Natural Gas-Sewer Gas-Swamp Gas-Methane Gas.....are they all the same

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Sourdough, Oct 10, 2017 at 9:37 AM.

  1. Sourdough

    Sourdough Well-Known Member

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    Are all the above named gas the same......??? Are they all heavier then air.....??? Any other gas that is the same as above......???
     
  2. Cabin Fever

    Cabin Fever Life NRA Member since 1976 Supporter

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    Sewer gas, swamp gas, and natural gas all contain methane gas. These gases are not 100% methane gas, they also contain some hydrogen sulfide gas and a few other minor gases.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2017 at 11:46 AM

  3. Cabin Fever

    Cabin Fever Life NRA Member since 1976 Supporter

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    To answer your other question (that I missed), these gases are lighter than air.
     
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  4. Sourdough

    Sourdough Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the information........I request any further clarification about the relative weight to air, as that is not consistent with animals, including human animal deaths from these gases. Is there some other factor involved in these deaths. For example the density of the gas.
     
  5. Cabin Fever

    Cabin Fever Life NRA Member since 1976 Supporter

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    These deaths are typically in confined spaces. Even though the gases may be lighter than air, the space has to be adequately ventilated to remove the gas, typically with fans.
     
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  6. Sourdough

    Sourdough Well-Known Member

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    Is there a way to test for the presents of these gasses..........other then using a flame........????
     
  7. Sourdough

    Sourdough Well-Known Member

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    Do you know how these gasses kill.......??? There are cases where natural gas killed all humans, all domestic animals, and wild animals in a valley, up to a certain elevation. I also know of cases where firemen have entered old log septic cribs, where children have fallen into. The first fireman passed out instantly, so another fireman jumped in to save him, and he also died. I have always assumed the gas filled the lungs, and the person would suffocate, unable to get fresh air into lungs that were full of the gas.
     
  8. NRA_guy

    NRA_guy Well-Known Member

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    Could be carbon dioxide or possibly sulfur dioxide?

    See the right column in this table.

    Any gas that is more dense than air (around 0.0752 lbm/ft^3) would settle in a valley or manhole if there was no air movement.

    http://wiki.gekgasifier.com/w/page/6123697/Densities of Common Gasses

    Safety folks use O2, H2S, CO, and combustible gas (lower explosive limit) sensing instruments to check confined spaces prior to and during human occupancy. OSHA requires it. The instruments are not cheap and the sensors have to be calibrated and replaced periodically.

    https://www.durawear.com/ventis-mx4...t5syEH16l_Kwv2oMhC4n7LP1KG04bp9hoC960QAvD_BwE

    Manholes will kill you especially if you are welding or cutting metal with a torch in one.
     
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  9. Sourdough

    Sourdough Well-Known Member

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  10. Skandi

    Skandi Well-Known Member

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    The one with all the deaths in a valley, do you mean that volcanic lake in Africa I think it was? That was carbon dioxide.
     
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  11. Steve_S

    Steve_S Well-Known Member

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    I would suggest that if you have doubts / concerns about the safety of you & yours along with animals then get things checked out ASAP. You don't mention in the thread WHY you are asking this, so....

    IF you are thinking you may have gas leaks or gas entering your structures, you can buy reasonably priced detectors and I would suggest that you do, even if just for peace of mind sake. See here at HomeDepot.com http://www.homedepot.com/b/Electrical-Fire-Safety-Combustible-Gas-Detectors/N-5yc1vZc6xq

    Other ways of detecting gas... a Canary ! but that would take a high concentration and in a dwelling you would be at severe risk by the time the canary falls over... In a mine shaft the density and lack of airflow did them in much faster and gave the miners a chance to get out... wasn't foolproof either.

    "Natural Gas" as it is, is 95% Methane post purification / filtering at which time some sulfur is added for scent & colouring the flame... Natural Gas Seeps that have been ignited by accident can burn with invisible flame (expect at night) and therefore additives to make the flame visible are important for safety reasons. It is lighter than air but given right atmospheric conditions it could potentially get held in hollows & valleys but would also require a tremendous amount of gas to reach harmful points. Natural Gas by it's very nature will dissipate into the air itself regardless, I have never heard of big deaths from it, even just checked and nope... The 2015 to late 2016 California Gas Leak from the holding tanks was enough to cause evacuations and such due to the huge volume of it and the risks of explosions, was an anomaly and as far as I am aware no deaths occurred from it.

    I feel I should point out, no one else has... Often people think of Natural Gas & Propane as the same / similar just because they are gaseous... they ARE NOT ! Propane is a Gas byproduct from petroleum refining, it is a heavier than air gas which means it will collect in low spots, buildings (floor level & basements) and where it cannot dissipate, it is also harmful to lung tissue and more... it will displace oxygen to a certain extent and we all know how volatile it can be... I've witnessed some nasty LPG explosions and wow...

    By the way.... people & animals dying in an entire valley story... it is fact and happened but NOT from Natural / Methane gas... C02 gas from volcanic activity below the surface. Similar events have happened over time and have been recorded & reported. One such write up: https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidb...t-dangerous-volcanic-phenomenon/#fce459f1247b

    Beware of Social Media and people reporting things based on wives tales sourced from incorrect & out of context information, which is often twisted up during the passing along between people. If someone tells you I Know this happened and such, check news reports, ask for a credible source "I just heard from so & so = worthless" where is it published, reported or....
     
  12. NRA_guy

    NRA_guy Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, we had 3 local firemen killed and another seriously burned about 40 years ago when they drove up to a white cloud of leaking propane gas.

    They were responding to a 911 call.

    It was the local propane distributor's giant propane tank, and it had sprung a leak.

    Their fire truck ignited the propane. It was really terrible.