlier into it, but further into it than we'll ever let a goat get again now that we know how to see it. He had the 10 day treatment and on the second day he looked a bit better. By day four we knew chances looked pretty good for him.

    We just had a third possible case of it. Buster has been lethargic and just a little stiff in a back leg. The vet was not positive it was deerworm, but after exam and blood test decided the best route was to treat it as if he had it. He had his 10 days of shots from 12-8 to 12-17. We are not convinced his was actually deer worm, but he's much stronger now and goes back for a check up later this week or next week. Whatever he had, he was weak in the limbs enough that something was going on. And now he's past whatever it was. We might know more when the vet sees him or we might just have got him past whatever he couldn't fight off on his own. Either way, I was scared for him two weeks ago and not scared for him now.

    Don't give up on your goat too quick. If I had to do it again with Opal, knowing what I know now I'd treat for at least the first few days to see if she'd turn the corner. Even if she had to live in the kitchen and be hoisted up and down with our help.




    We've have one more goat that we got as an orphan kid from another herd who's mother died from deer worm. She's healthy and strong, but has always had a little oddness in her gait, especially going down hill. No sign of weakness, though!



    One thing to watch with your doe - very important. If you get her through this you may not want to breed her. We've had a lot of mysterious kidding deaths in the area, and I think a lot are undiagnosed deerworm and does with just enough limb and spine weakness that kidding puts them over the edge. If your doe is going to be bred or kid, keep your vet very well involved and be prepared for possible birthing complications.


    Let us know how your girl is doing. I hope to hear really good news over the next few days.

    Lynda
     
  19. fishhead

    fishhead Well-Known Member Supporter

    Messages:
    15,301
    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2006
    Location:
    northcentral MN
    Does anyone use fowl (ducks, etc.) to control the snails and slugs that are hosts for the worm?

    My vet said (or I read somewhere) that the worm has to go through a snail or slug host in order to complete it's life cycle just like the trematodes that first infect snails and then fish on the way to the final bird host.
     
  20. Maple Tree Farm

    Maple Tree Farm Active Member

    Messages:
    31
    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2006
    The vet's directions sound a like like what Vicky said. I have her bedded down in some fresh hay with warm molasses water in front of her. She got her shots this morning. She wasn't to happy about that but hopefully we will have a christmas miracle and she will pull through. One question I have is that the vet has me giving her the ivomec and wanted me to give her safeguard also. Should I wait until the ivomec is done in 3 more days and then start her on the safeguard or do both at the same time?