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On the good side, at the restaurant yesterday I had no trouble refusing dessert: I was so stuffed that I felt bloated. On the bad side, the salads looked VERY good, but I knew when I ordered that adding a salad to my fish Diavolo would be more food than my stomach could hold.

I am pleased that I got out of the restaurant feeling full after eating only 600 calories (calorie counts were on the menu), but, darned it I LIKE to eat, and some things, like salad, my diet lists as freebies as long as I keep an eye on the dressing: Italian dressings are a yes but Green Goddess dressing (etc) should be measured

I had never had Diavolo sauce before and I liked it: I looked it up and it is wine-based with chopped onion, tomatos, oregano, garlic, hot pepper flakes to taste, etc. And then it is simmered for10-odd minutes to reduce it and get rid of the alcohol. There are several recipes for "Fra Diavolo" on-line and I might try to make it some day, especially as it was great for dipping in the garlic toast tat was part of the meal. Adding new recipes is one of the nicer parts of eating at a restaurant

On the good side, I did go to a restaurant for lunch and I did not (I was not able to) over indulge.
 

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An overweight woman I know tells me that her daughter eats virtually nothing but cannot lose weight because of her metabolism, she has a thyroid condition, etc.

I say BS, and I ask:

Did you ever see a fat Jewish survivor come out of the German concentration camps?

A fat American soldier coming out of the North Vietnam POW camps?

A fat North Korean (other than Kim Jong-un)?

A picture of a fat farmer (or a farmer's kids) in the latter days of the Great Depression?

Do you think all those folks were skinny because they had high metabolism and no thyroid issues?

Or do you think maybe they didn't eat much for a prolonged period of time?
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
An overweight woman I know tells me that her daughter eats virtually nothing but cannot lose weight because of her metabolism, she has a thyroid condition
As a retired RN, I can tell you that thyroid conditions are as real as cancer. A person who has a sluggish thyroid will gain weight even though her diet is low in calories. She will still lose weight if she has zero calories, but a person with a thyroid condition might stay plump even if she is eating half of what most people eat.

That being said, most thyroid conditions are dead easy to treat. So if that is true that she as a thyroid condition then why has it not been treated? One pill a day will restore her daughter's system to normal

I suspect that the lady has a distorted idea of how much food is usually eaten, which would explain her own weight condition
 

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An overweight woman I know tells me that her daughter eats virtually nothing but cannot lose weight because of her metabolism, she has a thyroid condition, etc.

I say BS, and I ask:

Did you ever see a fat Jewish survivor come out of the German concentration camps?

A fat American soldier coming out of the North Vietnam POW camps?

A fat North Korean (other than Kim Jong-un)?

A picture of a fat farmer (or a farmer's kids) in the latter days of the Great Depression?

Do you think all those folks were skinny because they had high metabolism and no thyroid issues?

Or do you think maybe they didn't eat much for a prolonged period of time?
While I expect the woman's daughter is actually eating more than she's admitting or realizes, I'm not 100% sure about your examples. My thinking is that individuals with serious thyroid issues are more likely to have died in the concentration camp, POW camp, North Korea or during the Great Depression so you would not have seen them coming out fat or thin.
 

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Don't let "good enough" be the enemy of perfect.
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As a retired RN, I can tell you that thyroid conditions are as real as cancer. A person who has a sluggish thyroid will gain weight even though her diet is low in calories. She will still lose weight if she has zero calories, but a person with a thyroid condition might stay plump even if she is eating half of what most people eat.

That being said, most thyroid conditions are dead easy to treat. So if that is true that she as a thyroid condition then why has it not been treated? One pill a day will restore her daughter's system to normal

I suspect that the lady has a distorted idea of how much food is usually eaten, which would explain her own weight condition
Yeah. I lose count, but she has had 3 or 4 surgeries (including stomach stapling and fat removal from legs and abdomin area). She has been to numerous doctors (works in the medical community) and takes meds for T2 and T3 or something that supposedly affects her thyroid.

But what I see in places like Walmart tells me that Americans simply eat too much.

I was raised poor out in the rural country. Only 2 neighbors were deemed fat---and today they would not be noticed.

My whole 12 years in public school, there were only 1 or 2 students who we considered "fat". And again, they would not stand out in Walmart today.

And we ate fatty food: bacon, syrup on buttered biscuits, corn bread, a pie or cookies occasionally, vegetables cooked with meat, drank sweet tea and whole milk, etc. We just didn't have giant helpings, few second helpings, and no between meal snacks.

Look at a school yearbook from the 1950s or early 1960s and compare the kids to what you see now.

Times have been great over the past 60 years, but I think the US is evolving into a less plentiful nation and people will find out that they can live on less food, work harder, and do without many of the luxuries that today's folks think are life's essentials.

I worry about my grandchildren's future . . .
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I was not the one who used the concentration camp as an example. People cannot live on no food at all, but, some people with a very sluggish thyroids might gain weight on 1200 calories a day.

Diagnosis is a simple blood test away, and the test is very often done when your doc orders your usual blood test.

AND, one reason that the USA is fat is because of the low-fat diets the USDA was so very fond of. As you pointed out, when you were growing up people were eating fatty meats and staying slender, however, the old food pyramid frowned on that greatly and encouraged people to stop eating fat. For some people that was NOT a good move

However the high-carb diet that the USDA was so fond of will be digested and used up in just 4 hours and then people are hungry again. It is VERY easy to over eat when it is 4 PM, you are hungry, and your dinner is not until 6.

And I do NOT worry for my grandchildren, because people are now aware that the entire nation does not do well on only one diet. For every person who does well on a high-grain diet, there is another person who will gain weight and still feel starved on that same diet. Especially as we get older and our internal organs are no longer as efficient as they were when we were teens
 

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How many fat wild animals have you seen other than animals that fatten up for long hibernation period? IMHO, when you are eating a healthy diet, your appetite should be self regulating to maintain healthy body weight. Shouldnt need famine or Nazi concentration camp to maintain healthy weight, shouldnt really have to think about it at all, should be self regulating.

As pointed out the crazy "low fat" diets encouraged people to an excessive high carb diet. For me anyway, carbs dont trigger the "hey stupid, you're full, stop eating", after the T2, I ate to control blood sugar, meaning low carbs, didnt pay any attention to calories and weight came off as a side benefit. I simply felt full sooner and thus ate less.. And doesnt have to be high processed sugary carbs either. They dont fatten livestock for market on ice cream and candy bars, its good ole whole grain goodness combined with confinement thus limit on exercise. Current generations of humans seem to be fattening themselves for market this traditional way. High carb diet and limited exercise. Not just an American thing, except for few remaining small subsistance ag communities, majority of humans worldwide live urban and buy their food. High carb, grain based foods the most economical. The more money, the more food they can buy, may not have money for lot luxuries, but more cheap quality food is something affordable. Even in countries with surplus low wage labor, lot work has become mechanized. No ditch diggers, they use backhoe like everybody else.
 

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Around here, the fattest people are ignorant folks with lots of children, and they pay for most of their food with SNAP cards (welfare credit cards).

The people who are in the best physical condition are intelligent folks who have middle-to-upper income.

Cue the "Yeah. Because cheap food is more fattening" video in 3-2-1 . . .
 

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My wife has many patients with a thyroid condition. Fewer than half of them will follow her advice, and treat the condition. If you have a thyroid condition, and know that you have the condition, and refuse to treat the condition. Then it is your fault if you are fat. "I have a thyroid condition". Is not an excuse for being over weight. It is a treatable condition. If you treat your thyroid condition, and eat like a teenage football team. You are going to be over weight, and it will be your fault.

Why do millions of Americans take drugs they don't need, and refuse to take drugs that will actually do them some good?
 

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Around here, the fattest people are ignorant folks with lots of children, and they pay for most of their food with SNAP cards (welfare credit cards).

The people who are in the best physical condition are intelligent folks who have middle-to-upper income.

Cue the "Yeah. Because cheap food is more fattening" video in 3-2-1 . . .
Having the money to hire that personal fitness trainer and pay for liposuction and stomach stapling and all that helps too I am sure. Upper income people arent necessarily smarter, just can afford to hire people "to take care of that". Even the middle class can afford a gym membership... Live in a slum and just going for a walk can get you shot.

But yea with most people in urban environment, all physical activity is the makedo hampster wheel variety. Urban/suburban lifestyle doesnt require actual physical labor.
 

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My wife has many patients with a thyroid condition. Fewer than half of them will follow her advice, and treat the condition. If you have a thyroid condition, and know that you have the condition, and refuse to treat the condition. Then it is your fault if you are fat. "I have a thyroid condition". Is not an excuse for being over weight. It is a treatable condition. If you treat your thyroid condition, and eat like a teenage football team. You are going to be over weight, and it will be your fault.

Why do millions of Americans take drugs they don't need, and refuse to take drugs that will actually do them some good?
Politics?
 

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Not quite politics, I would say. Right now the subject is medical non-compliance. For why people are non-compliant I would simply say how many of us ALWAYS do everything that the doc says? I don't, though I MOSTLY do

I am pretty certain all of us has not taken the doctors advice at LEAST once.
 

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I agree with HermitJohn when he says " High carb, grain based foods the most economical."
Highly processed, unhealthy foods that come in a box usually have a lot of corn, soy, or sugar...or a combination of those three. And...all three are heavily subsidized.
 
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Highly processed, unhealthy foods that come in a box usually have a lot of corn, soy, or sugar...or a combination of those three. And...all three are heavily subsidized.
Large farmers are HEAVILY subsidized, which I believe is why our food is so much cheaper than in Canada. So, yes, that is probably why less prosperous peope eat too many carbs

My Mom, on a limited budget, would make her spagetti sauce with a half pound of hamburger for the 8 of us. But because we are more prosperous I will make tonight's spagetti sauce with a full pound of 90% lean hamburger for the 2 of us. My Mom could not afford to do that, but I can and it will keep both my weight and my blood sugar down

More prosperous people can easiy afford to eat a diet that supports our health
 

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Large farmers are HEAVILY subsidized, which I believe is why our food is so much cheaper than in Canada. So, yes, that is probably why less prosperous peope eat too many carbs.
It's not the carbs in the processed junk that these people are eating. It's the processed junk that these people are eating. You've seen their shopping carts. Not overflowing with fresh produce, are they? It's processed junk and soda.
 
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It's not the carbs in the processed junk that these people are eating. It's the processed junk that these people are eating. You've seen their shopping carts. Not overflowing with fresh produce, are they? It's processed junk and soda.
Yeah. Frozen fish sticks is cheaper than making your own, an on-sale box of chocolate cake mix is cheaper than making your own, etc.
 

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Yeah. Frozen fish sticks is cheaper than making your own, an on-sale box of chocolate cake mix is cheaper than making your own, etc.
True. It is cheaper and easier. But, those are also poor dietary choices, altogether. That's why these people are fat.
 
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It's not the carbs in the processed junk that these people are eating. It's the processed junk that these people are eating. You've seen their shopping carts. Not overflowing with fresh produce, are they? It's processed junk and soda.
So farmers fatten livestock on processed junk food? Buy Twinkies and Snickers bars by the semi load to fatten their hogs for market? Thats gotta be some expensive meat! Seriously?

Or do you think humans are immune from getting fat on plentiful supply of grain (and grain derived foods) combined with low physical activity? That only livestock is susceptible to such? And humans only get fat from some mystery chemical added by food processors? Most of chemicals in junk food are preservatives and taste enhancers and grain derived starchy fillers cause grain is cheap and profitable. And dont forget plentiful HFCS in everything, again grain derived, cheap and helps the consumer to reach their "bliss point"... Look on back of carton cottage cheese. The high end expensive version has like three ingredients. The el cheapo version reads like a chemical textbook glossary and covers huge amount space on back of the container. INCLUDING MODIFIED FOOD STARCH (pure carbs) Yep just plain ole cottage cheese...... not something you would expect to contain significant carbs. The devil is always in the details.

And have you priced fresh (well raw produce, very little of it is actually "fresh") lately. I can tell you after the type2 diabetes and eliminating grain and eating boatload fresh low carb produce that my grocery bill went way up. Interesting, fresh produce is probably healthiest thing you can eat, but is least subsidized. Notice all these guys giving talks on eating healthy implying you need grass fed beef, and organic produce. I assume they own stock in Whole Paycheck grocery store chain cause dont see them clamoring for govt subsidies on produce so all can eat that way. Sky high rents mean not lot left over for most to go to Whole Paycheck.

In real world non-wealthy people buy food that they can afford most of that will fill their belly and preferably food that is quick. That usually means not the optimum for health.

Its also metabolism. I ate a heavily grain + legume diet for decades. Yep cooking whole grains with a pressure cooker. No evil corporate food processor involved. I got into my 40s and the pounds started accumulating. Part of it was undiagnosed Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever that the 30% or so of us that dont get the spots or actual fever, its like Lyme and just progressive debilitating disease. So less energy = less activity, but not the only one that middle age slowed metabolism. Its not just one thing. The devil is always in the details (plural). So whole grain based diet (living alone, I didnt buy or make sugary goodies) combined with low physical activity sure fattened me up and I will give it credit for the T2 diabetes since I never had sweet tooth, nor was there T2 in the family. Body sees digestible non-fiber carbs same, whether grain or sugar. Tries to convert and store the unused blood glucose as visceral fat. Read up on non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. Most (probably all) T2 diabetics have some stage of this. When liver stops doing its share, the pancreas is overburdened trying to do the whole job regulating blood glucose.
 
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