My vet is a jerk....

Discussion in 'Goats' started by Arklady, Jul 26, 2006.

  1. Arklady

    Arklady Well-Known Member

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    Sometimes.... I just want to wring their neck! Our goat naomi has been having a problem with bloat hookworms and anemia. Now the anemia is doing good and she has less bloat but... now her Face is all swollen and gross and she refuses to get up at all I am at my wits end. And.... the vet won't see her with out a credit card or cash!!! I don't know what to do for her we fear she will die if she doesn't move or something. Plus she has lost alot of weight. She drinks and eats some but not enough. I just don't know what to do.

    :help:

    Arklady
     
  2. homebirtha

    homebirtha Well-Known Member

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    Ok, first off, why is he a jerk? Because he wants to get paid? I don't think that's too crazy.

    Have you wormed the goat? With what? Anemia and swollen jaw sounds like worm overload. Can you at least pay the vet to do a fecal and see what kind of worms you're dealing with.
     

  3. Faithful Heart

    Faithful Heart Well-Known Member

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    Our vets are like that here too. It's a shame they can't be like a county hospital where we can get care for them RIGHT NOW even though pay day is a week away.

    Do you have someone you can borrow money from? Or maybe one of those loan offices where you can put the title to your car up till pay day? I know not the greatest option, but sometimes the only ones. Many of those loan places will let you get $100 the first time used, with some sort of paycheck/payment guarantee. Or do you have something/anything you could pawn? A tv and vcr can usually get you $60-$100.

    Still not great options...... just trying to open your mind to the fact that you can do SOMETHING to help your very loved goat. Take strength, you DO have options (somehow), and there are people here to listen and give advice.
     
  4. GrannyG

    GrannyG Well-Known Member

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    Our vet just up and locked his gates, stated he was quitting, no more vet in our town, he is just going to raise cattle. Why? Because people couldn't pay their bills. We always paid him and feel the loss of his services.
     
  5. SDjulieinSC

    SDjulieinSC Well-Known Member

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    My vet will "hold" a check if you are a regular client. Often times he will even hold a few, like if the bill is $100 leave a check for $50 dated for your next pay day and another for $50 dated for your following pay day. You can't loose anything by asking...good luck.
     
  6. moosemaniac

    moosemaniac Well-Known Member

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    My vet bills me for a "house" call.

    Ruth
     
  7. Arklady

    Arklady Well-Known Member

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    We used to know vets that would work with people no matter how bad their situation was, and used to know vets that would wave certain fees for people who simply couldn't pay them but were really trying to do the best that they could. Our animals are very important to us and our money is extremely limited. Whatever stuff we could pawn wouldn't net us enough to pay even half of what the vet charges us. He's very expensive and one of the few vets in our area that deal with livestock. He knows our situation and just doesn't care. He won't take a check. From us he just wants paid right then because of our previous problems in the past. Yes, I understand where he's coming from in wanting to get paid, and I do want to pay him. But! He has charged me for things I DIDN'T ASK for. He has also blatently not helped us when we were desperate. I have lost animals due to his lack of caring and desire for money. That's why he's a jerk. He's supposed to like animals, but all he seems to see is dollar signs. We don't have long distance, don't even have an accessable car till after 4 pm. It is very hard on us, and he has no understanding whatsoever.

    As far as the goat goes, we have wormed her twice in the last 10 days. First time was orally with Ivermectin. The second time was under the skin with the same stuff. We don't have the money to get anything more. We bought a mineral block for her, a mineral salt lick, have been giving her some kind of iron supplement for the anemia. She hasn't made any attempt to get up in the last 4 days and barely acknowledges our presence when we go over and pet her. The vet has told us repeatedly that she would be fine, and she's not. That's why I'm so upset.

    Arklady
     
  8. homebirtha

    homebirtha Well-Known Member

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    So you have stiffed this vet in the past and now you're upset that he won't treat your animals "on credit"? It's nice and all when a vet is magnanimous enough to help people out in a bad situation. But if they've done it before and not gotten paid, I wouldn't blame them for telling those folks to find a new vet. Around here, most livestock vets aren't super-wealthy and would have trouble staying in business is they didn't get paid.

    I am not trying to be hurtful here, but I don't know how else to put this. If you don't have money to pay a vet, that's bad enough, but not even having enough money to buy the necessary meds is really irresponsible. Perhaps you should wait to have animals until you have the money necessary to care for them.

    From what you're described, my guess would be that the Ivermectin isn't working anymore. The worms have built up a resistance, or it's not the right kind of wormer for the parasites you have. You need to switch wormers, I would try Cydectin orally. But it's expensive. You also need to be giving something like Red Cell to build her iron back up. I'm sorry, but if you don't have the money and have no way to get it, perhaps you need to find a new home for your goats with someone who can at least afford to stock the basic meds necessary to keep animals.


     
  9. coso

    coso Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Amen to homebirtha. We had a vet that left because of people charging and not paying bills. If you can't afford to take care of animals you don't need them. My .02
     
  10. Arklady

    Arklady Well-Known Member

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    I have never stiffed my vet. But then you don't have to believe me either. That is your choice if you like. Personally I feel they over charge for somethings and it makes me mad. I know somethings they get by the 55 gallon barrels and its dirt cheap but they charge exorbidant prices for it. I know its life. Same as with you. You don't always get what you pay for. This guy is and has been a jerk since he bought the vet business from the guy who retired. Appearantly being treated fairly is an option they don't choose to excercise. I will go else where for my information. You guys can pm me if you have ANY valuable information. I used all my cushion I had to pay for what I got for my goat she will either die or not.

    Thanks anyways...

    Arklady
     
  11. huntingnappanee

    huntingnappanee Active Member

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    I work for a business that people say charges too much and I have problem collecting from people sometimes. This is a free country, a vet or any business person can set whatever terms they want for their services. Either you pay for it or you find another source. Most people have no idea about overhead cost, insurance, and the other expeses to run a business. Just because the vet pays $5.00 for 5 gal. of med. does not mean he can sell it for $1.10 per gal. Now that I got that off my chest. Your goat has worms that are causing bottle jaw. You need to worm it with a different class of wormer than you have been using. Make sure you give enough wormer. Too much is better than not enough as far as wormers are concerned.
     
  12. brierpatch1974

    brierpatch1974 Well-Known Member

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    My vet bills me for a "house" call. ? He should bill you. Its not free for him to drive out to your place. I don't blame any vet for wanting paid up front. Too many people never pay them or even try too.
    Ofcourse when I finish my bioloigy degree I am going to vet school. If I am nice enough to help some one out and they don't pay me I garuntee I will have lawers put leans against all their property until I get paid.. They will never be able to sell their land and kids won't inherit it either untill bills are paid... Sounds mean and cruel but vets have a right to be paid and make a living same as anyone else. Raising animals cost money if you cant pay for them don't raise them. Its that simple. I know it hurts honest people but now days their seem to be more crooks than honest people.


    B{
     
  13. Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians

    Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians Well-Known Member

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    Arklady, you could spend 1 hour searching worms, swelling in the throat (bottle jaw) on this site, it would have saved you the second injection of Ivermectin, it would have told you that you needed to switch wormers from Ivermectin to Cydectin (just because of where you live) and that a mineral block is not going to give your goat the copper she needs (because of your area) and you wouldn't have had to bother your vet. Bloat, anemia etc., is all us, we cause it...we feed goats incorrectly we harm their rumen flora, we leave them in too small of areas or feed them hay on the ground, or have feeders they and kids can get their feet into, feed them too short of grass, and we reparasitize them....goats would never live "naturally" in many of our farms! Open the gates and my goats would leave for the frozen north!

    If you don't have the money I will send you a syringe of cydectin (281-592-3039) you give it to her by mouth. But you have to fix the anemia which is causing the severe anemia. And unless she is your only goat, you whole herd has worms, not just one goat. Much more and your does liver will be completely ruined. IF you had anemia this severe you would be in the hospital on IVs, your goat is laying out in a hot barn...huge difference. There are a few things every goat person needs to have around always....lactated ringers in an IV bag is one, you simply don't give it IV you put it under the skin and make a large bubble high up on the shoulder, replacing another bubble on the other side until she is up on her own. pipevet.com Less than $5 You will have to temp her 10 times a day with koolaid or gatoraide water....switch between warm and cold water, do everything you can to get her to eat and drink. Get the molassas out of her grain. Quit switching her diet around. If all you can afford is oats and grass hay than feed that to her every day. Switching to better feed some of the time, or giving treats like handfuls of chicken feed, rabbitt feed, scratch or corn, or reading something on the internet and adding it....takes different bacteria in her gut to handle than what she is used to, so she bloats, milks poorly and looks awful.....why it's so important to take food the goat is used to and slowly switch them when you purchase them.

    Call me and get the Cydectin. Get her on a good diet and keep her there. Do everything you would do for yourself if you were anemic, iron, green things to eat, lots of fluids, and she has no energy to get up..........make her, but in the cool of the evening or she can die of heat stroke.

    I am lucky, I have a great vet, but I treat her that way, and I taught her how to treat me, and how to treat my goats. We are responsible for our animals. Vicki
     
  14. Arklady

    Arklady Well-Known Member

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    I understand everyone's point of view, and I'm not saying that this vet doesn't deserve to make a living. I have never said that. I likewise never said that I didn't pay my vet. I have also not written down my life story, and I was instantly accused of being a bad person with my animals. A vet is required by law to allow people to see their facility. Because ours says "hospital" instead of clinic, they have told us that we are not allowed back there. They have also charged me for services I didn't ask for and didn't need and then forced me to pay for it. Example, I had a cat with some absessed teeth. I took her to the vet to have the teeth removed. He removed all of her teeth but one and then did a dental on the one tooth and charged me $85 for it. $85 to clean and polish ONE TOOTH. I told him to go ahead and pull it because she was getting irritated by it and he refused. He refused to perform a service on MY CAT. What kind of vet is that, I ask you? My daughter also took in a conure to have her leg band removed because she kept getting caked food on it. She told them that she wanted to be with her bird. They refused to let her be with her bird. Her conure was completely stressed out all day over that. What kind of vet is this, I ask you? And you guys are telling me that the vet has the right to do this because he has a right to charge whatever he wants? He charges almost $150 to spay a cat in heat. I can go to a vet an hour away and get the same job done for less than $40. I have had animals die because this vet even refused to answer my questions. I have explained that I don't have a car and just need to know what I can do to keep an animal alive until I can take it in, and he just gives me this runaround "Sorry, can't help you." story all the time.

    Every person has the right to own animals. It is this country that has suddenly decided that if you can't give them sterling living conditions that they don't deserve to have an animals. My daughter has dealt with people who were poor and still had animals. She has heard from those people that their dog or cat or bird was the only thing keeping them from going insane from their hard life. Who are you people to tell someone else what they can and cannot have? If your life suddenly went down the crap shoot would you just get rid of all of your animals because you suddenly couldn't care for them perfectly? Would you just get rid of your "best friend" because you couldn't care for it, be it a horse, dog or whatever? Farm life has never been easy for anyone and we are doing the best we can with the animals that we can afford. Bad things just spring up out of nowhere sometimes and it's usually when we are the brokest.

    My goat never had a problem, not one, until she had babies. The little ones are doing great, but she has suffered because we were told to keep her penned up and to treat her all these special ways for the babies. We had to keep her penned up because our dogs thought the babies were snacks. So to protect them, we did what we had to. We brought her what she usually ate on her own, even if it took going out there with a pair of hand scissors to cut the weeds ourselves. We had never ever had a problem with worms until she had her babies. We were going to worm her when we found out she was pregnant and we waited. We knew she needed it, but we HAD to wait. Maybe we fell down on our job, maybe we didn't do everything we could. We have talked to the people in our area and we have done everything they told us to no effect. This was a place we thought we could go to get some real help. So far I've gotten two posts that seemed genuinely helpful. The rest were posts on how bad of an animal owner I was.

    Thank you, Vicki for your post. I did research this site as best I could. I just didn't know what to look for. I read several threads. I would love to call you even if it was just to talk, but I don't have long distance. And it is true, I can't afford Cydectin. It's $87 for a 12 oz bottle in this area. There's no way I could justify that cost when it's almost half of a week's pay just for that. I had heard a lot of good things about Ivermectin. That's why I bought it, and it was hard to do that. And now here I am with a bottle still 95% full and being told that it's worthless. That's the kind of stuff that drives a poor person insane. It's not that we can't afford to care for our animals. It's the products that we are told good things about UNTIL we buy them and then we're told "the truth" and are stuck with wasted money.

    I really care about my animals, and I do everything as best I can for them to keep them healthy. This year has been particularly harsh on everyone, so I'm not feeling entirely the lone wolf in this instance. But if all you guys want to do is slander someone on their methods of care, then keep your .02 to yourself. I don't want to hear it. I already know what you're going to say. As far as the rest of you that still seem to care, thank you for your posts, and I am still trying very hard to do my best with my goat. She's a good goat, a good mom, and I really don't want to lose her.

    Arklady
     
  15. ozark_jewels

    ozark_jewels Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Don't know if your vet will do it, but if we only need a couple doses of something that comes in a *large* bottle, our vet will draw up the amount we need and sell it to us that way. :shrug:
    Like Vicki said, your doe needs Cydectin and it *can* be used on pregnant does with no side effects. So you know next time, if you have a wormy pregnant doe, you can worm her with Cydectin. The worms attacked your doe while she was stressed from the kidding and they have taken over. If she is this bad, then the kids need wormed as well. Since the doe has worms who are immune to the Ivermectin class of wormers, the kids will also. Sorry this is happening to your doe. Is there a goat person anywhere in the area who would let you borrow some Cydectin?? Do you have any Vitamin B??
     
  16. Arklady

    Arklady Well-Known Member

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    We were given a B12 shot for her, which we gave her right away, but aside from that, no I don't have anything on hand, Ozark. He also gave me some Lixotinic and told me to give her 5 cc a day, which I've been doing as well.

    Arklady
     
  17. Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians

    Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians Well-Known Member

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    Up the Lixotonic, it's alot like the Red Cell I would use, to 3 times a day until at least the signs of swelling go down, which will also tell you her liver is doing better. Leave her babies in the stall away from the dogs and let her out to browse, or in the case of rain (hay or cut her browse) (I am thinking of starting an ARK tommorrow!) Does rarely have to be wormed in pregnancy if they were wormed before they are bred, just something about being bred that most goats are stronger immune wise, unlike humans. But the hormonal surge of kidding, and the worms know this, they know the stress and activate their babies who were arrested all winter, to become activated, they suckblood and your nearly egg free goat on fecal at 4 months pregnant is dieing from anemia and blood soaked diarrhea the week after she kids. Worming the day they kid and monthly wormings of the kids until they are weaned and growing well, are more important than ever with our southern humidty.

    Good care, and a clean place to live has nothing to do with money. It is more about hard work.

    Purchasing drugs wormers and supplies local at feed stores and Tractor Supply type places will just cost you more money in the long run. There simply aren't better prices than jefferspet.com call 1-800-jeffers and get their catalogs sent to your house if you don't internet products. Sharon Miller at M&Supply (shoot that doesn't sound right is a goat owner and sells and shipps all goat things cheap and will sell you small portions of things go to dairygoatsplus.com and find her there. Good luck with your doe, she needs lots of good nursing for a very long time, don't even think of breeding her for several months. Vicki
     
  18. coso

    coso Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I live in southern MO and the Ivomec still works for me, I give 1cc/33 lb orally. I know it works because I do fecals. Some people I know in AR have switched to Cydectin though. Worms are causing the bottle jaw. It would take a little if she is severly anemic to make a difference also you probably need to give her another dose of ivomec 10 days after the first, might help. I would give the B12 every day for a while, and if you have any Probios give that to her too. I'd say all this is effecting her rumen too. Have you got any cattle people near by that you could by just buy a dose of Cydectin off of? Sorry if I judged to harshly, don't know your situation, but Iv'e seen situations where the person is better off and the animal is better off if they are draining your cash supply and not making anything off of them.
     
  19. Arklady

    Arklady Well-Known Member

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    If you don't have anything to take a fecal with, is there anyway to tell on sight if a goat is doing better after worming. The bloat has gone down considerably, but the bottle jaw has gotten worse in the last few days. Her stool was in clumps a few days ago, but now it looks like normal. The vet had suggested giving her yogurt as well, and I completely forgot about it until now, so I decided to try it and she drank it like it was gonna be stolen. I did try to move her and all she did was let out a weak and pathetic pain filled baa..and she didn't move, so, I don't know what to do there.

    Arklady
     
  20. farmergirl

    farmergirl Well-Known Member Supporter

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    We are regular clients of a local vet office, have been for about 3 years. They treat our horses, cats, dogs, sheep, goats, etc. and I've always paid in full at the time of service. A couple months back one of our barn kitties split her side open somehow and required anesthesia and suturing, bill was around $130.00 total. When my husband went to pick her up, he asked if they would hold a check for 3 DAYS until his paycheck went into our bank account. They were so rude and so awful to him, telling him, "Well, we'll do it this once, but in the future we expect payment in full at the time of service." Just to make him feel extra terrible, the receptionist told him, "Postdating checks is ILLEGAL!"
    Sure made me see them in a whole new light. We've paid them THOUSANDS of dollars over the last few years, and this is how they treat us?
    I've started taking alot of the livestock to a different vet who is much more accommodating. I guess the other vet would prefer that we left the cat to suffer til payday? It wasn't elective treatment, it was necessary due to an emergency.